I never paid attention to that,but now that I'm re-reading azusaxkarino parts in chapter ...

sorry it was "why do you do this to me?"XD

and also I've noticed how Karino's attitude has changed. Yes,surprise surprise! It has changed XD At the beginning he said to Azusa "be someone who will beg me to fuck him" but now,he wants him to fight....so wtf is going on? To me it seems that after azusa tried that thing with the camera,karino changed his mind,so after that everything changed,it turned more and more into a game and kind of stopped the developing of the relationship (the first 4chapters were slowly developing their feelings but that visit to karino's home simply destroyed azusa's "dream" and ours lol..) yes I admit it,that page to me was more traumatizing than chap8 (￣∇￣")

Here is my take:*

Azusa never really paid enough attention to others to know he was not really popular. He had power and he believed himself to deserve it, so he didn't think about keeping power and managing class sentiment. He also thought the power didn't come from the card: There are people who use others and people who are used--Asuza thought himself the user.

Karino always had a thing for Asuza. He played the "best friend" more than the Jack, and he observed Asuza. Karino knew that if anyone said they liked Azusa, Asuza would just take that as a reason to use the other--it was a weakness. Maybe karino shares this opinion--IDK. So Karino even tested it out, before the game changed, and sure enough, Azusa tried to play Karino.

I imagine Karino being pissed that Azusa would try to play him. I imagine Karino still wanting Azusa, and thinking he'd have Azusa begging him soon. I think initially Karino did want that crying face and imagined that after that, Azusa would start to want Karino's protection.

But Azusa didn't play. And Karino found himself liking that. Karino might have been surprised at first, but then decided it was good that way. Maybe Karino even started to feel disappointed when it seemed like Azusa was accepting it instead of fighting him. So when Azusa got pissed about not being let into Karino's house, Karino was happy.

At a guess, Karino's kink is dominating someone strong who can fight and needs to be "punished". A true submissive would bore the crap out of him.

*This is just my interpretation and not the only way to see it

I never liked them as a couple. I don't care about Karino's feeling, he's a mess. I would love to see Azusa taking his revenge, not being romantically involved with that hypocrite. At the same time, Karino intrigues me. I mean, you don't have to team with a character to appreciate good writing and Karino surely is a great narrative invention. I'm extremely curious about his motivations: who is he? We have no idea. Azusa surprised. By now, he's by far my favourite, and no, I don't think he's a good guy, he was going to be a complete asshole without this experience. Kuze is the one I really want to see dead. They are all pretty disgusting - but Karino is the real captivating one (for me, of course). What the hell is on his mind?…. (I trust the mangaka, so I suppose it is not something as banal as "he's bored" or worst "he has family issues"). We'll see… I want next chapter with all my will. I want to see Azusa rise, and I'm pretty sure it will happen… although, nowhere soon. The story is successful, so… we'll have to wait….

I didn't meant to dislike it, I'm sorry. ╥﹏╥

it's nothing serious,don't worry ^-^

yes,I know what you mean. A part of me wants them together and happy ever after,but the other one sees the relationship as suffocating and not equal. Azusa is treated as a toy,is being crushed mentally,and I'd hate it if they claimed "love" out of the blue. It's very complicated. Also,I consider Azusa as a good person,of course he has made mistakes but he grew in an environment without love,where he saw the darkest side of people,where his mother was abused and nice people didn't exist. Where the so called "good" people didn't lay a hand to help,so it's understandable that he doesn't believe in goodness,nor love,nor friendship and through that game,for the first time he can be on the other side and take his little revenge before being treated as human trash again in real life. So,I really can't consider him a bad person or twisted or something like that,he's crushed no matter how many times he denies it. That's why I love his character so much,he's so fragile but strong at the same time <3

yeah sure,I agree on Karino's part. But I think Azusa knew that he was hated by many,he exploited them and even Karino said to him that he shouldn't have made so many enemies. Azusa acts all strong but he was touched by Kusakabe's help. Also,he seemed comfortable around Karino so,in the end,I believed he felt betrayed and disappointed. But I may be wrong,let's say I love them and always try to find something a little bit "sweet" ╮(￣▽￣)╭

Maybe Azusa knew but didn't care. I honestly don't think that Azusa was that bad in the beginning. I think that anyone who is king in that system is given the role of lead bully (the whole mask thing). I do think Azusa had less of an understanding of the big picture outside of school--the one where Karino is going to be a king for the rest of his life. So I guess I think it not so much that Azusa didn't know as he didn't know he was supposed to care if he wanted to keep power. I don't mean Azusa is bad, just that like most teens he never thought about more than high school the way it is right now. Living in the "now" Azusa enjoyed it without thinking three steps ahead. Now, Azusa is starting to do that, but more to f*ck with Karino than to plan his own future.

I think all of the seme's (with the possible exception of ch 11 and the fluffy extra) are better at plotting the "three steps ahead" than most, and that the ukes don't see that (except for the current Azusa, who was kicked in the head and found enlightenment).

Azusa has been through a lot,and is the realest. He has made some mistakes,but living such a life makes someone hate people I guess, he has only seen their worst so why should he care? when they found out his mother was a prostitute they discriminated him,he only saw the bad side of people,funny thing,even his "lover" is a twisted person. Azusa isn't bad,while Karino is what azusa wants to be but can never become,not only because of money but also because he has a kind heart despite his strong act. Azusa is a babe *^*

I should thank all of you for your interpretations, I found them deeper than my own, reason being, this story reminds me a lot of a certain kind of literature that has many meanings but not those you girls found, and are absolutely realistic. What you just wrote reminds me of a psychoanalytic concept, "subconscious recognizes itself". Meaning that we might even have an ideal type, but we match with someone who is similar to us. I can't get to like Karino, but I guess Azusa does. Somehow, this is mesmerizing but also very, very sad, because, no matter what, Karino only deserves a big failure in his life. There's definitely something about the way japanese see society - for them power is something good in itself. Money and position are good, of course they are everywhere, but when they hyde such a manipulative, violent, disgusting kind of person, they cannot be considered as values anymore. Karino represents all that is wrong in western society. The more I read it, the more disgusting he is to my eyes. I know Azusa is much better than him, but still, he needed a kick to his head to become somewhere decent. In real life, people like that easily become evil. So, I stay by his side, but still.

This manga actually reminds me of a movie "The White Ribbon", the movie is about an evil society, where people's social status, punishments, run a small German village. The kids in the village go from innocent(the white ribbon is a symbol of innocence,when a kid does something bad they must wear the ribbon) to being like their parents. They start seeing the world from their parents view and nothing changes,everything repeats again and again. I love that movie. This manga is so good and Ogawa is simply amazing, I've never read a yaoi with such a plot and depth, but deep down,I secretly wish for a happy ending XDXD

I saw that movie too. Definitely a good one, I wouldn't suggest it to many people, because most people easily get scared. Like they want to ignore that some things are possible. I think this manga is absolutely brilliant, I would say, it's a wasted inspiration for a great novel (the right writer easily makes a best seller out of this idea), but no, I won't, because I love the way she draws too much. I really like the way she draws.

I've often felt that many of us are really looking for someone whose demons play well with ours. I think the problem is that that we can recognize some things in others that fit with us, but that other parts of their personality might not. I think maybe they do recognize a certain amount of "one of my kind" in the other--but their differences are still an issue.

…so true.