Wait a minute, hold the fuck up. People are saying sunbae raped sun-hiwa I don't know his ...

Maybe because the comic he is drawing is based on their relationship...? I don't know, I haven't finished all the chapters yet.

It's because before they had sex, Sun Hwa first said no and tried to cross his legs. Sunbae pushed his legs open and kept touching him. They are counting the leg pushing and touching and licking and the unconsenting sexual contact as rape. It is at least a minor battery, and the penis touching and licking is sexual assault (which is broader than rape) or some lesser charge in many places. It is certainly moral wrong to keep going when someone says no. However, they are ignoring the fact that Sunbae then says he won't penetrate without consent and that Sun Hwa thinks about how it tingles, and if he should, and then thinks "I can't hold back anymore," and says, "okay," (giving consent to penetration).

Rape is sexual penetration without consent. Sun Hwa consented to penetration. Sunbae was wrong to keep touching and teasing Sun Hwa after Sun Hwa said no, but it was not rape because there was no penetration. Further complicating matters is that Sun Hwa then specifically gives consent out loud. He does this not because he is afraid, but because he feels really good and wants to have sex. It's not simple nor is Sun Hwa such a total victim, no matter how much of bastard Sunbae may turn out to be.

There is no way that's a rape. Sun hwa masturbated next to him loud and clear and the sunbae give a helping hand, and he agreed to it when the sunbae ask him if he could penetrated him. Its true that Sun hwa was saying No when Sun bae keep touching and licking him, but he is a MAN for GODSAKE, even a women could put up a better fight than that. that's the loopholes in most Yaoi with rape theme, rather than struggle and run for their dear life, all the victim only moaning NO No No while shaking their hips, even a women dont get wet while being raped. What do expect then when the reader didnt really mind when the rapist and the victim ended up together.

So saying "no" doesn't count because they enjoy sex? Also, women CAN get wet when raped. It's not like your body says, "Wait, this isn't consensual, so I shouldn't get an orgasm." That's not how it works. "He didn't put up a fight" is also bullshit reasoning. I'm not saying that he did or did not get raped, but your argument is flawed.

Yeah, only the agreement matters. Its true that in stories, especially erotica and romances, rape can play a different role than it does in real life and may be art of a ravishment trope, but it is still rape--just fictional rape as a eroticized or romanticized story element as oppressed to more realistic rape as a traumatic or sensationalized story element.

Neither physiological responses nor not fighting back equals consent. Consent means agreement.

part...opposed..sigh. I would be dangerous if I could type.

oh is that so. I heard a lot of news about women getting raped, how their vagina bleeding and getting torn off.

What I mean is if he really mean No, he could at least push him away, why did he just laying there and enjoy it? If really didnt want to have sex, he could make it Loud and Clear. oke imagine situation like this, someone make an advance at you, but you didnt want to at first, but he keep touching you while saying, are you sure you didnt want this then you feel good and aroused, so you just give in and enjoy it, then it count as rape?

I wonder how the police or the doctor can differentiate if it was rape or consentual sex from the physical evidence. there is no way words alone is enough as a proof..

thats what I'm saying, I read a lot yaoi, and the Uke always said to the seme in the middle of having sex 'No No, Dont, Stop, Dont touch me there' even though its mean the opposite.

In that case, Sun Hwa isnt Raped, he said 'Okay, sunbae'. Here's the link
http://www.mangago.me/read-manga/the_baker_on_the_first_floor/uu/the_baker_on_the_first_floor-chapter-13/12/

It depends on what the rapist does. Sometimes the rapist may cause tearing and bleeding, others may take the time to get a psychological response, and everyone's body is different in how it may react. Chances are the rapes you hear about on the news are the most brutal types of stranger rape that occur. Most cases of rape are 'acquaintance rape' where the rapist new and was at least somewhat trusted by the survivor, and sometimes those rapists use BS lines to justify what they did.

in real life, not only does no mean no, but a lack of response (words or acts) that indicate agreement means no too. Consent is absolutely necessary, and it must be affirmatively expressed either by words or by actions that indicate all parties want to have sex. By actions I don't mean not fighting back. I mean jumping on someone and putting his dick into you (assuming he has indicated he wants to). It must be clear consent. Only yes means yes.

physiological response. knew. I'd turn off auto-fill/auto correct, but then it only gets worse. Sorry.

PS Witness credibility plays a role in the "he said, she said" situations. Sometimes there is a pattern of occurrences or other evidence. But just because all rapes cannot be proven in court does not mean they are not rapes.

Yes, in this case "okay" means consent. It's just the other factors that are irrelevant.

And it is important to notice the difference between fictional rape or rape fantasies and any real life situation. Many rapes in yaoi are used as a "ravishment" fantasy, and should not be taken as realistic in any way. But they are still rapes because there was a lack of consent. It's just that as a purely fictional story element, they function differently than real life.

In real life, we must teach people that consent is absolutely necessary, and no situation justifies taking the other person's choice regarding sex away. This is an especially important lesson to teach boys and men (since most rapes are perpetrated by men, and some men claim to be confused about how consent works). Only yes means yes.

Doesn't change the fact that it was initially sexual assault.

Vaginas are generally torn in cases of rape because it indicates especial violence. It's normal for the vagina to tear during sex, especially if you're in experienced, as is bleeding, but rips in certain areas of the vagina indicate force. There can be no tears or tears in "normal" places, but it depends on the circumstances. (I used to watch a lot of CSI)

My point is I don't care if it was or wasn't rape (though honestly, that's debate; some people would still consider it rape, I'm not sure if I would or not, but I definitely don't like it). It was not okay to do. The fact that he said "yes" later does not get rid of the fact that he initially said "no" and continued to get groped anyways.

And THAT is exactly why something isn't rape, not the bullshit reasons the other person gave. After all, how can the rape occur if the act didn't occur?

I should point out, however, that only in cases of rape does the character of the plaintiff seem to play the largest role wrt witness credibility in 'he said, she said' situations. So I think it's BS as well that people automatically equate no rape conviction with no rape ever having occurred.

There is also a difference between criminal rape and non-criminal rape. Criminal rape is the one prosecuted by the courts. But, for the reasons I gave, above, and others, just because no one was convicted of criminal rape doesn't mean no such thing occurred.

I really DO love you, now!

Let's just all agree that actual rapists can burn in hell.

YES, you made the best point about the difference between fictional and real(istic) rape, here. It's the function it serves, not purely whether it was fictional or not. I learned something new, today! I can better argue my case and, hopefully, be less bombastic at the same time! So, thanks!

When Sun hwa was masterbating Sun bae found out, and forced himself on Sun hwa,SO in order to not escalate things he gave in. But pay attention to the story Sun hwa wrote he forced him several times

Agreed

That's tru, and I will never have a problem with fictional RAPE, ITis the best