Okay, I sort of have to get this off my chest right now...because I'm really taken aback a...

It's on-par with other quasi-anonymous, unmoderated places on the internet, better than some probably because it has lower traffic. There are forums which are a lot more hostile - Youtube, Reddit, the comment sections of any major news outlet, for example - but I don't know any unmoderated space on the internet where posters do not have their opinions attacked. (It happens in moderated spaces too, but mods delete the comments.)

Complaining actively makes the problem worse. It encourages the trolling because the trolls can see they are getting a reaction. Engaging with the posters who are commenting in good faith and ignoring those who aren't is the only way to improve the content to noise ratio.

It has been worse. It could be better, but it has a kind of flow to it. People do try to keep it somewhat decent. I have noticed no cussing, direct bitch slapping or ass calling. That is an improvement. People here can be a bit to passionate in their long held head canons. the team Takaba and Fei lovers are strong defenders . Trolls come and go, so do these hot times. If you see it getting to hot in here start a new conversation thread. Some times that works.

People tend to get defensive about things they're passionate about.

VF generates a lot of passion-- positive, negative, love & hate. It means readers are fully engaged in the story... which indicates the author must be doing a pretty good job.

If it was bad or boring, nobody would say much about it, and this manga would've died long ago.

I think we've all been subject to trolls at one point or another in our Viewfinder foruming adventures - it's definitely not a nice feeling and you do wonder why some people are major douchebags when it comes to making a point. But you just gotta remember, there are all sorts of people in the world. Some are assholes. Some are nice! :D

Best to skim over the stuff one here that is clearly aimed to cause a reaction or purposefully upset or insult, the psychology behind trolling is fascinating though lol. I suppose everyone needs a hobby...

Urgh, typo. Sorry!

A wise person posted a comment in another forum that stated, "Sure, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you have to expect to be told to f*ck off if you intrude on someone else's pleasure." This makes total sense. However, I think this can lead to friction too.

Suppose some plot point or character in a manga that annoys me. I like the story a lot and I don't want to apply the simple "Don't like, don't read" rule, but I want to vent about this one thing. It's probably because I liked the story that I want to talk about the issue. Suppose someone else really likes the same thing that bothers me. My venting intrudes on their pleasure and when I judge that action or character, they feel judged. Of course they tell me to F- off--and of course I answer, because I see my position as valid.

It's nice if we can step back and just see it as a difference of opinion, but it's also natural to dig in and argue. I think humor helps, but some humor can be seen as snarky and may make it worse. I don't know. I try to add a lot of "in my opinion" and "as I see it" phrases, but part of me feels like that is a step back from just sating what I think flat out and trusting others to know it is my opinion.

If we were face to face and could hear the tone, probably it would not be an issue. If we were the only Yoai fans we knew in our town, we'd probably be friends even if one disliked Mikhail (or whomever) and another shipped him with everybody. It would be a friendly bickering resolved over the beverage of your choice, and we'd be united against all those who hate yaoi in the first place.

Regarding the sentiment you quoted, I find that neither wise nor does it make sense to me. There is a reason that so many people who used to be regulars here have no wandered off to seek greener pastures. In other words: They have joined groups where they can in fact express their opinion freely, without being dissed, attacked or told to eff off. They can also express their opinion and people will let it be, just like that, without a big discussion and people trying to challenge their views or likes. I am in a group, for example, where we have people who ship AxA, AxF, FxA, AxF, MxF and what not. You will not find a single fight there. Every ship is fine. Every opinion counts. No opinion is questioned. But there is a respect there that I am missing here.

You say that it is natural to dig and argue. And you say that you like to add "in my opinion" and "as I see it" a lot (basically Psychology 101 - the golden roles of communication and cooperation yada yada). It may be in your nature to dig and argue, but that is not the case for everyone else, AG. I have to admit I have a problem with that when it is in REPLY to someone. Why can't we let person A express their preference for AxA and let person B express a preference for, say AxF? Let both opinions BE and not REPLY to a person saying that you don't see it that way or start questioning its validity (which is something you very often do). I like your presence here and I love your posts, but I find I don't want to get into discussions with you, AG, because I often experience you as someone who strongly pushes her opinions on others and likes to have the last word on the matter. And the fact that you word it with "I think/feel" or "in my opinion" does not change that. You may experience it as a fruitful discussion. I find it tiresome and unneccessary when all I want is for my opinion to accepted as my very own, very subjective, very personal view that as I will accept yours and those of others. Sometimes I would just wish people would simply let everyone's opinion be. You don't have to get into a discussion or a dig all the time to try and convince people of your point of view (which, again, you do a lot). Sometimes I would just like to express an opinion here without having it disected, put into question and discussed by you and others. Eventually, I found I cannot do that here (for aforementioned reasons), which is why I no longer post opionions or likes here and do so elsewhere. I wish it wasn't the case, but sadly, it is. In other words: You were writing about what, in your opinion, seems to be the problem here, but to be honest, AG: You are part of the problem. As I said: I like your thoughtfulness and your posts, but sometimes, someone just wants to voice an opinion without going to a four-hour 45 post discussion with you. And I did not write this to stir the pot in any way, but as someone who USED to be a regular here and no longer is, it has been on my mind for a while. And as I said, this is just me voicing my opinion - so I won't join you in a discussion on that one either. :)

I agree with every single word in the last comment posted in this topic. I am also someone who used to be very active on here in the past, but I've long since given up on this board because I don't like what's become of it and the quality of some of the people here. Yes, we survived the Troll War from a couple of years ago, but this board has now been taken over by certain individuals who fancy themselves as being judge and jury, while posing as rational and mild-mannered fans. Someone said recently (in a completely unrelated topic) that on this board, you're either with VF fans or against them. Agreed. I've noticed that you have to tread very carefully so as not to upset the ''leaders''. Months ago, someone posted something about Yamane Ayano updating her works, but not in a way that they insulted YA or used any derogatory words, merely stating a fact and airing out a grievance. I was shocked to see a person I used to hold in high regard violently lash out with a virulent, verbally abusive post, in which the OP was demeaned to the point that the conclusion reached was that the OP was a nobody, doing nothing with his/her life and the subtext was that they were beneath Yamane Ayano simply because they were not a mangaka, and had no right to speak of YA if it was not to praise her.

That is a textbook case of bullying. Most shocking and frankly, disgusting, was that it came from a person who has always been viewed as an example of how civil and rational a VF fan should be on this page. A person that in the past positioned themselves against trolls and bullies ultimately became the bully. The good people that used to post here are no more, and although there are a number of people here that are articulate, make relevant and intriguing points, I do believe it's ultimately gone to their heads. They seem to have assumed this position of moderators, and although there have been praises that VF fans have mellowed out and are more polite in their debates, to me it's all an illusion. There is an air of oppression on this board, and people bend over backwards so as not to upset with their comments because they don't want to be shunned from this community by the ''judges''. Bluntly put, there is a lot of ass kissing going on here and there is something fundamentally wrong at the core of this Mangago community. To try to rationalize and explain the abusive language being used here in an attempt to make it seem somewhat okay and normal by saying that VF fans are passionate, that's just the way thay are, they mean no harm, is despicable and it just breeds online violence. It is the reason why VF fans have gotten such a bad rep since the start of THIS community, do not generalize, there are many that do not agree with your way of enforcing things here under a guise of keeping things civil. There’s a whole other world out there when it comes to fans of this manga.

The word bully implies an imbalance of power. While some people may not like to debate or be questioned, there is no Lleadership" or power game at play. Everyone is on equal footing. I've never even seen people gang up on a poster the way I have at other forums. No one "enforces" anything except by answering. No one can "shun" you--the most they can do is talk back. To call it "abusive" or "online violence" is hyperbole at best. The most it is may be annoying or less accepting than you would prefer.

Hope you didn't think you were going to be able to say all of that here without being told how very wrong you are.