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I wanted Sangwoo to get out for now so that the story continues bc if he gets caught story will end. Besides, he needs to be a challenge to Seungbae/cops (but man, do I wanna take that back now). And Seungbae, LOL, he is so frustrated! I am sure he wont give up on Sangwoo so easily.
First of all, I wrote this bc I read a lot of comments about it and I just had to say my part. I respect everyone's opinion, really. You may ship Bum x Sangwoo or sink it. I honestly don't care either way; I like the plot. I have read a few fanfic about them and they are interesting, sometimes creepy not so different from source material. I will babble a lot guys hope you'll be patient to the end.
So, is it consensual or rape?
There has been a ton of arguments that Bum wanted it, he just wanted to do it inside, he said I like you (Sangwoo) like 3 times, he was hugging Woo during the act--sated, he was worried Sangwoo will use dildo again. He never said no.
All of of these arguments boil down to one thing Bum consented, right? But he can't do that, he is not mentally stable enough for his opinion to count. Bum has borderline personality disorder. He has hallucinations. He has a weak mental constitution. Now, how can we consider what he says or even sees. Bum loves Sangwoo bc he accepted him. He fears abandonment so he always tries to placate Woo. There is also the fact that Sangwoo can kill Bum if he crosses the line. Of course, I agree Sangwoo has a special place for Bum. Bum intrigues Sangwoo, feeds his ego. What else does a narcissist want? Bum is the perfect victim for him. So, for me its rape.
Now another argument stems: if Sangwoo is crazy too then we should cut him some slack. But Sangwoo will not be called crazy, he is a psychopath, he isn't mad. Psychopathy is a personality disorder. He has no sense of right or wrong. There is no cure for him. No amount of therapy can change an uncaring mind. For all intents and purposes, psychopaths are lost to the normal social world. So, he will be held responsible for his actions. Though, Bum's disorder can be treated, he will be charged after his treatment, such is the law.
I like you analysis but with respect, I don't think it's a question of "opinions"--I think it's a matter of really understanding the definitions and apply the facts. Bum's consent counts, but not before it was given. Bum is not so mentally ill that he does not understand what sex is or that he cannot control his actions at this time. Therefore, he has the capacity to consent. However, consent must be given at the time of the act, and merely a general desire for sex does not equal and all time pass with regard to consent. So when he says no, it means no. Everything outside was therefore rape. When he says yes or I like you, it means yes, so what happened inside was consensual sex, albeit with a lot of pressure and emotional and physical pain.
Bum's mental state can be used to argue why it was or wasn't rape inside the house. However let's not forget the sex started before they were inside. Before said I like you inside he said no stop outside. It's debatable if Bum consented inside but we know that Bum did not consent outside. Bum's mental state and strong attraction to Sangwoo does not change the fact that he did not want to have sex outside. Personally I believe if sex starts as rape, it ends as rape. It is not acceptable to initiate sex with force.
I do agree with you on most points. I saw an explanation on another site going into greater depth on why the sex inside was also not fully consensual (I can't find the link right now). But anyway, it had some of the points you made but also took into consideration the power dynamics of their relationship. Having endured Sangwoo's abuse for so long, Bum has been conditioned to be inferior to Sangwoo. In their relationship Sangwoo gets what he wants and Bum must comply. The power to choose has been taken from Bum because no was never really an option. The two of them are far from equals, even during sex.
Again, I never said Bum was mentally ill. He has personalty disorder that can be treated. But due to constant abuse at the hands of his uncle his mind has been warped. His brain functions but he is prone to violence and can be impulsive, case in point Min Jeun stabbed to death and then Bum detaches himself from it all saying he doesn't feel anything. Though later he feels guilty and fears he will be punished. He understands the implications of his actions. But he is also weak to a strong personality Like Sangwoo.
Yeah, what start as rape can't magically become consensual love making (I wish you could give me the link I would have loved to read it). I agree Sangwoo did condition Bum to follow him around like a lost puppy. I didn't speak about it bc it had already been explained a bunch of times. I just wanted to talk about the rape. Though I did mention Bum's role in their relationship: a victim.
Contrary to that, I believe both of them are mentally ill. I can't say a lot about Sangwoo because I haven't seen much of his past.
But about Bum, I don't think it's something you can simply define, since he has gone (and still goes) through a lot of abuse. Unless you're an psychologist.
Nope, I am not a psychiatrist. Just a nerd who loves to read. I have said that personality disorder is different from mental illness in the sense that it doesn't affect ones mental capacity to make decisions, though they can be violent and driven by an impulse at times. A mental illness affects the brain functions. There is a thin line between the 2 terms.
*neither am I a psychologist.
I'm not trying to argue this but personality disorders are a type of mental disorder. Like all mental disorders, they do affect brain functioning.
Unfortunately I saw it somewhere deep in tumblr and made the mistake of not liking the post. If I manage to find it again I'll share it with you.
Yes, personality disorder is a type of mental disorder and it has symptoms like mood swings, violent behavior, etc so it does affect ones behavior but you cannot see it at a quick glance. Though people suffering such disorder aren't entirely sane but neither are they in a state of mind which prevents normal perception, behavior, or social interaction. They can capable of that understanding what is going on around them and interacting accordingly. I found one article about it. It isn't exhaustive but talks on this topic http://pb.rcpsych.org/content/pbrcpsych/early/2016/07/19/pb.bp.115.052753.full.pdf
Makes sense, but I think Bum has more than a personality disorder. I don't know much about mental illnesses but that's what I think at this point. I may be wrong though. ^^'
Hmmm...that may be a possible given all that he has been through. Hope we find out more about it in season 3. For which I am super excited!!!(๑•ㅂ•)و✧
Nothing changes, magically or otherwise. The key is consent. Outside, there was a clear no--so no consent What happened inside was different because he consented. There are two different acts, even if it is a continuation of the same activities. He said no to one, and yes to the other. So outside, he was raped, and inside he consented.
This outside/inside arguments won't change that its rape. Bum says no after Sangwoo penetrates him, '...it hurts,' 'no...stop,' but when Sangwoo does listen he gives up and says (at least) lets go inside. And then afterwards being the broken person he is after all the abuse he tries to make most out of it. He has issues. Why can't you see that? He may appear normal but not all type of mental problems cause people to drool down their chin and look like they belong in a mental asylum.
You still might disagree. But try to read the chap again and give it a thought.