This bitch

I ran to the comments to yell this and I’m glad someone already did it for me.

The man is drunk both of them are

If you accidentaly murder someone while drunk driving, it's still murder, the same way that if you r4p3 someone while drunk it's still r4p3, being drunk or high isn't a excuse to r4p3, take advantage or do anything else to someone.

The thing is, at that point in time, none of them were in the right frame of mind. Not saying it isnt rape, but chiwoo should take some of the blame too. He did kiss hwan first without consent. I dont understand why yall only on hwan when chiwoo did something wrong also. Its very unfair to only blame him.

Chiwoo was dazed and gave him a little peck and passed out, Hwan forcefully kissed him and proced to have sexual intercourse with someone who wasn't able to even grasp the situation. Sure, it is wrong to smooch someone that is sleep, but it's way worse to rape someone for the same reason and It does not justifies. Someone can also kiss you first, but that doesn't it mean that just because of that you can just decide to fuck them, specially when they can't properly consent or defend themselves.

But you are missing the point. As i said before, both of them were out of it. Its not like hwan was sober. Both of them were drunk. That situation is different from this. Chiwoo literally kissed him without consent, doesnt matter if it was a peck or full blown tongue on tongue action. Hwan may have gone a bit too far, but chiwoo is also to blame. The only reason why everyone us on hwan is bc he did the deed with him.

*is

Yes, people are mad at him for rapping Chiwoo and because everyone has a Basic sense of notion of understanding than one behavior doesn't justifies the other. Chiwoo is clearly way more out of it and passing out than Hwan. The peck wasn't right, like previously said, BUT IT ISNT A EXCUSE OR CONSENT. You're victim blaming.

I feel like you're forgetting that in a previously chapter Hwan also did take advantage of Chiwoo while he was sober, or did you forgot when Chiwoo was sleeping Hwan masturbated and came on top of him? In that scene Hwan was completely sober.

Both of them being drunk doesn't justifies rape. If you can use being drunk as an excuse for Hwan not being in the right mind, then you can realize that Chiwoo was even more drunk and passing out, unable to CONSENT OR DEFEND himself. Why is it being drunk only a valid excused for the rapist and It does not mean anything for the one who was rapped?

Where did i say it wasnt rape? I have stated in both my responses that it is. And im not talking about previous chapters. The recent chapter is a flashback,which means that was the first time they had sex. In the previous chapters, he was sober and had already had sex with him multiple times when he couldnt give consent. Thats is rape. And how am i victim blaming? In any case, both of them are victims to the influence of alcohol. And nowhere did i say that both of them being drunk justifies rape. All im saying is that in this situation, its either both of them to blame or neither. Pls read my comments caregully if you are going to reply so i dont have to repeat myself

Plus... even if chiwoo was way more drunk than hwan, doesnt mean that hwan was in the right frame of mind when he did those acts

*carefully

I do not know if it's not intentional but, all your comments sound like you're trying to give an excuse for Hwans behavior and throw the blame on Chiwoo, or "also on Chiwoo", therefore victim blaming. Yes, I did re-read your comments, yes it's the same conclusion.

• "I'm not saying it's not rape, I'm saying...." It's a sentence who clearly sounds like you're trying to justify someones behavior, in that case, rape. "They were both drunk/ he was out of it" yes, they were both under the influence, like said before that does not justifies raping someone, you know how manny cases happen in real life where someone who's either high or drunk rapes someone else? Way to manny and just like accidentaly killing someone while drunk driving is still murder, rapping someone while you're under the influence is still rape, being drunk is not a excuse.

• You keep saying that Hwan is out of it like that justifies his behavior, we know his personality and that he would the same sober (he literally controls the monsters who have been abusing Chiwoo and did himself similar things before), If you are able to realize that Hwan is drunk and out of it, you are able to realize that Chiwoo is way more drunk, passing out, not even fully aware of his surrounds, confused, dazed, therefore unable to CONSENT OR DEFEND himself. Yes, If does matter If someone is way more drunk than the other, It matter because among other things, it shows than one of them is able to think more clearly than the other, for instance realizing the their "partner" is passed out while you're forcing your tongue in their mouth.

• Kissing someone does equal consent, wanting to have sexual intercourse or be willing to have it. Kissing someone does not justifies them rapping you, specially not when you gave them a little peck and passed out. Kissing someone is not as worse as rapping someone. Giving someone a small peck while is still wrong but it does not EQUAL OR JUSTIFIES rape. Kissing someone does not make you at fault If they rape you, does not mean you're at the blame for being rapped, does not mean It was your fault for being rapped, does not mean you're "also to blame" for being rapped, does not mean "you're also wrong" when you were rapped.

• "You kissed me first, you kissed them, etc" is one of the most comum used lines to victim blame, one of the most known reasons why victims blame themselves for years and the fact that you don't even realize that what you're saying is something that people use all to the time to try to justify rape and blame the victims in real life or to aknowledge that what you're doing and saying it's in fact victim blaming it's concerning. "He was a victim of the influence of alcohol/ Either they are both to blame or neither" and yet you ask me how you're victim blaming or coming across as being drunk justifying rape.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to make you hate the character or the story, I'm trying to make you realize that what Hwan did was wrong and he is to blame and that honestly he would do and has done similar things while sober. Hwan is obssessed with Chiwoo since chilldhood, would be angry that Chiwoo had other people around, was happy when his parents died and he became traumatized and antisocial because it meant he would only depend on him, he's also the Prince of darkness who controls the monsters who attack Chiwoo, he's obssessed, possessive, manipulative, I lost the count of how manny times he fake cried and smiled when Chiwoo wasn't looking or "convinced" Chiwoo to do something he didn't want to, he also forcefully and behind Chiwoo's back took him out of the closet for their mom, which could have gone a horrible way if she wasn't okay with it, since she was the only family he had left and loosing her would destroy him even more, something Hwan didn't seem to care, he also was somewhat forcefully before in their sexual life, "convinced" him to do things he didn't want to in places he didn't want to and have took advantage of Chiwoo sexually before, while he was sleeping and Hwan was completely sober, having sexual intercourse with someone does not mean consent do whatever you want with them while they are sleeping either. After all of this has been said I don't understand how people try to say that Hwan only did this because wasn't in the right mind or because he was drunk, when he clearly would have done the same thing sober in a heartbeat. You don't have to dislike Hwan to realize his personality by now and the manny wrong acts he did before and how he's obssessed, manipulative and would easily do it all again.

I don't know what else to tell you, I honestly don't, because you either know exactly what you're saying or you really don't understand what you're saying, and I don't know if that means you are young, naive, not informed, dumb or just plain ignorant, but either way I shouldn't be the one who had re-read your -toxic- comments, that you don't even realize are toxic, maybe that's why you don't understand why people are mad to one character and not the other. I'm gonna walk away from this because this is conversation is making me
want cry, feel free to reply but I doubt I will answer back, so I will apologize for it already.

Typo fixing: "• Kissing someone does NOT equal consent, wanting"

To manny typos to fix them all and like previously stated I don't want to be part of this thread anymore, I believe you can understand what I tried to say even with the typos and If not, I apologize. I guess at the end I made clear that I didn't miss your point, I saw your point and replied with how it sounds like and why it does. Not even sure if it really matters, since at the end if you're really want to still think the same thing you will anyways. I guess at the end, I can only hope you are not going to say the same thing you do about a fictional rape case, to a victim in a real life case, because at least fictional characters aren't real and are not going to live with that in their heads for the rest of their life, don't get me wrong, I still don't think It makes it right. Anyways, hope you're having a good day/night.

To me, victim blaming is only blaming the victim and not the other person. This is not what im trying to do whatsoever. Its obvious that the hwan now is a piece of shit that loves to take advantage of chiwoo. You also keep saying ' that chiwoo is way more drunk', in which i think you are trying to say that hwan was somewhat sane when he took advantage of him. No matter if he was more drunk, it still doesnt deny that both of them were. And how are my comments toxic? In a situation where both of them didnt know what they were doing? All i said was blame both or non, never ' its only chiwoo's fault,' because i know it isnt in this situation, but its unfair to only blame hwan. I am not talking about situations that took place in precious chapters. People are forgetting that this situation took place way before he got into the continous act of taking advantage of him while he cannot give consent.

You also kept twisting my words and putting it in a way like i said that he didnt rape him, or that kissing was consent, and that him being drunk justifies what he did, which is unfair bc that wasnt my intention and i did make it clear so many times that it wasnt in the first place. And i did say that both of them were victims. Never did i say that chiwoo wasnt.

Even if you dont respond to the whole message, just answer this. If a 'lightly' drunk person was the one that started a kiss with a ' heavily' drunk person and they end up having sex, being that the 'heavily' drunk person was the one that 'puts it in' and you walk into that scene, what would've your initial thought?

To add on to the question

The lightly drunk person goes up to you and says that that were raped by the heavily drunk person, you not knowing that info

I hope you’re never in the position where someone who was raped by a “slightly drunk person” were to ask you for help, only to have you respond, “ok. But how drunk were YOU?”

I had decided to stop replying and ignore this person after realizing they wouldn't or couldn't understand so I didn't read their reply, your comment confused me so I decided to read and I just kept staring at the screen questioning humanity.

Something that I found really weird about their comment is that I stated multiple times that if your partner is drunk or passed out they can't consent, therefore is rape and they still didn't understand my point and asked this question. They are also way to focused on who "put it in", it makes me think they forgot the fact that for example: a man can be rapped by a woman. All I could think about was that by their "people are mad at Hwan just because he put in" logic, because a woman does not have a dick and she woud put the intoxicated man dick inside her, do they think that would not be rape or something? In what world does that make sense? I really don't understand because I also said that if you both drunk but your partner is passed out, you should be able to realize that while you're shoving your tongue in their mouth. The same way that there a manny real life cases where a intoxicated person rapes the other, one of most asked questions asked to rape victims is "Were you sober?" and they still don't understand why does what they say come across as victim blaming or trying to racionalize rape and give a excuse to the rapist.

At this day and age everyone should be able to understand how consent works. It's basic human decency to understand that a intoxicated or unconcious person can't consent, that the victim is never "also to blame", that a kiss does not mean consent and that you can change your mind even if you were willing to have intercourse before and should be respect for it, if the other part keeps going even thought their partner made clear or indicated they changed their mind, it is still rape, finally, iniciating anything does not mean that you want to or need to finish it.

I completely agree with you, the first question in someone's mind should never be "were you intoxicated/how intoxicated were you?" and the only reason why was brought up that Chiwoo was more intoxicated than Hwan was because some people were trying justify the act by saying they were both drunk but, because Chiwoo was literally passing out, it was a example of even if "both of them were drunk" was a valid excuse, which IT ISN'T VALID AT ALL, he was unable to consent, apparently they didn't get that. I feel like they also didn't realize that in this specific case, being a fictional work and how we are the readers, we have access to all facts, but it's not always like that in real life. Even if the victim was completely sober and the other part wasn't, if they did not or could not consent to having sexual intercourse, it would still be rape, same way it would if the victim was intoxicated and the other part was sober or like in this case, if they both were intoxicated.

Is beyond me the how or why can someone not understand that people aren't mad at a character for "putting it in", they are actually mad at a character who rapped the other one, who was not only drunk, what would have made it wrong and rape already, but also passed out and barely conscious. It's not about "who put it in", is about who took advantage of someone else when the person was UNABLE to consent and defend themselves. I'm sure I said that last part before, I'm not sure if they will eventually understand that and I honestly think I was right in deciding to ignore them, this did not make any sense, they even said I twisted their words when what I said and what I based my response from can be found in their comments, I wrote from my memory so I may have got a word wrong, which I did apologized for typos and mistakes, but I don't think I twisted their words, at this point it just feels more like they don't even realize how they are coming across.

I'm sorry, I ended up ranting in your reply ;-;

About how the previous chapters are important or relate to this Thread:
This specific flashback takes place when Hwan got off the military and they were drinking, before that we had multiple flashbacks that passed before this, of both of them growing up that build both characters and showcased us their personality, behaviors and overall actions, in Hwan's case the author have showcased how manipulative, obssessed and possessive, and overall not much of a good person he can be, the reason I keep pointing out the previous chapters and his past behaviors and actions, thoughts is just to add to up in how the "he only did because he was drunk" thing that some people said, doesn't make sense, since based in everything we know about Hwan as a character, there's a high possibility that he would have done the same thing if he was sober and the fact I keep bringing up the specific action that he did once while Chiwoo was sleeping, even thought I don't fully remember if that one was a flashback, is because it makes you realize how we don't know how manny times he did the same thing while they're growing up, but based on his personality, actions and behaviors it's honestly hard to believe he did that just this one time that was showed to us, specially now that we know he rapped Chiwoo before, in this chapter specific flashback.

About anything else that was said:
It feels like you don't realize what you're saying or how you're coming across, because everything that I said was based on your comments, even if not word for word. For example: you did pointed out multiple times that they were both drunk and that Chiwoo "kissed" Hwan first.

I believe the last thing I could possibly add (since the incredible rant up there can explain to you about the thing you wanted a answer to) is that Victim Blaming is: somehow implying that the Victim is at fault, or ALSO AT FAULT and you come across as doing that since you keep saying that they are "both to blame" and "both drunk". It does not matter if they were both drunk or if one "kissed" the other first, the person which CHOOSED to take that small peck followed by passing out as – and I apologize for my choice of words – "Please fuck me daddy", and proceeded to do sexual actions to the other person – even thought said person was UNCONCIOUS, at times BARELY CONCIOUS, still heavily DRUNK and completely UNABLE TO CONSENT OR DEFEND THEMSELVES – is at wrong and is the one to blame, ALONE, because once again that IT'S NOT CONSENT, – forgive me for this pause to add that it also does not help your point, when this is being added to the fact that you think and have expressed that it's "unfair" to blame only the one who rapped but doesn't seem to realize that it's ACTUALLY unfair to blame/"also blame" the one who got rapped (Hwan/Chiwoo, in that order, in this specific fictional case). Following throught – THE VICTIM is not ever "ALSO TO BLAME", the ENTIRETY of the "either both are to blame or neither" logic is wrong and VICTIM BLAMING by itself.

I don't think I can possibly say anything else that I have not said or repeated multiple times before and I still believe that walking away from this was my best decision, so like you asked me once I ask you to, in case of any other doubt, re-read my comments and even your own comments, calmly, and maybe you are going to understand both what I'm trying to say this entire time and how you are coming across. Again, I don't think there's any possibility of me being able to add anything else to this Thread, so I'm walking away from it and I hope you're having a good day/night.