that is why this manga is classified as porn... not really some form of literature. fap material if you may, excuse for the boorish word.
i mean i'm a wide reader and had my share of award-winning works and eroticas but black sun is just not one of them. this manga is outstanding as PWP smut and it is great in it's own field, so don't expect it to be some work of art. ╮(￣▽￣)╭
and i agree! the setting is really interesting so it's a shame that the mangaka decided to go to the porn route.
and oh, if you haven't yet, try reading the chinese novel war prisoner too.
oh i read that, and it awesome (≧∀≦)
I can accept PWP smut and I read plenty myself, what I can't accept is the underplaying of such a serious topic like rape and abuse. PWP stories are not a subset of rape, and shouldn't be in any case. Unless the author is trying to make a strong statement about rape/abuse, I don't see why it should be portrayed in such a way that indirectly makes light of such an issue. Every yaoi manga can be classified as porn indeed, but I don't see how you need to heavily shortchange plot for porn either, although I have absolutely no complaints about that if any author wishes to do so.
It's strange when you call this PWP because that's the impression I had when I initially started on this manga, but the more I read it, the more I felt like the author is actually attempting to make some semblance of a plot out of a premise that's already so deeply rooted in smut as evidenced from how she began introducing all these court hierarchy, while involving even more warfare and political struggles at the same time. That's why I find it hard to critique this work solely as the apparent 'PWP' work as it is because I refuse to overlook the efforts the author has put into trying to flesh out this work into something a bit more plot-driven, albeit the result was subpar and at worst redundant--and that's why I'm critiquing it in this manner.
And yes, I've already read War Prisoner in Chinese :-)
That anon was me by the way hahaha. To make things clear, I'm not expecting it to be a form of art, my review just points out areas in which the manga could have performed much better in. The way you talk about PWP works is that they can't be works of art in their own right because of the genre they're in. Not all PWP works have to be works of art or just pure physicality--all I'm asking for in any PWP story, or any story in fact, is that the authors tell the stories and the issues that they're portraying in a responsible and cogent manner. Every author should uphold that obligation, or else we would have boundless amounts of stories like FSOG polluting the literature industry.
yes, haha. i know there is a semblance of plot in black sun (i did describe it as such in one of my earlier replies down the comments section) but with all the plotholes that i do not want to stress over, i just stopped worrying about it altogether and just classified it as PWP in my mind and enjoyed the smut. which i think is what the author emphasized more. It really is a shame but well. ╮(￣▽￣)╭
I'm not saying 'it cannot' be a work of art' just that this is yaoi we are talking about. i mean there are a few outstanding ones afterall. however, essentially, yaoi is more about gay porn flick not an erotica and i do appreciate that the author tried (but did take it further and resumed her smut) but it seems like it's a common thing for BL mangakas to do. (the meaning of fujoshi is not only for display.. it's literal.) And making light of rape in a yaoi manga is one of them for smut's sake. There are mangakas however that are more responsible and do a more realistic, morally upright creations but most stay in the shounen-ai arena. Unfortunately, this mangaka belongs to the former.
OMFG. "I hate rape stories but I read this the whole way through just so I could bitch about it." I'm so sick of these posts on mangago. Read the tags, people. If it bothers you, don't read it. If you start reading it and it still bothers you, stop. It's not for you. That's fine. Other people like it. That's fine, too. This manga doesn't have to work for everyone. Not every story has to be like Captive Prince. How boring would that be? Just stop, FTLOG.
wow i personally agree with laurent here so i don't see why all of you are jumping on them just because you like the atory yourself??? they did nothing but presented perfectly logical arguments and all you all are doing are just bitching by accepting rape and abuse because 'it's fer the pornzz and fap yay so who gives a fuck because it's not real so it must be ok' get over yourselves. just bc this manga bothers people so the only choice they have to stop reading it??? just bc this manga doesn't work for people so they cannot criticize it bc YOU like it???? lol get over yourself if everyone thought in the same childish way as you do then there would be no critics left. wanting a story to be responsible in its portrayal doesn't mean u want it to be like captive prince??? although i have no idea what the book is about LOL
"just bc this manga bothers people so the only choice they have to stop reading it???: Answer: No. I question why people who have a problem with this kind of manga would read it in the first place. It's like if you know shellfish is going to send you into anaphylactic shock but you eat shrimp anyway just so you can have the pleasure of freaking out. Why do this to yourself? Just stay away.
And this isn't about literary criticism but a dangerous attitude towards the needs of primarily female readers. For example, you characterizing rape-trope fiction as "pornzz and fap" material is not only a puerile simplification but a callous dismissal of the critical importance and function of the ravishment fantasy, in particular for women, who already have to bear so much censure regarding their sexuality and their own psychological needs. So I say again, just stop.
So you do understand that this manga is not going to work for everyone. That said, the rape scene in this manga deterred many people from totally liking this story and that makes sense because rape is a heinous crime and should not be a 'ravishment fantasy'. Just no. The story is fine aside from that rape scene and people have the right to point that fact out. You like it, fine. But don't silence the people who doesn't and dismiss their opinion as 'bitching'.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the ravishment fantasy and a weird inability to separate the real world from fiction. Fortunately, those who are served by the ravishment fantasy also possess the ability to discern the difference between fantasy and the real world. You do not have the right to tell them that a fantasy that is important to their psychological needs is wrong. The ravishment fantasy has been around since day one and has nothing to do with rape. It fulfills an important and healthy function, particularly in the sexuality of a sigifnicant number of women. That's why posts like these are not just opinions but potentially damaging as they seek to make people feel bad about something that they have no reason to feel bad about. Attempts to suppress the ravishment fantasy because of some misguided notions about rape culture actually bows to rape culture in the same way suggesting women are "asking for it" because they wear short skirts and should be corrected. Educate yourself before judging others.
Again, if it bothers you, if it deters you, why the fuck are you reading it? Why this need to make other people feel wrong for liking it? Would it kill you to just back out quietly and go find something that won't offend you? No, you have to stomp all over everyone else first just because you lack the ability to understand their needs.
staph, thank you so much for your excellent response!!!
I don't see how, in any parts of my review, I have undermined anyone for liking this story. I would have viewed this story differently if it was purely written to be taken as a PWP story—if it was so, I wouldn't have censured the portrayal of rape/abuse because in such a story, such portrayals would have been purely fantasy, and purely intended for people to indulge in their sexual fantasies. Criticizing porn for doing what it's supposed to do is just stupid, and that's not the intention of my review in any case.
What I'm not comfortable with, and this is an entirely personal opinion of my own, is that this story has veered from being PWP, into something that's more story-driven instead of staying true to its nature. The disconnection between the raw, carnal sexuality of the rape and abuse and the elements of actual story-telling is what disconcerted me. To give you an example, it would be akin to someone watching porn heavily based on sexual fantasies alone, and then all of a sudden, the porn video shifts into something that's actually engaging with plot and world-building. Again, like what Takame mentioned earlier, this manga is entirely fine on its own as a PWP story, but as a story alone, it has pertinent problems. In Black Sun's case, it would have been entirely alright for me to read about the depictions of rape and abuse if it continued being solely for porn, but it has become difficult to classify it as PWP because of this.
I'm shooting myself in the foot for saying this, but the truth is, it is impossible for fantasies to remain purely as fantasies, given enough exposure, even the most dangerous and immoral fantasies can become accepted and normalized in one's mind, even if one may think they're impervious to being affected. This is supported by a lot research articles if you just look it up. You might think I'm condemning the entire porn industry at this point, but I'm not. All I'm saying is that such trivial portrayals of rape and abuse can become potentially damaging to one's psychogical mind, as much as it can serve as fodder for sexual fantasies—and that's why it would be irresponsible for the author to handle the issue like she had in this story because it can serve to subconsciously perpetuate dangerous notions as acceptable.
why dont you educate yourself??? you're arguing that just because most women have so-called 'ravishment fantasies', which is honesty just a fancier term for 'rape fantasies', so therefore indulgement in these shouldn't be judged or criticised bc it's NATURAL??? did u know there are so many problematic desires that we humans have that should never be indulged in bc it can hurt not just yoursef but also people around you??? r u saying that men who are found to have some desire to rape at some instance in their lives, should not be 'suppressing' their desires and instead allow it to feed on fantasies bc it's NATURAL??? jesus christ
You made laugh soo hard. Have you read the manga AT ALL? Did you not see how the seme humiliated Leonard and had sex with him despite not consenting AT ALL? Is that how ravishment fantasy works out for you? A random dude just coming and fucking you? That's rape. And to tell me that I have no right to tell someone that their fantasy is wrong, honey, that's how serial killers are made. Should we encourage everyone to please, satisfy your needs to be ravished and to ravish someone? No. Not all human needs are to be satisfied, atleast not by forcing someone to have sex with them. Simply put, your fucking ravishment fantasy is rape. Search it on Google and that's the first result.
And, why the fuck are we reading it? The same with movie critics. Everyone knows every Transformer movies by Michael Bay is gonna suck but they all still watch it not to bitch on it but to try to see more than those violent explosions. That maybe there's more to it than that and that's exactly why some are turned off by the rape in this manga (which is the sane thing to do, honestly) and yet continued it because we have the right to see the rest for ourselves.
I've read Captive Prince already and I whole heartedly agree with you on your comment!
a) these stories have TAGS - learn how to READ them and avoid those you don't like b) about every 2nd story in the Yaoi section has rape or non-con in it. If you have an issue with that, you should find yourself a new playground since this clearly isn't the right one for you c) you have ZERO understanding of what rape fantasies in Asian culture are all about, but come here with your American uptight, twisted knicker attitude and think you can preach to people about their desires or fantasies and about how they are "not normal"? How DARE you. This has NOTHING to do with real life and if you don't understand the difference between a manga rape fantasy and a real life desire to actually go and rape somebody, then get the bloody fuck out of this site. If you don't know that rape in Asian manga culture is a metaphor for something completely different, then do your damn homework and educate yourself about it because coming here again, rambling on about things that you know NOTHING about! IDIOT!
I'm a full-blooded Asian and I'm ashamed that you're trying so hard to defend rape fantasies at all? Don't spout shit about how rape in an Asian manga is a metaphor 'for something Americans' don't understand about. Metaphor?? Are you kidding me? I majored in Literature and it annoys me to no end when people like you go around throwing names of literary devices when they clearly do not apply. Pray tell, what exactly does this metaphor symbolise? I await your enlightenment.
Jesus fucking christ, y'all trying so hard to find excuses to defend what's obviously problematic and wrong.
The setting in this story was quite interesting, and there are many elements of the story which I've thoroughly enjoyed, but the main quip I have for this work is that the issue of rape and abuse—which Leonard had faced not just from France himself, but from his lover Jamal as well—had been glossed over and portrayed in a very trivial and dismissive manner. One may argue that Leonard has eventually come to love Jamal despite all the previous attempts of non-consensual sex, but this does not nullify the damaging effects of what Leonard had to face regarding such humiliation and unprecendented vulnerability. One may also argue that Leonard did not outright push away or blatantly express his disapproval towards it, but it's clear that he has demonstrated some degree of reluctance, and this resistance is acknowledged but NOT respected by Jamal—and that itself is non-consensual sex. No matter how much one would like to sugarcoat it, it's rape. Pure and simple. And this was the main factor that had prevented me from enjoying this story and from giving it a higher rating.
Furthermore, there is an instance where Leonard refers to himself as a 'doll' in a self-deprecating manner, and it's ironic because there are certainly parts of the story where he seems to be fulfilling that exact function of a doll—to be objectified. Neither rape nor abuse is a laughing matter, and there was really a lot of room for the author expand on Leonard's inner monologue and his progression through the grueling stages of coping and recovery. This would have served to solidify Leonard's character much more instead of inadvertently portraying him as this lifeless character who's more often than not, a damsel in distress. Yes, there are points in the story where Leonard has exemplified that he has mettle and courage, but all these instances are very quickly undermined through the way how all of his attempts are so easily thwarted by his foes. What's even more unfortunate is that most of such displays always end in shameful debauchery, with him on the receiving end.
Also, I mentioned earlier that the setting is quite intriguing, however, this story would have been a much stronger piece if there was a more stark distinction drawn between the cultures, practices, and traditions of Leonard's country and Jamal's country. Sure, there may have been some establishing of the differing religious faiths and the general sexual promiscuity in Jamal's country vs a restrictive lack of sexual autonomy in Leonard's, however, the details are rather vague and superficially discussed at best. It's a shame because doing so would have heightened the uniqueness of the backdrop, cemented the world-building and provided a more immersive reading experience. Overall, I felt that the author placed so much emphasis on fleshing out Jamal as this byronic, mysterious yet noble slave-turned-general, that the character development of Leonard on the other hand, was compromised and unfairly stunted, with a lot potential begging to be explored.
P.S. If you enjoyed this but felt that there were some areas in the story that could've been executed better, I really, really recommend you to read the Captive Prince trilogy, it's one of my favorite, FAVORITE books. There was a comment posted before me that mentioned how this manga reminded them of Captive Prince too, and this may have caused maybe some of you to feel some sort of wariness towards starting this novel as you might think that some of the troublesome issues prevalent in this story is present in the books too, BUT I wholly assure you that sensitive topics like slavery and abuse are handled with finesse and sensibility; the romance is arduously slow-burn but the culmination of sexual tension and just FEELINGS alone is so, so worth it. The political intrigue, tactical warfare, devious machinations, double-crossing, triple-crossing, kingships, and swordplay are an absolute pleasure to read and relish in. (I sound like I'm a salesperson promoting some dubious product, BUT IT'S REALLY GOOD).