Maya changes but is the beginning as clear cut as everyone thinks?

Yasssssss finally someone said it all, thank you~

Thanks you! But I did not say it all. I really don't think I can at this moment. I need to get the Japanese versions. Also, I was afraid of making that too long. I am sorry for my grammar mistakes. I should had wait a day or two and edit it.
Like I forgot the 's' in deserves, another time with likes. "Everyone deserves a second chance", "he (maya) likes Nemu." I even caused a misunderstanding with, "When he is exposed for cheating and Maya gets him from the seven bar,"
I need to put when Nemu was exposed... I almost made that to had been Maki.
I know this is just a story, and Maya is just a character but for who he is in volume 3-9+, I feel like he needs a voice. Everyone has to learn how to be in a relationship, it does not come naturally. Maya did it the wrong way, and thought with the wrong head. Also, sharing how you feel is just as hard and harder for some. I can see Maya's love for Nemu. Some Asian men are shy like this and it hard for them to express themselves. My boyfriend which is Korean, told me directly I was his teacher and best friend but indirectly he was asking me out. I did not understand at first then he got depressed after that and slowly pulled away. It was not until I remember that Koreans would introduce the one they are dating as a teacher. I had to tell him I did not understand and I did not reject him before we went back to "normal". Gah! He told me he loved me by a comment where the "share what you are up too section" in Skype. I have dealt with his indirectness for years and I can understand Maya's indirectness. I can understand why Nemu has problems with understanding and more so especially since Maya did it in the wrong way. But I just don't think of Maya as a rapist and
the only time through the 9 volumes and doujinshi that comes close to a rape scene would be when they meet after Akira talks to Maya in Chapter 2. Maya is angry then angrier when he gets hurt by Nemu's words. But we don't see anything from point A to point B. However, it does appear that Nemu seems okay and enjoying it but scared. Only he started to hiccuping and being upset when Maya says "You're a real masochist, aren't you?" If he acted like this or gut-wrenching sobbing the first time or anytime (like after Maya kicks the desk and being an angry bully). I believe Maya would had stop. Even if he is angry and hurting being a bully he still sighed and letting of some of anger, when Nemu starting to hiccup and getting upset. He says "that is enough. Calm down. kiss" A time where Maya has demonstrated he can't handle Nemu crying and wants it to stop. Maya saying tell him were going out meant he wants to go out with Nemu.
I know I used a comment from a doujinishi from Yonezou Sensei and some not count that has cannon. So therefore, using the manga, on page 101 in volume 1 he does tell Nemu on something he just did to Nemu, "I didn't mean to do something cruel to you". This is when the blackmailed stopped but not confirming being in a real relationship. Also, this was before the moment in the doujinishi. Also in this time, Nemu on page 97,100,103-104, understanding some of his feelings for Maya but he is like me dense. I think that makes what he say to Maya page 64 volume 1 not true because he does not understand his feelings toward Maya then and it took Maya avoiding him after Akira's intervening in volume 1 for him to understand some. I don't think Maya wanted to ever to do something cruel and he knows Nemu has been enjoying. The blackmailing to him is just a deception and a cover-up of his real feelings where Nemu took it at face-value.
I really want to buy all the volumes in Japanese and see if there is any more pieces of evidences that could support my theory on the facts in the manga.
When I was talking about the it hurts and bubbles. I missed up there. There are two bubbles one says "hurts" and the other said "it hurts". In japanese the first bubble says "i" and the second says "ta" itai means painful, ache, sore. that "ta" is not in Kanji like the itai on the page before. Nemu did not even finish the word in Japanese but the english translation is "hurts, it hurts." That makes this situation worst by causing misunderstandings to the English readers. Yes, "ita" is a word, means was but I don't think that fits the content.
I used a manga for an example and I think now, "Unbalance Na Netsu" or "Unbalance heat" by Minase Masara would be a better example. That manga Shinya drugs and rapes Ryuu with no compassion and just to hurt his brother. Ryuu actions in the manga after that is someone traumatized by being rape. Even Ryuu's first time having sex after being rape, he was scared and his lover had to help him. I am not trying to spoil that manga but comparing this manga to that manga. It should show Maya really like Nemu and was really gentle the first time with him like a lover.
I just don't see Maya as an rapist. Maybe at the beginning I did until volume 6 and I re-read things. Maya is now a different person and should not be label on something from the past. Their past did not matter to them by the end of volume 2. They forgave and moved forward. A few times the past has played apart in their decisions but they grow as a couple each time. I wished readers would see calling Maya a rapist for something he did once, if you count that one time, is wrong especially since it has been almost 2 years since that time by the end of the volume 9 and he does loves Nemu which he completely changes for him. Maya let go of his past (i.e his feeling over his parents divorce) because of Nemu and slowly become a least toxic person as time pasts. Judge a person on who they are now, not who they were. (Even though this is just a character in manga.) Maya did blackmail him, sexual assault him, threaten him, and coercion him into making love which Nemu seems to went with after a point and enjoying it. I know many sees Maya raping Nemu at the beginning, which could be true because it does present that way with the threats and blackmail but if Maya did rape Nemu, He raped him by making love to him. In contrast, Okino was with someone that would brutally rape him and Juuta would had brutally rape Sanada sensei. Shinya brutally raped Ryuu. Juuta is the one people should be disliking. Both of these men, like Shinya, would not care about the well being of the one their raping but Maya did care for Nemu. I will research some more and maybe add some more points but I think what I pointed out speaks for itself. Hidoku Shinaide is a jem.

Thank you.* lol sorry. Your comment meant a lot to me. And no problems. =^.^=

Thank you so much, I've learned a lot and realized a lot~

Hm. I do slightly disagree, because I think the argument "he/she could have said no, but didn't" is too often the self-justification of people in positions of influence who sexually assault others (e.g. family members, teachers, adult family friends, clergy etc.). I think that he had Nemu in a vulnerable and stressed state and therefore what he did was completely inexcusable and unacceptable. And, I think that how Nemu reacted isn't even the point, the point is that he made a decision to blackmail someone into sex acts and did so more than once.

I do agree, though, that this is a manga that didn't just brush this off. It does show Maya constantly growing and learning to reflect - when he's clearly not a guy who naturally thinks his actions through nor reflects on them afterwards - and my favourite part so far is when he hears about someone else's horrible experiences and suddenly realises that he was inflicting that upon Nemu. I think it shows the manga DIDN'T brush it off as something excusable or unlikely to cause psychological harm, and it also shows how little he realised, even after a long time, just how serious what he did was. It showed that he didn't think deeply about his actions nor how they might negatively affect Nemu, he just did what he wanted and thought it would be OK, and gradually learned how to behave better and treat Nemu better, but still hadn't realised how serious his actions had been.

I also agree that this manga chose to have Nemu NOT be seriously damaged by what Maya did to him at the start of their relationship. And, perhaps if he had been, you're correct that he might have stood up for himself more; but I don't find that an excuse for Maya. He COULD have been more seriously damaged, and he MIGHT not have been someone capable of saying no, so that doesn't excuse Maya for me, that's just lucky. However, it does make the development from that horrible start into a real relationship somewhat more reasonable.

There are far too many manga that have started with blackmail or outright rape and then the story and the characters seem to brush that off completely; the perpetrator is whitewashed as a good person and love develops despite that, completely ignoring the fact that he is someone capable of rape and/or blackmail. THIS manga has been walking a fine line and barely manages to save itself from falling into this pattern. Maya is thankfully not portrayed as a character who is actually-good-so-we'll-ignore-how-he's-a-blackmailing-sexual-assaulter but instead, as you described so well, as someone young and without enough good influences around who makes thoughtless, impulsive choices regardless of propriety or consequences. As such, he is someone capable of growing and maturing and gradually learning from mistakes and bad choices. It explains his behaviour but doesn't excuse it.

And, personally, I wasn't reconciled at all with the way he started out UNTIL it got to the point where he looked back in shock and remorse.

Anyway, this is just how I have read the story. ╮(￣▽￣)╭

Thank you and your welcome. I just want to try to help. =^.^=

Hello, Aurinne. You said, "I do slightly disagree, because I think the argument "he/she could have said no, but didn't" is too often the self-justification of people in positions of influence who sexually assault others." Unfortunately, that was not my argument. I was not justification sexually assault. I did say " I am not saying what he did was right because the blackmail, rape, and sexual assault are hideous crimes. I am not say what he did was okay, I do wished the beginning was different" and various other comments. I was not supporting Maya in what did but who he has became. Therefore my comments should had shown his blackmailing and sexual assault was inexcusable and unacceptable. Also, I pointed out cannon facts from the manga, like scenes, words and original Japanese verison. Someone can disagree with that all they want but that can not change what happen. Nemu has been in a few different vulnerable and stressed state but he stood his ground then and reacted in different ways. I think how Nemu acted is a point because it is cannon and shows it may not be as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

Lots of your points are what I wrote.... you said "and my favourite part so far is when he hears about someone else's horrible experiences and suddenly realises that he was inflicting that upon Nemu. I think it shows the manga DIDN'T brush it off as something excusable or unlikely to cause psychological harm, and it also shows how little he realised, even after a long time, just how serious what he did was."
and I wrote this "Later when Maya listens to Okino's story about almost being raped. The realization of what he did hits him hard, it really affects him and gets all depressed. When he asks about that he asks "that was rape wasn't" and Nemu answer was "huh?" and later in that scene Nemu said there was nothing to forgive, he already forgive him. " Hummm.... I pointed out it hits him hard, it affects him and gets all depressed... So my point is stated again by you but "DIDN'T Brush it off as something excusable" Sigh. Looks around, I did not brush it off or even incited the manga brushed it off. Another comment by you are my points again just said differently...you said."It showed that he didn't think deeply about his actions nor how they might negatively affect Nemu, he just did what he wanted and thought it would be OK, and gradually learned how to behave better and treat Nemu better, but still hadn't realised how serious his actions had been."

You said "I don't find that an excuse for Maya. does not excuse Maya" Aurinne,,, where are you getting that? I am standing up for the Maya he became. Everyone deserves a second chance. Maya was toxic and in a real bad place he thought with the wrong head and did a few hideous crimes. Also, Nemu can say no, he has show that many times.
You said "It explains his behaviour but doesn't excuse it." I was explaining the behavior.... not excusing it? ehhh?! hecka..>>
The blackmail, a really bad choice, but I have said ' using the manga, on page 101 in volume 1 he does tell Nemu on something he just did to Nemu, "I didn't mean to do something cruel to you". This is when the blackmailed stopped but not confirming being in a real relationship. Also, this was before the moment in the doujinishi. Also in this time, Nemu on page 97, 100, 103-104, understanding some of his feelings for Maya but he is like me dense. I think that makes what he say to Maya page 64 volume 1 not true because he does not understand his feelings toward Maya then and it took Maya avoiding him after Akira's intervening in volume 1 for him to understand some. I don't think Maya wanted to ever to do something cruel and he knows Nemu has been enjoying. The blackmailing to him is just a deception and a cover-up of his real feelings where Nemu took it at face-value. " and many readers have also....
I had said, I used a manga for an example and I think now, "Unbalance Na Netsu" or "Unbalance heat" by Minase Masara would be a better example. That manga Shinya drugs and rapes Ryuu with no compassion and just to hurt his brother. Ryuu actions in the manga after that is someone traumatized by being rape. Even Ryuu's first time having sex after being rape, he was scared and his lover had to help him. I am not trying to spoil that manga but comparing this manga to that manga. It should show Maya really like Nemu and was really gentle the first time with him like a lover.
I just don't see Maya as an rapist. Maybe at the beginning I did until volume 6 and I re-read things. Maya is now a different person and should not be label on something from the past. Their past did not matter to them by the end of volume 2. They forgave and moved forward. A few times the past has played apart in their decisions but they grow as a couple each time. I wished readers would see calling Maya a rapist for something he did once, if you count that one time, is wrong especially since it has been almost 2 years since that time by the end of the volume 9 and he does loves Nemu which he completely changes for him. Maya let go of his past (i.e his feeling over his parents divorce) because of Nemu and slowly become a least toxic person as time pasts. Judge a person on who they are now, not who they were. (Even though this is just a character in manga.) Maya did blackmail him, sexual assault him, threaten him, and coercion him into making love which Nemu seems to went with after a point and enjoying it. I know many sees Maya raping Nemu at the beginning, which could be true because it does present that way with the threats and blackmail but if Maya did rape Nemu, He raped him by making love to him. In contrast, Okino was with someone that would brutally rape him and Juuta would had brutally rape Sanada sensei. Shinya brutally raped Ryuu. Juuta is the one people should be disliking. Both of these men, like Shinya, would not care about the well being of the one their raping but Maya did care for Nemu. I will research some more and maybe add some more points but I think what I pointed out speaks for itself."
In volume 1, Their first time... Maya asks him to masturbate... No thoughts of "I don't want to do it" or "why". Maya goes to help... no thoughts of "why" or "Maya is touching it." no reaction of pulling away. I would had reacted, blackmailed or not. Maya Kisses him on his neck and Nemu Jolts.. why it was not expected.. why did he not "Jolt" when Maya, another man touch a sacred area? Maya goes in for another kiss but on the lips with no "Jolt" but did get a "!" which could be for the kiss or Maya zipping his jacket down. From the kiss on the lips to the kneal down scene there is a gap. The official English translation does have "Muri" "Muri" as "No" which means "impossible". Nemu says in the official ENGLISH translation is "No No No! I-can't ! I can't do this!" Maya did force this part as I had said. Nemu after getting instructions from Maya is like "Lick it?like this?" "Lick" "suck on it maybe like this." "but how?" "rub it with my lips" "maybe It'll be okay if I just do the lick and suck stuff." mmmm but from my experience that is not the thinking of someone being rape. Maya shows and tells him again, "Oh I see." I think in the fansub it is "so, that is how you do it...with sudden realization." I can look at the Japanese version. He went back to it.... This is Nemu's first time giving a blow job and may touching someone else's jewels. There were no thoughts on that but we got "like this?", "but how?"....... I pointed out Maya saying Nemugasa, asking if he was okay, and to lie down on his jacket, etc to show others Maya's behaviors that he like Nemugasa and gentle. BY NO MEANS excusing his toxic bad choice. When Nemugasa says it is dirty. In the official English translation he says "Wait it'll get dirty!" I can check with the Japanese. I can assume, Nemu meant the grass and dirt. Maybe Maya took that wrong and was not thinking about dirt but what he was thinking about. That could had been a consent to Maya but that is not here or there, That is assuming because the Manga does not show that.. One interpretation...But Nemu is worry about Maya's jacket instead of why is he laying wanting him to lay down or why Maya is getting above him.. When Maya touches his butt he is blushing.(manga says blush). he does say stop then he pants.. Maya touches his butt after the lotion(?). Nemugasa goes to say Maya....not stop or no... Nemu is in the moment,enjoying it with blushing, panting, and starting to say Maya's name. And it appears to be the same after Nemu gets over the shock and pain of what Maya did next. Nemugasa lives a strict only study life style, and he is dense to his feelings another with others feelings. He is naive in many things like sex. Nemu said he did not want to be in the relationship with Maya to only a few days later after Akira did what he did go back into the relationship without being blackmailed because he missed Maya and was lonely. Nemugasa actually like Maya there but did not understand his own feelings. If Maya was not so persistent and back off, he would had got what he wanted. Page 100 volume one, first time they are together without being "blackmailed" "his hands are moist. Maya's hands usually they're smooth and feel good but when I feel good it starts getting moist and I love being touched by them." And Nemu tells him no here on something. Maya stops and he says "It didn't hurt you, am I right? I did not mea to do something cruel to you." He does not see their first being cruel yet until volume 6. Which I pointed out the Nemugasa "Eh" to Maya's question. I will look at the original Japanese for this sentence. Page 115 volume 2, Nemu says "it is not like he hated him.... It was because he was so persistent the reason why he looked like he hated him to Juuta.. I mean Nemugasa did not ask like he was rape. blackmailed and forced yes. He did enjoy the sex.....page 100 volume 1... would be a good example. What if Nemugasa never felt or seen that as rape? They meet Akira right after and Akira did not pick up on anything. which says something within itself. Nemugasa has forgave him for their beginning. That is not brushing it off or excusing it. If Nemugasa has, why can't we as readers? People change and they need to be judge on who they are now and not who they were. The Maya now should not be condemn for his past self especially when he has changed so much. Anyone can disagree agree with me but it does not change the cannon facts in the manga but little I can do when a different interpret on my own words is taking and attempt to used against me....

Hi, sorry you took my words that way. On re-reading your original comment, I realise that I did forget a some of your details by the time I came to write my thoughts and that I also hadn't interpreted everything the way you had intended, so I apologise for repeating parts of what you said, and for giving the impression I was disagreeing with you more than I was - I was actually mostly agreeing with you, but I clearly didn't express this well . I think you also took it that most of my post was in direct response to your post, but in fact some of it was me going into my own thoughts - but again, on re-reading my OWN post, I don't think I conveyed the distinction between the two well, either.

I think I was left with the impression that your original comment "explained away" his behaviour at the beginning, which prompted me to write out my thoughts, which you have explained now was not what you had been doing and I'm sorry I took it the wrong way. I was mainly just enjoying discussing the story and the many good points that you brought up, in what I thought was the spirit you had written your original post. I didn't expect it would be seen as aggressive or unreasonable, so I'm pretty sad about that. I always despair that sharing opinions on here often turns into people being dogmatic or rude, and am fairly dismayed that my post may have come across as either, since I had consciously tried quite hard to avoid anything like that.

Thanks for writing out your thoughts.

Aurinne, I am sorry for my late reply, I read your message and thought about it then repeat a few times. I see and I understand…. Maybe it is my fault because I tend to overdo things and that was maybe too detailed. Also, I noticed your writing is more British English style, mine was in American (Mi Amore, Anon-ese), English style. That could had caused a conflict in interpret (on both sides). Actually, it is okay for repeating parts, I don’t mind and would not have mind if not for that circumstance because it is great to know others see the same thing. I was defensive because I would not excuse blackmail, sexual assault, rape, etc. In that circumstance, it felt like my messages were not read and I did feel like you thought I was excusing criminal behavior. However, if they really changed their life, grow, matured like Maya, I would judge on who they are not what they did in the past. i have been thinking of someone that was a villain/did bad things that has reformed, like Harley Quin, Poision Ivy. But I can't really think of one that is universal known.. Maybe Smurfette. She was an enemy to the smurfs.. Now she is maybe the most positive loved smurf in the village. The second live action movie addressed this. She did bad things, but that should not always be held against her since she is changed. Maya is different by the End. Maya did blackmail and sexual assault Nemugasa but it was different from other stories and not brutal. To me from what I understand from the manga, Maya did not want sex because he could had gone and got a willing girl easy. Maya wanted to have sex with someone he liked and wanted to try it with, but he made a criminally bad choice because he thought that was his only method at the time. I did get you were mostly agreeing with me for the most part. . Thanks for explaining that some of that was not direct responses to me. I was wide eye and scratching my head a few times. I was so totally confused. “EH!” and “What” ran through my head a few times. I should had asked before my reply.
I am going to do some more research and translating before I rewrite and make a new tread. I kind of wrote that free style and I should had work on that a few more days before I posted it. But at least I got a trail run. I know I need to fix the impression that was explained away Maya’s toxic criminal behavior. I know he did not see that as cruel at the beginning and he did not want to do anything cruel to Nemu. I know he got impatiently desperate thinking with the wrong head in something he should had done in a different way. When you wrote, “he/she could have said no, but didn't" is too often the self-justification of people in positions of influence who sexually assault others,” and “There are far too many manga that have started with blackmail or outright rape and then the story and the characters seem to brush that off completely; “ It reminded me of the omegaverse. I try to stay away from omegaverse because of the rape, force relationships, etc. Most of the time with “the heats” the uke does not even have a say and sometimes force into relationships with people they hated than after they love them. From the ones I tried, a lot of the ukes hates the heats and some hated who the seme was. I don’t mind male pregnancies, I just don’t like the brutal rapes, and not having a choice in who they will be with the rest of their lives. Relationships are about love. And Maya and Nemu relationship is not like that, not even the beginning. It was different. I prefer Hidoku shitanide over many manga. Maybe I have read the wrong omegaverse mangas… it seems popular but most seem cringy. (Sorry to the ones that likes omegaverse. You can enjoy, I am just saying it is not my cup of tea for the most part. And 9 times out of 10 explaining my thoughts badly.)
I do also enjoying discussing the story, I have had many more good points after that post. Thank you for your replies.

Thank you. =^.^= and no problem. When people shut other people downs, it is more about their beliefs, their unwilling to learn, and to change. It has nothing about your beliefs. Just stand by your beliefs but grow and learn as you get more information. Knowledge is power. Some that is a narcissist will be always right even when they know they are wrong and your right. Therefore do not let others get you down. STAND STRONG!! =^.^= Thanks again

or maybe... the author was not very serious In the beginning but later on she suddenly had the urge to continue the story.

Lol I thought the same thing xD

Skeppy Sorry I forgot about your comment. I was thinking about what you said and how it applied to my topic.

I am not sure of Nekota Yonezou sensei original goals for this Hidoku Shinaide... So you could be right or she was serious. For what I read she did seem serious but that could had been material after a point when she continue the story.

I was going to respond to you with a comment like that but I was taking back by why did I get a reply that seems off beat with my topic. my topic focuses on the beginning chapters with the rest as back up.

However the main point of my topic is saying that the currently Maya has changed and he should be judged on who he is now not the toxic person he was before Nemu changed him. And the beginning while he is guilty of black mail, threats, sexual assault, deceiving Nemu but in depending on how you look at Rape maybe not something he is guilty of because how it is wrote and how Nemu reacted. After reading this story I get to understand Maya and Nemu, I think Nemu liked Maya but for how Maya acted and looked he was scared of him as well, that is before the manga started. I don't think Nemu even understood he like Maya. He is dense.

So, can you explain what your comment meant to my topic. I understand what you put and it could be true. I just don't understand how it relates to my topic. I am not connected it, it could be cause I had not read my topic in a while. And also my head is filled with Korean and Japanese because I have been translating for Lack of Love, and two other manga/webtoons. Also, school and a job.

Hehe, what you wrote is interesting. After reading your reply, I realized that my comment does not really fully relate to what you said. Sorry. Just forget about it...