Just wait everything come at the right time (づ￣ ³￣)づ
rough yes but not rape as there was consent and she did not retract it at any point
dude....we are tlking bout edna....as if she would let anthing happen to her....the abuse she had in that other dudes house was also stuff she allowed to happen to herself....supposedly cause she kinda wanted to be punished somehow for her past and the guilt she feels for being alve....so yeah....she allowed the sex....she is no one to be raped haha
wtf is wrong with you?
Uhm...did you read this manga completely? If yes, you should know what I mean. I tried to be purposefully as vague as possible so that only people who know the full story and especially the identity of edna would be able to understand. Because yes, at first I was put of by Eli and did not like him. But that was all pure intention. Everything in this manga is well planned and intended, to create a certain atmosphere. What happens in the beginning is what we all see, but later on with more knowledge of the background etc. we understand. The writer truly managed to take us with along the process of those two slowly getting to know each other and love each other. So, no. It was no rape. Because Edna is not a character, to let that happen to herself. As she has way too dignified for that and has too much self preservation. She agreed to it all. So what I would want to ask you is, why you reacted so aggressive? Haha....strange
Binged it like a few days ago so it's fresh in my mind. Did you read my previous comment, it's right above yours. I don't think it was rape and I clearly stated that.
My problem is the whole idea you have about how someone can allow themselves not to get raped. What is wrong with you? Anyone no matter how strong they are can get into a situation like that. And also the whole thing about how she allowed herself to get abused.
You wanna know why I'm reacting like this? Well then, think about what the hell you just said and what it implies. Trashy. Just straight up shitty.
In case you haven't figured it out... which I wouldn't be surprised by since you said it in the first place, I will make it really clear. The idea that someone can 100% prevent themselves from getting raped (what do you consider her to be some kind of an all-powerful being?) and the idea that someone (who was clearly in a bad place at the time mentally, her family got murdered, all she was aiming towards got destroyed and she got betrayed) makes the conscious decision to let themselves get raped/abused is messed up. It's the type of logic people who victim blame would use. Do I consider her a victim in this case? Certainly not a rape victim (you would know if you read my first comment) but she did suffer from physical abuse before. The fact that you dare to say that she chose to let herself get abused is just fucked up.
What were you thinking? Do you apply this kind of logic in general or was this a one-time thing? And don't you dare even try to justify this. Maybe you didn't in fact realize it, maybe you just didn't agree with OP and phased things VERY VERY VERY badly.
You obviously do not understand what I mean. What I am trying to say is, that she did not use all her might to fight back. When she was a maid, she ran away and did not do anything to fight back. She is one of the most skilled women in that fantasy world, even more skilled than men in combat. The reason why she did not do anything back then as a maid, was as sh herself subtly coveyed, was because she felt guilty and was in pain. So external pain was like a form of punishment she took. As I say, cause she never fought back or walked away or went on hiding as a man. She could have done anything. Normal woman could not. I clearly could not, seeing how unskilled I am. And do not judge others by mere words and reading between the lines, without asking. YOu never know, if the person you talk to actually has very much so a clear idea about what it means to be abused and pushed down against their will and witness how not strong you are and no matter how much you don`t want it you cannot protect your own body. And this is not victim blame. I told you, that I disliked Eli in the beginning. I was super negative at the beginning about this romance to come. But what you do not understand yourself, even though you kinda say it yourself is, that she knew. She decided, that she has no other way to do what she wanted to do, was to become duchess. She told him, kill me or make me your wife and your partner in bed. Before he came onto her. Even though she was scared of him and felt pain ( cause it was her first time and he was rough expecting an experienced woman), she started the day strong, dignified and fully conscious of the decision she made without any regret. What you do right now would be declaring someone victim, who does not see himself as a victim. If someone decides something, especially someone as rational and intelligent as this character here, then they take responsibility and do not regret anything. I can understand why you react like this. And fundamentally I agree with you. But you just might not grasp the depth of the situation here. Sometimes life and humans are much more complex than the way we see it with our morale and rules. I don`t know If I conveyed what I mean a little better to you, but If still not, then I guess it is alright. As yes, basically, no one wants to be raped or abused, yes. Or should be, even if they hate themselves so much that they think they deserve it. :)
I NEVER SAID SHE WAS RAPED. I NEVER SAID SHE WAS RAPED. I NEVER SAID SHE WAS RAPED. I NEVER SAID SHE WAS RAPED. I NEVER SAID SHE WAS RAPED. I NEVER SAID SHE WAS RAPED. I NEVER SAID SHE WAS RAPED. I NEVER SAID SHE WAS RAPED.
Do you get it now?
No, it is you who is missing the point. Sure she did not fight back but she obviously wasn't in the right state of mind. Thus at the time the abuse occurred, she wasn't able to give valid "consent" to being abused. As if that is even a thing you can consent to. You say that she allowed herself to get abused. Additionally she was in a position where she had no choice but to hide her identity and thus had to pretend to be weak.
E.g. of her not being fully mentally stable even after the abuse occurred: she tried to throw herself into a fire. Was she consenting to be burned? No, she wasn't in the right state of mind.
It doesn't matter that she can fight, it doesn't matter that she is strong. If they wanted to, they could
"You never know, if the person you talk to actually has very much so a clear idea about what it means to be abused and pushed down against their...." And neither do you.
It makes no difference if you disliked Eli since I ain't saying that he raped her. I NEVER EVER SAID THAT HE RAPED HER YOU IGNORANT SWINE. Do you get it now?
Me quoting myself; "rough yes but not rape as there was consent and she did not retract it at any point," does that sound like me saying that he raped her?
How am I declaring someone to be a victim? I said that she is not a rape victim. I have only called her a victim of abuse because what happened before she met him was clearly abused. The scar she has on her back are a sign of abuse. The fact that she didn't fight back doesn't matter espcially because of the position she was in.
"If someone decides something, especially someone as rational and intelligent as this character here, then they take responsibility and do not regret anything." > When she was being abused at the mansion she was not in a good state of mind. Clearly mentally unstable.
How could you have convinced me of anything when you didn't even read what I said. You even just said it yourself "No one wants to be raped or abused, yes. Or should be, even if they hate themselves so much that they think they deserve it" then why the fuck are you saying that she let herself be abused, that she was ok with it happening?
And again. We are talking about one specific female character here: Edna. And again, she is no ordinary woman. Other woman would have been frightened fromt he start and it could surely have ended in a bad bad situation with Eli`s weird fucked up mood at the start. But Edna was not overtaken by fear. She was clear in mind and spoke to her mind. That moment was the first time he sensed, that she is no ordinary woman. And we saw those "special gaze" of her. Edna did not show any form of unwillingness after their conversation and him finally initiating a kiss. She cried, because of the pain during it. But she did not fight against it. That is what I mean. Sure other women might have actually really not wanted it and just out of pure fright endured it, because they would know they could not fight back and it would be rape. This was a twisted way of Edna giving in to Eli willingly to secure her life without revealing anything about her hidden side as "Eden". Same before, when she was a maid. She fought against being raped night and night again by the soldiers, as she said herself to Eli when he pointed that sword on her throat during his interrogation, but she endured the beatings. All to hide her true self and live on as a maid. It was all her decision. She decided to live as a maid and later on be a woman in Elis bed. All to hide her true identity. Because she wanted to hold on to that promise to her mother and live as Edna. Bruh....so hard to explain stuff to other readers, just cause it seems no matter what ya say someone will always decid to missunderstand....urgh...but I clearly do this, too, cause I decided I want to talk about this amazing story in one way or another haha....although I calculated all sorts of outcomes and had suspected your reaction already :) but i knowingly went along with it
oha wow....haha first i thought this was interesting....seeing as you do not get to discuss with other readers such deep topics and ideas....but you obviously are waaaay to invested emotionally haha...sorry that is no fun though....as soon as you lose all objectivity and rationality during a discussion with an anonymous party you clearly diqualify yourself....no fun....as soon as i read swine, you were gone bye bye....grow up, learn to focus and actually see what the other is saying and not subjectively analyze them to your own convenience....boring
She is strong, sure. She doesn't get intimidated easily. Being mentally unstable doesn't equate to being scared. Being mentally unstable equals to not functioning correctly mentally. Like I said before, when did I say that what happened between them in bed was rape.. or even abuse. I'm not saying that she was mentally unstable when she had CONSENQUTIAL sex with him. What do you not get about what I'm saying?
Look, get your mind out of the "I'm right and you're mistundertanding" me mentality. It doesn't do you any favors at all when you are not acknowledging what I'm saying. I said that it's not rape, I said that she gave consent and didn't retract it at any point during the sex.
You are not doing anything knowingly, you are outright ignoring what I'm saying.
...can you please just read anything I wrote.
You are not being objective and rational. You're ignoring what I am saying and arguing a strawman you created in your head.
If you want me to believe that you understood what I said then go on and explain what it is that I have been saying.
Ok. Euh. This got super confusing. I hope you get my answer to your private message. Cause I do not want to write it again here. Just to say....It is not about you saying Edna was raped. It is about your comment to my comment to the original comment ( puns intended to lighten the mood), about her going into everything fully consciously ( refering to the abuse during her life as a maid and their first time which was no rape as you and i agree upon since the beginning). the rest of the discussion was me trying to explain upon the subject and story at hand, what i tried to say with that, so that you would no longer think that i was trying to say that abuse and rape could be agreed upon....this became so strange haha
... if you were trying to say that you could have actually said that instead of going on a tangent and acting like I was saying that she got raped while also acting like you're some 500+ IQ genius.
But if this is truly the case and you're not saying that because at this point you're not making any sense then go on and rephrase/fix your reply to the OP. If you think that abuse/rape could be agreed to then why did you say "abuse she had in that other dudes house was also stuff she allowed to happen to herself" clearly implying that
1)You can agree to abuse by allowing it
2)During the sex, she got raped/abused. And let's be honest, you can't even argue the abuse angle when it came to sex as it was just rough sex.
All this combined literally makes everything you said make no sense.
other dudes house ( me forgetting who the father of that blue eyes blondie was and if he was a lord or a duke so i called him "other dude")....differenciated between abuse and rape as well so that one would know who and what situation i meant....i give up at this point for real....ok...then believe that i make no sense if that calms your mind :)
You can pretend that you're above me but honestly, I'm sure that if any outsider/neutral person read this, they would think that you're acting like a child.
now this turned into an ego game for you...gosh...
So me wanting someone who isn't biased is an ego game?
I'm not too sure about this... isn't the beginning kinda rapey...? I'm on chapter 20 and he didn't even apologize. pity because i found the plot intriguing but i'm a bit uncomfortable with this