BUCKLE IN KIDDOS. THIS IS GONNA BE A LONG ONE.

Ok, I'll throw in my two cents. Though I can hardly speak for others since I only hated what happened in the chapter, but didn't hate the chapter itself/Koogi/the series/etc.
I guess people who clinged to the hope that Bum would somehow avoid following Sangwoo on this dark path would have liked the story to give them way more consistent and way more obvious foreshadowing scenes (aka prior warning) that things would turn this way...
In other words, they are more used to other types of story-telling where life-altering turning points (and specially the bad ones) are made so obvious they even slap you in the face before they actually happen.

I agree with what you have said and I don't know why people suddenly start hating Koogi and Yoonbum due to what he did. I mean he killed now but he already had the potential to kill in my opinion since he doesn't seem to be like an impulsive killer like Sangwoo. I mean he was always unstable due to his abusive past and the way the world treated him, but due to his submissive and quiet personality he needed something to trigger this irrational behaviour. Which was Jieun saying go die in a aggressive manner.

Not everyone with an abusive past and quiet personalities turns into a killer. More than his abusive past, what was a hundred times more foreshadowing was the obsessive way he devoted hours and days to cracking the code of Sangwoo's front door, and the reason why he did it. There's a reason why that paper with number combinations is the logo of this manhwa: it shows mind that tends to single-mindedly indulge in its own fantasies whle "giving up" on reality.

I don't really understand why there are people hating on Koogi. It's just a story and she's a terrific storyteller to have as all enthralled into reading this crazy story. And hating Bum and accusing him of being more dangerous than Sangwoo is, is just crazy. Almost everybody called on the both of them killing the woman together and though it was Bum who stabbed, albeit 12x, it was Sangwoo who somehow created the opportunity for Bum to do so. I wouldn't put it past him researching on Bum's background just to create that opportunity.

But honestly, I don't really expect this story to have a happy ending. It'll probably end like Disrespectful Bitch or Killer Stall. So let's just enjoy(?) the ride ╮(￣▽￣)╭

I agree. I think those are people who are hoping for character redemption. I honestly think that the continuous dark themes is has people clinging on to. Bum killing Jieun is character progress. However fucked up that may sound, it is. We have been given a backstory of Bum's life. His life before Sangwoo really wasnt the best. It might probably been worse compared to when he met Sangwoo. Now before hate comments I'll share my thoughts why I think Bum I think so:

We can conclude from what Koogi had given us that Bum has had a shit life. We can even infer (keyword: INFER) that he is mentally ill (borderline personality disorder, google it up) He became attracted to Sangwoo because Sangwoo saved Bum from being raped. That gesture was probably the first kind gesture Bum has received in a very long time. Bum is affection-deprived. Now, Sangwoo turned out to be a lunatic serial killer. BUT EVEN KNOWING that Bum seems to still have these strong feelings for Sangwoo. We have seen Bum wanting to get away from those feelings in chaoter 16, I think. (Where he broke down and cried) But then, we had confirmed that his strong feelings for Sangwoo still. And this situation all further down towards the story. And apart from Bum's feelings, we can infer that Sangwoo had started developing a bond (?) With Yoonbum. I personally think Sangwoo is becoming ATTACHED to Yoonbum. (Lima syndome, perhaps?) He's become quite affectionate with him starting particulary when Sangwoo opened up to Yoonbum about his past, and vice versa. And this continued on. Sangwoo has been particularly affectionate after they killed the man in the basement, this continues until chapter 19, his actions and dialogue during the whole Jieun-killing imply that he really couldn't careless about the girl. He has formed a somewhat attachment to Bum because I think Sangwoo is also affection deprived. We were (in my opinion) given a glance at Sangwoo's way of thinking during the Jieun-killing arc. Sangwoo has particular distaste for people like Jieun, and talked about inner beauty and stuff. In contrast to Jieun, Bum has accepted (?) Sangwoo despite knowing his flaws. This particular attribute of Bum has been confirmed in CHAPTER 19 when he told the girl that he didn't care about her bruises or that she was raped. And that he still liked her despite those flaws. I think that's what made Sangwoo attracted to Bum. There is relationship development between the two of them, though it might not be healthy. Bum has been deprived of affection and Sangwoo is giving him just that. And after the progression in Chapter 19, their bond is stronger than before.

Sangwoo and Bum are characters that were given to us embedded with FLAWS. We have been made aware of that since chapter 1. It's been known that Sangwoo and Yoonbum are more or less mentally ill. Their bond as characters is, in my opinion, now stronger than before. There will be more murders, I think (of course??? "KILLING stalking" right??) Murder will is embedded in this series. And now, it's become some sort of a bonding moment between the two main characters. If this is uncomfortable to the people who complain in ch19, then THEY BEST stop reading KS. Because there will be more of "that" in the future.

Intellectual responses are what I wil entertain, if ever anyone replies to this.

I am sorry to dosappoint you but I think (based on what Koogi has shown us so far) that the story is not about redemption of Sangwoo or Bum. I would honestly be disappointed if the story would take that route. It's a tough path for Bum, his life before Sangwoo wasn't exactly the best; he was poor he was being raped by his uncle, we can also infer that he's suicidal. We can infer that Sangwoo is some sort of saving grace for Bum because of the affection he is giving Bum. (Refer to the other reply I gave the original commenter of this topic for a more indepth view of Sangwoo's "affection")

Recently, in chapter 19, we can confirm that Bum craves affection. To the point wherein he steals things from the person he likes as substitute for the affection he no longer recieves from the girl.

Bum is not a mentally healthy person, we can infer that. He is flawed from the start too. And his relationship with Sangwoo, in a way, (and vice versa) makes up for those unpleasantries because they make eachother feel better. (In a fucked up way) If what you are hoping for is that Bum would have some sort of miraculous heroism in this series, then I think you will become disappointed in the succeeding chapters to come.

This series is not for the weak of heart. And yes, I do understand where you are coming from. But you see, some people enjoy it the way it is. Because of its complexity and uniqueness.

I think Chapter 19 was brilliant, and the whole series is a masterpiece. The story line is unique and not cliche. This series is NOT for the weak of heart. I personally enjoy it just the way it is, because I am openminded in understanding characters and why they have behaved the way they did.

I personally think Bum killing Jieun is character development. He has been through a lot, even before he met Sangwoo. And now, Sangwoo has introduced a way (yes, it's fucked up because that method is murder) for Bum to have some sort of an "outlet". It's character develppment for themselves, albeit it not being a healthy one. But that is what makes this whole series so interesting, I guess.

I agree with you 100%!!!

When I say I hated what happened in chapter 19, it's because it makes me sad, not because I think, like some haters seem to do, that it should've gone any other way. I mean, even if I dislike the way it turned out just now ('cause it's sad seeing a person irreversibly destroy themselves along with their few chances at a normal life) I wouldn't wish for the author to change it. That's because I still can find another reason to remain interested: I want to know what will happen 'cause I think the one Bum will really have to turn the tables on, in the end, is Sangwoo.

Therefore, as far as "redemption" goes, I think the story's far from over: that could still happen in a number of ways, like for example if Bum makes them exchange roles and starts imprisoning Sangwoo in the basement, or if he suddenly gets a moment of "clarity" and decides to kill Sangwoo (and probably then himself) or to try and save one of the victims, or whatever..
OR the story could get even darker... But either way, I still doubt Bum will give in and become the perfect, mindless follower Sangwoo wants, 'cause we've been shown he has more self-awareness than we give him credit for, and questions things even in spite of himself. That may mean that he won't make things so easy for Sangwoo, even if doesn't go and outright redeem himself. I still want to see what kind of trouble Bum will give to Sangwoo, to show him he can't control him as fully as he thinks...

I actually do think now, based on what we're shown in chapter 19, that there is a stronger possiblity of Sangwoo dying by the hands of Bum. If anything, that's probably the ideal ending for te series for me. (If we could take that last scene in ch19 as some sort of foreshadowing perhaps?)

I don't believe that he would "suddenly" gets a moment "clarity" and kill Sangwoo, if that happens it would be a huge let down, imo. It would be out of character of Bum and of the series if that happened out of the blue. I think it would happen gradually, like there would be some pychotic brrakdowns here and there.

Bum as of the moment is a bit more stable, yes. But not completely, even from the start (with all the stalking and shit) We were shown a scene (ch 15) wherein he was "questioning" his affection for Sangwoo, he knew what Sangwoo was, yet in the end (ch16) he still craved for Sangwoo. Sangwoo as of the moment is the one giving him the affection he craved for in a long time (albeit very unhealthy). So I don't think he will have a sudden change of heart, no, that will happen gradually.

As of imprisoning Sangwoo, I have a bit of a doubt there. Sangwoo has the advantage when it comes to physicality and strength. I think he would lure Sangwoo in a different way, Bum might even learn to manipulate him? Idk. Anyway, I dont see this series ending with Bum having a clean mind. As far as redemption goes, they are eachothers (as fucked up as it sounds)

Yeah, Sangwoo gives him "affection", but at the same time he's super controlling and abusive, and even makes up lame reasons to get angry (like when he claimed Bum had intentionally fallen on top of his fat dude friend, back at the diner). Even when he was being "indulging" and pretended to let Bum make his own choices, Bum knew he was only testing him to see if he'd dare defy his control. Even when he was acting "affectionate", he was also implying veiled threats to Bum's safety if he were to do anything to "ruin things"...
I don't think Bum's debut as a killer will magically turn Sangwoo into a more well-adjusted lover who would give Bum more room to breathe, and I think Sangwoo's been fooling, manipulating and controlling people around him for so long, it would not be easy for Bum to out-manipulate him for any length of time (besides, that'd make Sangwoo lose his one "charm" as a character: his unbeaten unpredictability). Yet the story would also lose some of its appeal if Bum were to completely give in and become a permanent pushover. So what's left, in my opinon, is for Bum to become passive-aggressive in defense of the last remains of his"freedom".

Please tell me when I ever said that this "affection" they give to each other is a healthy one? As I have said before, and will say again now: it's. all. fucked. up. BUT ITS WHAT they are able to give eachother. And they accept it because in a way they, judging their past and background, it's something that makes them feel "better". (I quote better because i'm using it loosely)I cannot stress enough that they are mentally ill. (As I said before read my original reply to the creator of tgis topic of this thread) The beauty of this series their dysfunctional dynamic. That's why the story continues to be that way.

You can never erase the manipulative nature of Sangwoo. I doubt his parents were role models when it comes to affection (i.e. abusive father) But even so, even if there is malice or ill intentions behind the affection, Bum receives and accepts it regardless. Because he wants it, regardless of the circumstances. We can see that in Ch16, when he went and sucked sangwoos dick. He had a moment of doubt and cried in the previous chapter, but then we were an insight of his other thoughts about Sangwoo's whole performance. We can infer, when it comes to Sangwoo, lines get distorted for Bum. Affection from Sangwoo? We can interpret it as something good Bum receives for a long while. (Judging by Bums shitty past and all)

Anyway, this what I wrote in the previous comment, because idk you seemed to have skimmed past it:

"Sangwoo as of the moment is the one giving him the affection he craved for in a long time (albeit very unhealthy)". (Keyword: unhealthy)

AND this is what you wrote: (i read the whole thing but this line is what choose to elaborate on)

" Even when he was acting "affectionate", he was also implying veiled threats to Bum's safety if he were to do anything to "ruin things" (I honetly think that this is foreshadowing of Jieuns future fuck up in the performance, Koogi hinting insights that Sangwoo was really actually pissed at her fuck up)

The affection I was pertaining to ranges in different colors. From their bonding moment in Sangwoo's room when Bum was sick, to that finger bite in chapter 19. And everything in between, however fucked up it may be.

That "affection" that you continue to "quote", is something they have both been deprived of in a long time. I never implied anything that that affection exclusively without the dark themes. THEY ARE A DYSFUNTIONAL PAIR. So whatever lovey-dovey ideals you have, probably doesnt apply to mentally unstable captor-captive pair, hm?

They will never be normal, their relationship will never be normal, their circumstances? Nver normal. But that kind of dysfunctionality is what makes them work. They leech from each other. It's not healthy but given their circumstances, it works for them. And with what we were given as an outcome in chapter 19, it only spices things up. Because it works for their dynamic.

I hope you get what I mean from the start. Though I do appreciate this intellectual debate with you. Others just use profanities.

Sangwoo also acted "affectionate" towards Ji Eun, that's why I don't want to assume to know at this point what Sangwoo is really thinking... I mean, I'd WANT him to love and care for Bum, but he also acted kind of "affectionate" to the girl just in order to manipulate her, so, you can say in a way, I'm retaining some cautious skepticism about his real feelings just in case we're in for some disapointment in the love department. I don't want to make too many assumptions and imagine Sangwoo is already, completely, totally inlove with Bum and not just messing with him in order to use him in some way or another later. Like I said, I would LOVE for the first scenario to be the case, but I'm not the author of this story so I won't pressume to know what Koogi will or should do with this story.

Quotes don't always mean disagreement, or even that you're quoting what someone else said, they can also mean you're using the term loosely, for lack of a better word because even though a certain word is not 100% suitable to describe something, there's no better word for it that you can come up with can use at that moment. In other words, it's not that I disagree that Sangwoo is giving him some affection, it's just that I don't know what to call it without completely misnaming it. Like you said, it is unhealthy so it's not "affection" in the traditional sense... AND at times I'm even doubting whether Sangwoo is only pretending to act affectionate towards Bum in order to better manipulate him (in which case it would not be affection per se, either, but merely the pretense of affection).

I'd also like them to be happy together, in whatever messed up way they can (preferably without any more dead bodies) and even if for that to happen they had to end up as cellmates in prison or something (in prison, I guess, but still reasonably "happy" cause they managed to stay together?). But I don't like to get ahead of myself and assume Sangwoo won't pull another one over us readers, which is possble given the way he is: a serial killer who's managed to fool everyone and stay under the radar for so long...

Context is important. And I have to disagree with you. Personally, I don't equate the level of affection Sangwoo gives his victims at the same level of affection he gives Bum. He uses sex as means to lure his victims. (Also, the affection he gave Jieun is so cringy, and he was doing it under false pretenses. The affection he gives Bum is the one more likely bordering to 'genuine'

We certainly don't know what he is thinking, that's what context is for. I have presented examples of chapters as basis, my assumpyions arent unfounded. And we totally don't know if Sangwoo is inlove with Bum, we could only infer since Koogi has yet to give us something that's in Sangwoo's point of view (although wouldnt that be amazing?) However if we read into context, we can assume that he has developed special feelings for Bum. "Romantic" feelings seems to put it lightly. Because there is something paradoxical about Sangwoo, and those feelings he developed seem to have more depth to him than what we all could infer. (insert chapter19)

So yea, given the circumstances of Sangwoo, his past and all that. His affection to Bum, based on what we were given (and dont forget context), is most probably genuine. Of not genuine, the level of it certainly outweighs what he gives to others. The level of affection is not the same and I can infer that because of context analysis.

If you read my comment carefully, I quoted my own text because you seemed to not grasp what I said in my earlier comment BECAUSE I WANTED TO ELABORATE ON THE WORD "UNHEALTHY". Because you seemed to have skipped that since you continued to elaborate on how Sangwoo is "abusive and controlling" when you replied to that comment. So yea. I do hope you knwo that I didn't disagree with you also but I thought you should know.

Like you said "it is not affection in a TRADITIONAL sense." They are dysfunctional, like I said. But it's affection regardless. And it's what Bum receives. And he accepts it and had begin to crave for, because he has been deprived of that for so long. I can infer this due to context we were given about Bum's past. They will never be the couple with the white picketed fence and happy ever afters. They have their own kind of happiness, although that happiness might equate to them being on a murder spree or leeching affection from eachother, but happiness regardless. And THAT'S what I have been implying since my first comment.

The problem with that is Bum's resignation to forfeit sanity and any chance at a "normal" life, and to embrace this... this whatever he has with Sangwoo, is very recent ... so recent I think it's too early to tell whether he'll fully embrace it or not.
You see, the with Sangwoo's controlling and abusive attitude, and the reason I brought it up, was not, in my opinion, that it was turning his affection into sth unhealthy, but that until recently, Bum did NOT seem to like it. All in all, don't forget he's actually tried to escape TWICE. The first time he tried to escape, when Sangwoo left him alone in the house, he ultimately decided that receiving Sangwoo's affection did not make up for everything else, and tried to leave... EVEN IF IT MEANT GOING BACK TO HIS UNCLE.
So no, even though he was struggling with it, I don't think right then Bum was at all like like the battered wife that forgives anything her abusive husband does to her with justifications like "he hits me sometimes, but he's awfuly sweet and affectionate the rest", or "he does that sometimes, but he really loves me", or "it was my fault because I deserved it". Back then, Bum did not seem to have completely given up on chances of escaping and having a normal life. Back then, Bum wasn't acting ready at all to accept Sangwoo with all his flaws...
Granted, he wasn't ready to give up on his love for him, either, so he was struggling. But the point remains that, in the end, he DID end up opening that door, and he DID end up yelling out for help as Sangwoo was chasing him.
The second time, during Ji Eun and Sangwoo's performance, he tried to get people to help him. I think it's that second attempt's failure what seems to have hit him hard (with or without god reason), and into accepting this unhealthy affection he has with Sangwoo.
And my point is, I don't think we can say yet that Bum will never again use whatever rationality he had back then that made him open that door on that first escape attempt, and use it enough to realize that Sangwoo manipulated him into killing a girl that he probably wouldn't have even met, if it had not been for him... A girl who at the end of the day has got very little to do with the one that hurt him back in high school.... I don't think Bum would be blind enough not to realize even that.

By the way... how about we save the rather indulgent term "unhealthy affection" for cases of jealous lovers, perhaps even abusive lovers, and not for crazy bastards that strive to turn their lovers into actual serial killers? 'Cause what Sangwoo's doing is not just "unhealthy", it's downright psychotic... even worse than serial killers who marry and keep their double lives a secret from their spouses and such.

Please read what I said in my previous comment, you seem to go circling back and not grasp anything I say. And please do give citations of the particulars that you are talking about and giving disagreement to, because I can distinctly recall addressing this issue. It's reeeeeally kinda tiring when you seem to ignore certain statements of mine.

I don't get why you keep on circling, my man. I distinctly remember saying to you and acknowledging his attempts of escape, did I not? And after that I DID mention that when it comes to Sangwoo, the lines for Bum gets distorted? I did. I NEVER said (read my previous comments if you have to) that the possibility of Bum wanting to escape is gone. What I'm trying to say FROM THE START is that their happiness (future or present), as far as both of their dysfunctional characters are concerned, can be sought from each other. I never mentioned he never needed any saving. It's just that he found some sort of fucked up sanctuary with sangwoo (despite the occasional cloudiness of decision), which sangwoo in turn indulges.

"he problem with that is Bum's resignation to forfeit sanity and any chance at a "normal" life, and to embrace this" <--- I don't think Bum is forfeiting anything.

"so recent I think it's too early to tell whether he'll fully embrace it or not." <--- oh my goooosh what I have been pointing out. Never said he's has fully embraced it, I INFERRED that whatever happens between them would work because in a way both of them are dysfunctional.

"You see, the with Sangwoo's controlling and abusive attitude, and the reason I brought it up, was not, in my opinion, that it was turning his affection into sth unhealthy, but that until recently, Bum did NOT seem to like it." And I keep telling you, the affection I'm talking about is embedded along the abuse and control. It's not the nice affection normal people give each other. But it's what Sangwoo and Bum have with each other.

"All in all, don't forget he's actually tried to escape TWICE." Didn't forget. I remember even mentioning it to you multiple times.

"Granted, he wasn't ready to give up on his love for him, either, so he was struggling. But the point remains that, in the end, he DID end up opening that door, and he DID end up yelling out for help as Sangwoo was chasing him. " <--- What he ENDED UP doing is sucking Sangwoo's dick. We can imply that he stayed because the escape attempt has failed. But then, when they were at the cubicle of the bathroom, we were given insight to WHAT BUM WAS THINKING after chapter 15. It's tragic, of course, but that's what happened. Never implied that he didn't attempt to escape (because he did and duh we all know that), but just that in the end he still expressed his carving for Sangwoo, regardless. (Unhealthy, definitely)

"Bum was at all like like the battered wife that forgives anything her abusive husband does to her with justifications like "he hits me sometimes, but he's awfuly sweet and affectionate the rest", or "he does that sometimes, but he really loves me", or "it was my fault because I deserved it". " <--- He didn't forgive it. He probably never will. We have never seen any panel that he was making excuses for Sangwoo, right? Right.

" I think it's that second attempt's failure what seems to have hit him hard (with or without god reason), and into accepting this unhealthy affection he has with Sangwoo." Bum was the first one to express desire for Sangwoo. Sangwoo just reciprocated it during the middle of the series. So if Sangwoo expressed interest for Bum from the start he probably would have had. He had been welcome to his affections probably since their bonding moment in Sangwoo's room when Bum became sick.

"And my point is, I don't think we can say yet that Bum will never again use whatever rationality he had back then that made him open that door" <----- Neeeeever even implied that he wouldnt do that again, so I don't know where this is coming from.

The abuse in this whole series is a given, it's EMBEDDED with the bad stuff from the start. It's just that (fucked up) affection is inserted here and there. Dont get caught up with your wishful thinkings (what had you disappointed in Ch19 in the first place because you were hoping for Bum to have character redemption and not kill Jieun.) Don't mind my assertful tone, I'm just a bit triggered.

Why can't "unhealthy affection" be used for psychotic serial killers? Despite the level of severity of each of their cases, (i.e. "abusive lovers", "jealous lovers" etc.), do indulge me. FURTHER elaborate before I make any input because I find your statement lacking. And please make sure it's an intellectual response.

And you seem to imply that I excuse that "unhealthy" behavior. (from your previous posts) Again, read all my responses. Maybe then you'll get it.

"even worse than serial killers who marry and keep their double lives a secret from their spouses and such" ---> ????????????

One, I've just re-read your responses and you never said anything about his attempts to escape. You only made reference to lots of instances of cock sucking which, if taken place after his attempt to escape, can just as easily be taken as Bum's attempts to persuade Sangwoo of not killing him in revenge, or to convince himself the current situations couldn't be so dangerous since they were showing "affection" for each other (that's how Stockholm syndrome is supposed to begin, you know).
Two, ever heard the saying that "two wrongs doesn't equal a right"? Dysfunctional plus dysfunctional doesn't necessarily equal the best possible kind of love... Some lucky cases may happen, I guess, but it's definitely not a rule... Where on earth have you learned that idea? IN romantic psycho killer movies?
Three, OF COURSE a deranged killer who devotes so much effort into creating another killer is worse than a mere deranged killer, in the sense that he's not just killing people but ruining his partner's life. That's why someone like Charles Manson is in jail dispie not having killed anyone himself, because everyone understood that people who devote so much effort to creating killers can be just, or even more dangerous....
And four, if I need to explain why becoming a murderer is like giving up on any chances at a normal life, then I'm out of this discussion because you clearly lack some basic notions in order to make it worthwhile.

You keep mentioning Bum has a kind of sanctuary with Sangwoo, like what he had before that was worse. Sorry, but it was not. Before being imprisoned he could come and go as he pleased, without crutches, and he didn't need to pass any twisted tests of lotalty in order to be allowed to do so. And if Sangwoo's affection is such a sanctuary, how come he never gives Bum any pleasure? He always takes and doesn' give back, except to carve Bum into another criminal that can't report him to the police without getting himself arrested as well. It's a completely unequal relationship and if you think thee's any happiness in being used and manipulated like a dog, you seriously need to revise that.