I usually heavily dislike posting anything on here, but I think this is important.
People need to stop prioritizing fictional characters over real people, especially when it comes to victims and survivors. It's causing an empathy drought.
I oftentimes feel that in fandoms, people care way more for the fictional victims & survivors, rather than the real victims/survivors. Then people will ostracize and demonize the survivors for not "being the perfect victim", when the perfect victim does not exist and never will, not even in death. Real people should hold more of a priority than fictional characters and I struggle to understand why I see more empathy and sympathy for victims and survivors portrayed in fiction rather than survivors IRL. It's especially difficult to understand for me, because people have such an odd, preconceived notion about how victims must forever stay traumatized, be pure and repulsed (by intimacy, for example), etc and they enforce judgement on people for coping in unconventional manners. This kind of behavior screams projection and a lot of the time, people start sounding victim-blamey. I truly wish people treated victims and us survivors with much more respect, understanding, and patience. Because we definitely need it.
I recently came across some posts where they were blaming a rape victim to how are they not embarassed to read toxic yaoi instead of therapy. And how are they blameless. Even when the victim kept explaining that it's their therapist who recommended to do so, as Fictional stories are a safe way to explore your traumas and help you. Somehow 20 year olds started getting Degree in psychology and said they should be gang raped to know what THE VICTIM IN THAT STORY feels btw, to an actual victim...
It truly is so confusing to me, because none of these people are well-versed in psychology, nor do they know what works and what doesn’t for survivors. Reading something doesn’t equal endorsement. I also wish people would get this idea of having to be comforted by everything they read in their heads, because some stories are SUPPOSED to make you uncomfortable and disturbed. If you don’t like them, don’t read them, but you don’t have the right to bash, insult, and wish harm on others for reading it. It’s weird as hell
It truly is so confusing to me, because none of these people are well-versed in psychology, nor do they know what works and what doesn’t for survivors. Reading something doesn’t equal endorsement. I also wi... Lian
I also wish people would get this idea of having to be comforted by everything they read outside** of their heads. Abysmal typo, I apologize.
Sorry, I just have a few questions cuz this is the first time I've ever heard ppl apparently prioritizing fictional victims over victims irl.
Firstly, wdym by projection?? Since u used the word "we", I'm guessing that someone has hurt u in a way.. so wdym? Secondly, connected to the first question, what did they do or say?? How is it victim blamey? I'm just rlly curious, cuz what in the world lollll I'm so confused.
I'm gonna be honest, I don't think I've ever rlly seen anyone blaming real life survivors for being "strong", there's a lot of people out there who act totally normal, sane, and stronggg as heck despite surviving something traumatic. Sure, there's still the same ppl who victim blame certain victims, claiming it's cuz of their clothes... But other than that?
I need a bit more context, sorry this is just rlly surprising to me lol and I don't quite get it.
this is more prominent in dead dove space tbh. plenty of ppl will make media with taboo topic (noncon/dubcon, large age gap, incest etc) and others will accuse them for being a rapist/pedo/groomer or all of the above. the creator will inevitably disclose their traumatic past and what their therapist say to defend themselves yet some ppl will be vile enough to say things like they deserve it, their therapist is a liar/not competent or there's better way to cope than with fiction
it puts pressure on victims to be flawless and pure, no coping with dark fiction or else "they're no better than their abuser"
this is more prominent in dead dove space tbh. plenty of ppl will make media with taboo topic (noncon/dubcon, large age gap, incest etc) and others will accuse them for being a rapist/pedo/groomer or all of the... blue cave
Absolutely! A lot of the things I read tend to gravitate towards psychological, horror, and dead dove as it’s usually called, and I don’t understand why people online think they have the right to tell survivors they “deserved” their trauma because the survivor doesn’t cope in ways that the people unaffected expect. Pressuring survivors, insulting them, threatening them, etc just because they’re not “perfect”, “pure”, and/or “pitiful” does not help anyone in any way, especially survivors. A good portion of survivors even avoid speaking out and getting help BECAUSE of these types of people. I see more empathy and sympathy for fictional survivors, saying that they’re so powerful for doing this or that or pitying them to such great extent while barely any of that is expressed for real life survivors and victims. It’s really shocking to me.
You’re good, no need to apologize. I do appreciate you asking, actually. First off, my English might not be very good as it’s nowhere near my first language, so pardon any errors. Thank you!
The majority of what I spoke about tends to be centric around how people react to survivors reading taboo/disturbing content. I’ve faced a lot of the things I talked about in my original post and a lot of the people I’ve interacted with, whether one-on-one or through forums, have had similar input. A lot of the time, people will be more empathetic and sympathetic towards fictional survivors because:
1) they’re fictional, and thus can be projected onto, though this is done by the people who are unaffected and by survivors as well.
I, myself, am a survivor and tend to gravitate towards taboo/disturbing stories and ones with a good amount of angst fairly often. It’s helpful for me and I’ve never had trouble with this because it allows me a safe space to reflect and look into myself, it allows me to do some needed introspection in a place with no judgement and external input from other people. It’s also useful for me as it allows me to confront past experiences and certain aspects of myself that I may have difficulty doing when I’m not alone.
The reason as to why I mentioned projection is because it can be a doube-edged sword for everyone.
For people who are unaffected/lack knowledge of whatever is being shown in the story, they can project onto what they do understand and obviously there is a lot of subjectivity when you’re projecting onto a character and/or story, regardless of your experiences. This also leads to these kinds of thoughts: “Well, if I was [character name] I wouldn’t do [this], I’d do [this]!”, and it can also lead to people projecting this kind of mindset onto survivors (and this happens between survivors as well, actually), such as saying “Well if you’re a survivor, shouldn’t you feel [this emotion] and do [certain action] about this?”, “Go get help, it’s that simple”, etc etc. I’m not entirely sure if the word for this is projection, but that’s how I understand it. They (whether it be someone who is also a survivor or not) project what they’d feel and do and whatnot in that situation onto a survivor, and not only is this insensitive, it’s also very unnecessary. I see it a lot in fandoms (especially BL spaces?) where people think that if you don’t cope in ways they think is good for you or ways they deem conventional, they treat you very weirdly.
I read a lot of BL and a good portion of what I read can be fairly angsty and disturbing, and I’ve been told by people who don’t even know me that I am a “risk”, “should be caged/locked up”, or they say that I’m not a “real survivor” because I don’t list my triggers and because I do not avoid things that could make me uncomfortable and/or disturb me. It often feels like I’m being infantilized and objectified because of so many expectations on what “kind” of survivor I “should be” based on other people’s opinions and beliefs.
It’s odd because even if the fictional survivor in the story isn’t a good character, that seems to be okay (and sometimes outright praised) because they are fictional, their flaws (even the ones that are practically in your face) can be ignored and pushed to the side, and you can baby them and pity them to your heart’s content. You can pity them and excuse what they do no matter what it is because they are fictional. But with people IRL, you can’t ignore their bad traits and flaws, you can’t ignore what they say or do, and you can’t baby them or pity them as much as you can with fictional characters. You can’t excuse what they do either. There’s this weird gap between how survivors are treated in fiction and how they’re treated IRL and it causes a lot of black-and-white thinking. Treating people with understanding and respect should not be a moral dilemma, but common courtesy and basic human decency.
You don’t really see this kind of behavior IRL (but it does happen, depending on who you’re friends with) but you see it a lot online, especially on social media. It’s very weird, to me. I don’t understand why survivors are blamed and even outright insulted and threatened for being different, not reacting in expected ways, and coping unconventionally when it’s really not that hard to just want the best for them and treat them with respect and understanding just as you’d do with any other person. Nobody “deserves” their trauma, regardless of who they are I think that’s an incredibly insensitive and outright disgusting thing to say to someone. I hope this explains some of it.
this is more prominent in dead dove space tbh. plenty of ppl will make media with taboo topic (noncon/dubcon, large age gap, incest etc) and others will accuse them for being a rapist/pedo/groomer or all of the... blue cave
Ahh, I see. Idk what's dead dove, and tbh a simple Google search will prove them that this is infact true... Ik how fked up it may sound like, but from what I researched(from a long time ago so I'm not sure if what I'm saying is accurate), that some ppl who experience trauma somehow develop a "fetish" in that said trauma. And I'm pretty sure that it's a healthy mechanism to indulge in that fictionally no?? Even irl, as long as both are consenting adults. Not sure, maybe I'm just yapping bllsht, but this is what I remember (￣∇￣")
You’re good, no need to apologize. I do appreciate you asking, actually. First off, my English might not be very good as it’s nowhere near my first language, so pardon any errors. Thank you!The majority of ... Lian
Tysm, I definitely understand what u mean now. Honestly, I think MOST ppl don't understand that ppl with trauma can cope like this. I bet it sounds ridiculous and even shocking to hear that this can happen, so I get why they don't believe u. I can disclose what trauma I went through, but that's literally what I'm doing rn lol it's not rlly disturbing, but definitely morally.. not it. If someone finds out that I indulge in "this", they'd for sure call me all sorts of insults lol and say I'm even a hypocrite (cuz I DESPISE ppl who do "this", yet I'm somehow into this.. fictionally ofc lol.) I used to think I'm fucked up for liking this, while also gagggginggg when someone irl does it.. and when I looked it up, I realized that I'm not actually alone and that this is actually healthy coping mechanism. TT
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I recently came across some posts where they were blaming a rape victim to how are they not embarassed to read toxic yaoi instead of therapy. And how are they blameless. Even when the victim kept explaining that it's their therapist who recommended to do so, as Fictional stories are a safe way to explore your traumas and help you. Somehow 20 year olds started getting Degree in psychology and said they should be gang raped to know what THE VICTIM IN THAT STORY feels btw, to an actual victim...
It truly is so confusing to me, because none of these people are well-versed in psychology, nor do they know what works and what doesn’t for survivors. Reading something doesn’t equal endorsement. I also wish people would get this idea of having to be comforted by everything they read in their heads, because some stories are SUPPOSED to make you uncomfortable and disturbed. If you don’t like them, don’t read them, but you don’t have the right to bash, insult, and wish harm on others for reading it. It’s weird as hell
I also wish people would get this idea of having to be comforted by everything they read outside** of their heads. Abysmal typo, I apologize.
Sorry, I just have a few questions cuz this is the first time I've ever heard ppl apparently prioritizing fictional victims over victims irl.
Firstly, wdym by projection?? Since u used the word "we", I'm guessing that someone has hurt u in a way.. so wdym? Secondly, connected to the first question, what did they do or say?? How is it victim blamey? I'm just rlly curious, cuz what in the world lollll I'm so confused.
I'm gonna be honest, I don't think I've ever rlly seen anyone blaming real life survivors for being "strong", there's a lot of people out there who act totally normal, sane, and stronggg as heck despite surviving something traumatic. Sure, there's still the same ppl who victim blame certain victims, claiming it's cuz of their clothes... But other than that?
I need a bit more context, sorry this is just rlly surprising to me lol and I don't quite get it.
this is more prominent in dead dove space tbh. plenty of ppl will make media with taboo topic (noncon/dubcon, large age gap, incest etc) and others will accuse them for being a rapist/pedo/groomer or all of the above. the creator will inevitably disclose their traumatic past and what their therapist say to defend themselves yet some ppl will be vile enough to say things like they deserve it, their therapist is a liar/not competent or there's better way to cope than with fiction
it puts pressure on victims to be flawless and pure, no coping with dark fiction or else "they're no better than their abuser"
Absolutely! A lot of the things I read tend to gravitate towards psychological, horror, and dead dove as it’s usually called, and I don’t understand why people online think they have the right to tell survivors they “deserved” their trauma because the survivor doesn’t cope in ways that the people unaffected expect. Pressuring survivors, insulting them, threatening them, etc just because they’re not “perfect”, “pure”, and/or “pitiful” does not help anyone in any way, especially survivors. A good portion of survivors even avoid speaking out and getting help BECAUSE of these types of people. I see more empathy and sympathy for fictional survivors, saying that they’re so powerful for doing this or that or pitying them to such great extent while barely any of that is expressed for real life survivors and victims. It’s really shocking to me.
You’re good, no need to apologize. I do appreciate you asking, actually. First off, my English might not be very good as it’s nowhere near my first language, so pardon any errors. Thank you!
The majority of what I spoke about tends to be centric around how people react to survivors reading taboo/disturbing content. I’ve faced a lot of the things I talked about in my original post and a lot of the people I’ve interacted with, whether one-on-one or through forums, have had similar input. A lot of the time, people will be more empathetic and sympathetic towards fictional survivors because:
1) they’re fictional, and thus can be projected onto, though this is done by the people who are unaffected and by survivors as well.
I, myself, am a survivor and tend to gravitate towards taboo/disturbing stories and ones with a good amount of angst fairly often. It’s helpful for me and I’ve never had trouble with this because it allows me a safe space to reflect and look into myself, it allows me to do some needed introspection in a place with no judgement and external input from other people. It’s also useful for me as it allows me to confront past experiences and certain aspects of myself that I may have difficulty doing when I’m not alone.
The reason as to why I mentioned projection is because it can be a doube-edged sword for everyone.
For people who are unaffected/lack knowledge of whatever is being shown in the story, they can project onto what they do understand and obviously there is a lot of subjectivity when you’re projecting onto a character and/or story, regardless of your experiences. This also leads to these kinds of thoughts: “Well, if I was [character name] I wouldn’t do [this], I’d do [this]!”, and it can also lead to people projecting this kind of mindset onto survivors (and this happens between survivors as well, actually), such as saying “Well if you’re a survivor, shouldn’t you feel [this emotion] and do [certain action] about this?”, “Go get help, it’s that simple”, etc etc. I’m not entirely sure if the word for this is projection, but that’s how I understand it. They (whether it be someone who is also a survivor or not) project what they’d feel and do and whatnot in that situation onto a survivor, and not only is this insensitive, it’s also very unnecessary. I see it a lot in fandoms (especially BL spaces?) where people think that if you don’t cope in ways they think is good for you or ways they deem conventional, they treat you very weirdly.
I read a lot of BL and a good portion of what I read can be fairly angsty and disturbing, and I’ve been told by people who don’t even know me that I am a “risk”, “should be caged/locked up”, or they say that I’m not a “real survivor” because I don’t list my triggers and because I do not avoid things that could make me uncomfortable and/or disturb me. It often feels like I’m being infantilized and objectified because of so many expectations on what “kind” of survivor I “should be” based on other people’s opinions and beliefs.
It’s odd because even if the fictional survivor in the story isn’t a good character, that seems to be okay (and sometimes outright praised) because they are fictional, their flaws (even the ones that are practically in your face) can be ignored and pushed to the side, and you can baby them and pity them to your heart’s content. You can pity them and excuse what they do no matter what it is because they are fictional. But with people IRL, you can’t ignore their bad traits and flaws, you can’t ignore what they say or do, and you can’t baby them or pity them as much as you can with fictional characters. You can’t excuse what they do either. There’s this weird gap between how survivors are treated in fiction and how they’re treated IRL and it causes a lot of black-and-white thinking. Treating people with understanding and respect should not be a moral dilemma, but common courtesy and basic human decency.
You don’t really see this kind of behavior IRL (but it does happen, depending on who you’re friends with) but you see it a lot online, especially on social media. It’s very weird, to me. I don’t understand why survivors are blamed and even outright insulted and threatened for being different, not reacting in expected ways, and coping unconventionally when it’s really not that hard to just want the best for them and treat them with respect and understanding just as you’d do with any other person. Nobody “deserves” their trauma, regardless of who they are I think that’s an incredibly insensitive and outright disgusting thing to say to someone. I hope this explains some of it.
Ahh, I see. Idk what's dead dove, and tbh a simple Google search will prove them that this is infact true... Ik how fked up it may sound like, but from what I researched(from a long time ago so I'm not sure if what I'm saying is accurate), that some ppl who experience trauma somehow develop a "fetish" in that said trauma. And I'm pretty sure that it's a healthy mechanism to indulge in that fictionally no?? Even irl, as long as both are consenting adults. Not sure, maybe I'm just yapping bllsht, but this is what I remember (￣∇￣")
Tysm, I definitely understand what u mean now. Honestly, I think MOST ppl don't understand that ppl with trauma can cope like this. I bet it sounds ridiculous and even shocking to hear that this can happen, so I get why they don't believe u. I can disclose what trauma I went through, but that's literally what I'm doing rn lol it's not rlly disturbing, but definitely morally.. not it. If someone finds out that I indulge in "this", they'd for sure call me all sorts of insults lol and say I'm even a hypocrite (cuz I DESPISE ppl who do "this", yet I'm somehow into this.. fictionally ofc lol.) I used to think I'm fucked up for liking this, while also gagggginggg when someone irl does it.. and when I looked it up, I realized that I'm not actually alone and that this is actually healthy coping mechanism. TT
Also, ur English is literally perfect!! Wdymm!!!!