When this story ends. I really want it to end with them getting married.

I hope the story don't end. I 2 want them to get married before it end cause I would like to see what marry life is like between them. Don't you?

Mmh, no, I can't see them getting married at all. I can't even see them saying ILU. To me, it's just not that kind of story and would be OOC in terms of the characters. They have many ways of expressing their feelings. But as I said earlier, it's all a bit "in a roundabout way". :) Nothing is said directly. It's more in the little things. Asami kissing Akihito's head during the penthouse crisis, calling him "you brat" when Akihito wouldn't budge, the way he ruffled Akihito's hair in bed after Akihito thanked him post Sudou. It's all very much non-verbal, but it's there. Personally, I don't want them to ever go sappy (big emotional declations of undying love for one another) or stuffy (marriage and happily ever after). My nightmare fanfiction is Asami and Akihito having a kitsch marriage, followed by an Akihito mpreg and four kids, LOL.

Now , I thought about this, we have stamped on what asami and aki will do and wouldn't do, due to what we know about their characters. Do we know what would happen from now to the end of the story? No, we don't so Marriage might not be far fetch. Who knows sensei might want to put a twist to their characters to surprise her fans at the end. You said "I don't want them ever go sappy". Do you remember the extra where aki portrait as a housewife, there wasn't anything sappy about it.

To be honest, I cringe every time we get Akihito playing the subservient housewife, the "let me just finish this dish", "I made you breakfast you just need to heat it up"; the "I broke the vase, so sorry", Asami coming in with his three-piece suit and the briefcase, looking like a bl... accountant.

The sappy, btw, was referring to what else I said: That I don't want sappy declarions of undying love, a wedding and happily ever after. It's just not that kind of story to me and it would be OOC for the characters. I also don't want stuffy, suburbian family life. That's why I said I don't like fanfiction with them getting marriend, Akihito mpreg and four kids.

Do we know what will happen in the future? Of course not. But after 13 years we have a very good idea of who these characters are and of the context they life, move and operate in. Sensei is not suddenly going to do a 180 on that. And it would be a 180.

If you can see it happening, that's absolutely fine. But it's just as fine that I cannot. ;)

For us, it has been thirteen years, but for the characters, it's been a year or so, so it's not like this is a way of life they've been mired in for over a decade. This is still a new relationship, still finding its footing and it could honestly go in any direction, including a 180.

But a 180 doesn't necessarily lead to a suburban house with four kids and a golden retriever. Marriage doesn't mean sappiness, a drastic change in lifestyle and the end of excitement. They're already living together. Akihito is already doing the cooking and cleaning, so that little housewife dream is already in place. Is it sappy now when Asami eats something Akihito has made for him and thinks it tastes good? No. It's sweet and a welcome glimpse into a side of Asami we don't often see.

I'm not arguing for marriage in this story. Just pointing out that it doesn't lead to that one dramatically dead conclusion.

And it wouldn't be OOC at all for either of these characters to openly say "I love you." Both Asami and Akihito are passionate people with strong emotions. It would, in fact, be more OOC for both of them not to eventually verbally express a feeling of love as they become more comfortable being open with each other and clear up their communication issues.

Asami already speaks openly to Akihito during sex. And he's already said things that are more ridiculously romantic and sappy than a simple "I love you." Look at the things Asami has done for Akihito. The man is a king-sized romantic. It would be more OOC for him *not* to say "I love you."

So this idea that it would be OOC for a declaration of love between them seems to me like one of those things one person said here once and everyone else jumped on it because it sounded cool but once you really think about the characters, it isn't true at all.

"The man is a king-sized romantic" really? :o
If you mean in actions like saving akihito, then I agree.
But saying "I love you" still seems OOC in my opinion because he seems like a man of few words, especially if those words are emotional.
I would love to hear your opinion ~

I want Aki to grow into himself personally and professionally with being a housewife too. I hate the common trope that being a uke means taking on traditional female sex roles. I don't like seeing women play that role either.

But I also want them to make a commitment. Commitment doesn't mean they have to stop being kick ass on their own.

Commitment I don't mind. As long as it's done "Viewfinder style". I don't want them to play "happy home" and get all domestic. I don't want the whole: "Darling! I'm hoooooome!" You know what I mean?

Not getting into your post because you presented your view very nicely and I can totally accept that we all have different opinions about it here. And I already stated mine and will stick with it, of course. ;)

But I'm rather confused with the "it's only been a year" part. What makes you think that? Because to me it's clearly longer than that (and that is also referenced in the Fei novel). And that is just Asami and Akihito.

But when judging the characters one also has to take the backstory into account (Asami and Fei) and that goes back another seven years. So in total, we are talking nine or ten years (seven years from the backstory to the present of Asami and Akihito meeting, then another two years, at least).

One more piece of "food for thought" I would like to add: In "Ai no Kusabi" Iason and Riki never say "I love you" or openly express their feelings verbally. They are not married, they were not even equal partners,they were master and pet. Yet the end leaves one in puddle of tears. This is without doubt the most beautiful love story in all of Yaoi land. It's the "Romeo and Juliet" of Yaoi. There are so many moments when they are saying "it" - without saying "it". No story has ever even remotely moved me as much as this, because their love is of such a unique quality. Talking about following each other into the abyss? There you have it. In perfection.

And that is why I don't need ILUs or a marriage or long-worded declarations. And that is why I will choose a good tragic ending over a cheesy happy end any day. And while I would like Asami and Akihito to have their happy end... I don't even need that. If sensei came up with a tragic ending that had an epic quality to it, I would not mind at all. But like I said, a happy end for those two would be fine. :) Still: In literature and history it is always the tragic stories that remain the most memorable not the onces with the "happily ever after". So I am completely open to a tragic ending here - realising that I'm in the minority with that, of course. :)

But we're not judging/discussing Asami and Fei. We're talking about Asami and Akihito's relationship and so we can only judge by the time they've been together, which can be argued to be little more than a year. The events of volumes three, four, five, six, seven and eight (and associated extras) take place in quick succession over a matter of months.

Sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree. The question that was raised earlier was whether or not we have gotten a good enough idea of who these characters are and whether we can evaluate them as characters (and I don't mean judge in a moral sense, but an assessment of who they are) to estimate where they will go and what they will do in the future or if something is in character or OOC. And that includes ALL we know about them, including Asami's backstory with Fei and his actions during that time. That, too, tells a lot about who Asami is as a person (in parts it tells us even more than we get from recent events). The events of seven years ago are giving us a great insight into Asami's character, so of course they play into his character assessment.

As for Asami and Akihito's relationship: Sorry, but from the first time they met to the penthouse crisis, that is definitely more than just a little over a year, at least it is to me. We will just have to agree to disagree here.

Be that as it is: My point was and still is, that we DO know enough about these two to assess them as characters and have an idea of what they will or will not do. Again, just my opion. We don't really have to discuss this, actually. You can have a different point of view and that's fine, it really is. I would just like to keep mine, too, if that's okay. And in my estimate there won't be sappy long love declarations, Asami and Akihito playing happy family or one or both of them turning into domesticated house husbands. It's just not that kind of story for me and they are not the kind of characters. There, just my own little opionion which I intend to keep. That's really all I have to say on the matter.

But you don't really have all those years of information on Asami. What you have is a few short days he passed seven years ago--and that from another character's viewpoint, which is suspect. We know absolutely nothing about Asami in the intervening years. So you have less information to go on there than you have from the point where he meets Akihito.

Of course, you are entitled to your opinions and of course, you don't have to discuss anything and if you don't want to, then don't respond to this. But I am going to now express my opinion.

Where is it written that saying "I love you" means life instantly becomes a dull suburban existence? This is a rather odd opinion to hold. There are many many many people throughout history who have said "I love you" and not ended up in a subdivision with four kids. I just don't get the fear here.

I also don't get this idea that voicing one of the most critical of human emotions is sappy. Often it takes courage to admit in the simplest of words the most powerful of feelings. It is a risk, a hazard, an instant creation of vulnerability and an opening for the most terrible pain or the greatest reward. Sappy? Not from where I'm sitting.

I mean, really think about who Asami is. He kills people. He can so easily pull out a gun and empty a clip into someone and end their life. He can open his mouth and threaten and coerce and yet he cannot muster himself to voice three simple words. When or if he does, that won't be sappy. I trust the artist who created Asami that it will be the most potentially powerful moment of this long story when this big man opens himself at last to the improbable boy who has given him the courage to say those words.

Why fall into the abyss when you can reach out to the person who means the most to you and ascend? After all, falling is easy. It's the lifting up that is hard.

Yes, really. Take a look at volume 6, chapter 35.4, the Midsummer Special. Asami listens attentively to everything Akihito says and lays out an incredibly romantic evening just to please him.

And he's not a man of few words. This is another of these odd misconceptions that I think people just keep repeating because they heard someone else say it. Open up any chapter and read again. He is erudite, a man of many words. He talks A LOT. He especially talks during sex. Akihito even thinks to himself how open Asami is at such times. He says very lovey-dovey things like "If you are by my side, I will always have my sweet juice." I mean, come on. From a man who can say something that ridiculous, "I love you" is hardly a stretch.

And while we're on the subject of "Things Asami Has Said," let's consider one of his most celebrated lines, "Don't toss my heart around." Now that is sappy, far more sappy than a simple "I love you." A man who can let bombast like that roll off his tongue isn't going to choke on "I love you."

You know that's a translation though. The original is "furimawasuna" as pointed out by the translators, which basically means "don't swing me around", as in pushing him around and making him get into trouble for him. The heart part was added by the translators because they interpreted it in a way that they even felt like they had to leave a note to explain it, but it's not actually literally what he said.

He did not invent "furimawasuna", I also saw it in some other manga and the context was quite similar.

Even so, "Don't toss my heart around" is accepted by readers here as something Asami would naturally say. Nobody questions is as being OOC. So the point stands that if you accept that Asami would have no trouble saying something like that, why would you consider an "I love you" OOC.

It's funny how you say that proves "I love you" as not OOC based on the feeling of readers over "don't toss my heart around" xD. There's certainly a reason if someone feels that way. Personally in general I feel that what Asami usually says shows he'd say anything but a straight "I love you".

Besides, "I love you" belongs to another culture than Japanese. There's really no way to say it in Japanese without sounding corny. Simply because the Japanese have no tradition of saying such phrase. They generally just don't say it, though dramas just love it. So do romance mangas, but it does sound cornier than you'd think.

Someone initiating a declaration of love (kouhaku), which is done to initiate dating, would say something with "suki". Basically a plain "like". Newly married couples would go with "ai shiteru", and that sounds even more powerful than the english "I love you", so it's not said often, only on very very special occasions. It just doesn't nearly come out as often irl as anime would let you think.

I just can't seriously see Asami say "Ai shiteru, Akihito". Would sound like he's asking him to marry him, aha. And "suki", well, nothing to get hyped over other than the fact that he said he felt something, but it sounds teenager-ish to me. I mean, it sounds cute.

I don't know, neither feel like they have their place in the story to me. Let him be more creative with how he shows his love aha.

But really, there are so many close Japanese couples that will never say it. Asians in general are raised with the mentality "show, don't talk". In western countries we're encouraged to speak our emotions first instead, being and extraverted, loud, etc...

Re: your first paragraph: If you think that, you aren't paying attention to what Asami says. First off, my comment is about readers' blithe acceptance of Asami saying something sappy like "Don't toss my heart around" but then turning around and saying "I love you" is sappy and insisting Asami would never say anything sappy, when he already has.

But if you pay attention to Asami's dialogue, you will see that he can be bombastic, sappy, as well as direct, so no, it does not follow that he would not say "I love you." The man is not an idiot. He knows how to use language, including a direct statement.

Now onto this tired old argument that the Japanese never say I love you. That isn't true. As you point out, the phrase can have strong meaning, which argues against the idea here that "I love you" is something sappy and to be avoided on those terms. If we're going to argue culture, then a Japanese "I love you" would be a momentous statement and not a cheesy line.

And this may come as shock to you, but this isn't real life we're reading. This *IS* a romance manga. And "I love you" occurs in many many other yaoi manga. So this dog needs to be retired from the debate because it simply does not apply.

What we are back to is "Is it in character for Asami to say 'I love you?'" If you have really been paying attention, the answer is a solid "Yes."

I think we can assess characters biased on the quality of information we have on them. We have more backstory on Asami because of Fei, but I think we know Aki better. We follow him closer most of the time, and we see his thoughts. He is very transparent. We have seen him in enough tricky situations to know how he reacts. We know his goals and dreams--what drives and torments him.

I think Aki needs to have a professional identity, and I think Asami knows it too.