Yamiga

While it does scream it, I wouldn't say it's confirmed (not that you said it was). It can't be denied that she's baiting us though, there's just no way she is not. Wether it's foreshadowing or just trolling, I really can't tell.

She basically screamed it since the beggining, only with textual evidences which most obviously can't get from the translations that are more or less accurate. Also, I wouldn't debunk a theory soletely on overanalysing the sentences of a translation anyway, there are too much issues involved. That's why I rather have the input of native Japanese speakers who can explain the translation issues and their different possible interpretations. Add to that that 98% of the time singular is used in English to Japanese translations the plural form could also be used, so it's only up to the translator's interpretation. You can only see the translator's interpretation, without seeing the ambiguities everywhere. Which obviously raised way more doubts on the theory than it should've.

The theory is hugely popular in Japan, few are those who don't buy into it apparently. I think that's pretty interesting and worth mentionning, as they have the unbiased original copies at hand. Of course, as the whole thing is so ambiguous, borderline obvious at some points, one would think there is a twin before making some complicated symbolism interpretations and mental illnesses.

Which was the contrary here. You have a default singular, you make those complicated symbolism interpretations and mental illnesses before thinking of a twin.

Only Yana knows if there is one or not though. One scenario would be that she never explains it and people will be debating on it forever lol.

And Zena returns to troll the fandom with the idiotic theory.. Nice. Just when everything was at peace too. Thanks for ruining the good holiday mood.

Lol. I barely said anything, I basically only said that it wasn't confirmed.
But you're welcome ;)

Long comment...you always have long comments! XD, To make it short, I agree with what you've said. Also, I think it's pretty cool that it's not just foreign fans that believe in the twin theory, but Japanese fans as well! That's awesome!

If you actually read the comments, there are a number of people making the same statement (like lolkika, Lidsworth, a long ramble ahead and kumaki), so quit trolling. It is obvious that you are trying to harass this person, as you are singling that person out and ignoring all the others. So maybe we should state that you are ruining to holiday mood too?

Ah, but you see little duckling, Zena is more than one person on this site. She is also Yamiga, Lidsworth, and Katty to boot. One person acting as more than one, a troller for this theory. And just for it, I kinda sent a letter to Yana explaining the trans teams activities. And if you know Yana, she doesn't like people who do that.

How do you even come up with these stories? xD

But Katty says completely different things then they do. Stop trying to start something you troll. At first it was Lightasus you guys were trolling, now it's these people. Who will I be next week? Let us share our opinions without you guys having to ruin everything, okay?

Really? As Lidsworth and Yamiga are American, and Zena is (I think) French Canadian, I think there is a definite disconnect in your thinking here. And you, who happens to be on this site doing the exact same thing you are accusing others of, are a hypocrite. Maybe we should mail Toboso Yana about you as well? But most of us are not that small minded.

Well then let us send Yana a letter about how people like you love to troll others who come up with theories and ruin the fun in the fandom. I'm certain she'll like that.

Go ahead, but that ain't going to change things, I believe Lightasus/Zena said the samething to her alter ego Katty once before. Also, I think she'll act more angrily toward the copyright infringement going on she might even get the police involved (after all some of the scans team is Japanese.).

Lol... Come back from (nearly two months) at the hospital and this what greets me. Granted I don't like this theory, and I do believe them quite foolish (to the point where I want to clonk their heads together to knock some sense into them. And for them to stop trolling with it. (the theory is a troll not the people)) but I'm not crazy enough to complain to Yana about the trans team. How else would we get the manga then? I'm sure as hell ain't going to wait months for the English volume to come out. Also, I'm not French.

The only reason I'm not going to argue is because it would be very poor to my health. I just got out of the hospital, I don't want to go back in. It's almost New Years! I missed Christmas, I'll be damned if I miss the end of the year.

Really? IDK who I'm responding to but whatever...


You either believe the twin theory, or you don't. Whether you believe in it or not shouldn't be someone else’s problem same goes for if you don’t believe in it. Your will/want to believe the theory is all up to you, not someone else. That being said, if someone believes it and you don’t agree with it, there’s no need to attack them because of it or act like an immature brat. We should all be free to voice our opinions without being called ‘dumb’, or accused of being the same person. Back on topic, we should all be able to have fun without fear. Who knows, maybe the twin theory is real, maybe it’s not. I think it’s fun to assume it’s real while I’m waiting, and I see nothing wrong with people that disagree with it and don’t think it’s real. Is that a bad thing? To have fun? I don’t think so. I mean, we’re all fans of the same manga, so why can’t we just get along while we wait? And the twin theory may be far – fetched, but please, to those who actually believe in it, or are leaning towards the fact that it may be true, don’t bash us or call us dumb. We’re just having fun, and if anything this shows just how much people are intrigued with the manga, to actually come up with something or assume something this big . If I were Yana, I’d be proud of my work.
And again, there’s nothing wrong with not believing in it, because you have as much as a right not to believe in it as we have a right to believe in it. It’s just pretty sour trying to have fun with someone always trying to ruin it.
You don’t have to argue or prove your point. Just be a fan and wait to see what happens. Chances are he doesn’t have a twin, but hey, I still hope he does. And there’s nothing wrong with that.
I just had to say this because the arguments over this theory are really childish.

And now you know why I no longer read. Everytime I try, it is ruined by silly fans going at each others throats. Some trying to force a theory, or argue a theory, or just plan out ruin the conversation with troll. You may no mean to troll, and it's fine if you believe or don't believe something, but when it cross the line of being pleasant to being labeled a troll, or just out right annoying in some peoples cases, then it's time to shut up and just read and enjoy. Keep your chats private.

Also, I think your trying to reply to Jason. Katty was probably typing out their reply when he posted theirs, so I don't think they saw the latest post they made. It happens.

This so much Yamiga.

What annoyed me was the constant countering of every single thing I could come up, with, let's be honest, really weak arguments I'm sure they wouldn't accept if I used them against them. Let's actually talk about argumentation.

You guys are mostly using this sophism called the "Appeal to ridicule". I suggest that you go and see what it is about here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_ridicule

Ciallan and Katty just showed great examples up there.

And really, mostly this:
"you're wrong because *insert equally unproven interpretation about Ciel's character as the one just presented to you here*"

"there's NO WAY this scene could be interpreted in any other way than x" while obviously there's a lot of people that do interpret it differently.

Were you guys really convinced that using fallacious arguments could "knock back some sense" into me? It was just painful to see. It's just trying to deceive people into believing it's complete crap, when it actually isn't all that far-fetched.

I love the theory, I want to talk about it with people who share the same interest. Like most people here, I don't want to argue with yet another unconfirmed theory that apparently doesn't have that much more going on for it.

Without any bias, the two make about just as much sense. Your view on that depends on how open-minded you are to either, and how much you actually dig up about them. Simple as that.

My, what an ego on you Zena, throwing people down like that. Shame on you. It's like you are saying it is wrong for them to argue at all. However poorly formatted it is, that doesn't change the fact that they provided some good facts to the table. You just need to rid yourself of that ego of yours. No wonder people get annoyed with you. Here's something, take a tip from your own book for once. You preach about wanting to have a peaceful conversation without being insulted, well why don't you stop trying to insult or argue with those who don't believe it or try to explain it away. Face it, you are just as bad as some of the trolls on here. You are no different, you throw people down, insulting them in under your words. You are sick! If this page does get taken down, I say good riddance. If that has to happen to knock some sense into to treat people nicely, so be it. I'll help in the reports myself.

I don't see where I'm insulting people quite frankly, but I agree with most of what you say; they do give good arguments. Just as good.
What I was getting sick of, is people putting those arguments up, which don't have that much more going on for them anyway (but are still interesting), with the mentality, if I quote Katty, "I want to clonk their heads together to knock some sense into them". Or that's just the feeling I got from a couple of them, which I thought was quite rude. Then I went full stupid and continued to reply to those few, not that calmly sometimes (no insulting though?), that I agree I shouldn't have done (and I was aware of that while doing it). It dragged on for ages because of that, while at first I only really wanted to post a thing or two about it lol, but yeah they hurt my ego :V. Theirs is just as big though ;)

I know I'm really bad at expressing myself sometimes, I always assume people know of what I think is obvious when they clearly aren't. That's one of my faults, and it's that worse on the net when it takes ages for people to reply back when irl it takes seconds :X

I don't understand why anyone needs to be reported. This could all be solved if we were just nice to each other. If people agree with the theory then that's fine, if they don't that's fine too. Listen, people shouldn't put others down, and that's happening a lot , but I don't think that's going to change as much as it should. It would be really cool if we could all be nice, but there are too many opposing ideas, which again, I can't see why we can't follow the rule of "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all". Basically, don't let others ruin your fun.
If possible, just ignore them, don't report them. If we just ignored others who were rude, and tried to be nice, then this could be a lot more fun then it actually is. okay bye...