The worst a villain, the sweeter is the redemption, I guess. Also controversial relationships get more traction than fluffy relationships because people mosty bl readers (trending) read stories with tropes like this a lot, if only to wait for the redemption arc lol. It's not even the chinese, but also a lot of Korean BLs do this.
In any case, possessive/obsessive/rape behaviour has been normalized in many popular cultures - even in the west. Franchises like the twilight or the 50 shades of grey thing...people read such awful behaviour from characters, only to revel in the redemption arc later on. So I don't think it's particular to only bl or to only Chinese BL.
I don't think people think such stories are even remotely close to reality, and take them as only as stories (of course some people have a rape sex roleplay kinda lol but it's their private life)
As long as someone takes a fictional story only as a story and not a depiction of reality, it's whatever. People who can't distinguish fantasy from reality are the real morons - the authors can write whatever they want because that's their liberty to do so. That's just what I think.
EXACTLY!!!
preach
Wow, you explained it in the best way one can understand. I have searched up for information that is given mostly by psychologists who did research in this genre, well it is partially appeared to be related to the every individual reader's "traumatic or non traumatic" experiences mostly connected to the traditional families they are grown up in.
I try to explain it with simple words. Most asian families are conservative families, so women's position in family and society can be imagined easily. Women want to be loved "to the point of obsession " and feel safe under the wings of "powerful" . This is where we can see how female readers connect themselves to the most cliche stories, in terms of shoujo as well as bl.
Why bl, it is appeared to be women who had negative experience in a relationship with opposite gender, unconsciously wishes for "revenge"
In a form of seeing opposite gender as weak or powerless as themselves. so they can connect to the story through as most call "uke" protagonist. I tried to explain it properly but excuse my broken English. But there are readers who unconsciously connect to the story by imagining their alter selves in places of characters.
The main point of my comment is the root comes from the real life problems/traumas, which is why readers look for the redemption/release their desire through such stories. That sound a bit creepy sorry. But it is what I found from the research materials of the psychologist explaining bl getting more attention from the Audience in recent days.
I don't think it's due to the "traditional" family upbringing or not, or whether it's west or east, it's a common human disposition to tolerate the worst if you know you're going to see a beast get tamed by someone much weaker than him
I think it's a popular trope because it's one of those "Love changes everyone, even the ones who couldn't be changed by anything" the love of the pure MC saves the ML from self-destruction, or shows him a better view of the world.
Psychology isn't really a science, so I take it more as an opinion, than fact. I'm Asian, so I know what you mean, but even in conservative families, women have their own individual identity which they reinforce with monetary independence. It's very backward and in only extreme cases where women are attracted to men because of said "protection" from the world.
It's just sexually attractive to see someone who doesn't care about anything in the world to care about you, or fall in love with you because you're everything they're lacking. I think people are fond of seeing unconventional and unequal relationships (because that's what happens irl, nobody is really equal in a relationship because we're all unique)
Twilight and Fifty shades of grey or other fucked up franchises were so popular partly because they played on the fantasies rather than the reality of the world - a monster who is not a monster only for you. Something like that.
BL is just another genre of stories but it gets bad rep both by straight people and homosexual people for girls fetishizing it, which isn't always the case. It's just another genre with the same kind of popular tropes that hetero stories have both in the west and east.
I actually said that is partially, but not main reason. And the way I explained it might be not correct or even offensive but I don't mean to offend anyone. I am agree with your opinion. And just giving my opinion what I found from doing some researches on internet.
I personally like the art that manhua has a bit different from manhwa and mangas, and of course I am attracted to non realistic tropes such as historical figures and non realistic plots that entertain us making it easier to imagine and just enjoy the show. Anyway, all logical opinions have a place to be.
I'm not offended hahaha there's no reason to be.... it was an interesting take for sure. I just think it's a global cultural thing, not limited to only asian culture (and the stereotypes of it being because of conservatism) it could be a factor, but at the end of the day, they're just popular tropes in stories so usually are used to expecting such things and don't think too deeply about why they like or hate it, for that matter. It's been in the recent trends for people to start hating such tropes for being what they are, by somehow blaming them (story and author) for normalizing such toxic behaviour irl society. Which I don't agree with, since it's fantasy for a reason, it's not fair to the author, it's the readers' fault for not being able to distinguish fantasy from reality, and of course BL gets its bad rep for such things also due to internalized homophobia (even by its readers who read it for the smut alone, and get appalled when it isn't all fluffy relationships and consensual sex) so idk.
The main point was that this isn't just a popular trope in Chinese stories or korean stories or japanese stories, but it also occurs in the west and that too on a much larger scale and on mainstream popular culture as well - twilight and 50 shades being a prime example.
Yeah, I mean I probably took it too deep and did self research to find out "why" people are attracted to such troupes so yeah, I found the partial explanation from psychological aspects. For sure there are other aspects to learn and explore as well. And regarding it being popular not only for asian but within all cultures, I cannot agree more than you already stated above. It is just my curiosity, regarding asian artists (mangakas/manhwa/manhua creators) having more courage or bravery for using such tropes, while I kinda think western artists do not always dare to use such tropes- like rape/or overly obsessive love s.o. and audience usually criticizes such tropes, for various reasons. While mostly asian comic readers can take it and swallow without much thoughts. Just an example, if some manhwa/ suddenly uses rape trope, some( I saw more) readers(english) tend to comment that they gonna drop it cause " it went downhill " while if to look at the korean commenters, it is very rare to meet anyone commenting that they hate the plot and gonna drop it, the same with novels as well. Still I found there is some preference difference between different cultures , for what I think psychologist are right regarding conservative families and overused "norms" from some point.
Ah, that is kinda true.. I'm asian as well, half-korean, and from a conservative background as well so I agreed with it. But I just want to say that it's not that we're not surprised or appalled, but rather I think we just take the story for what it is - whereas western people generally have this notion that somehow depicting such controversial tropes or mentally abusive relationships is somehow condoning it irl? There is just a cultural chasm (?) Between the readers in general, but it doesn't necessarily make one more "tolerable" to the rape and harassment, but rather it seems one side takes the story as merely a story for entertainment, and the other for life lessons. I never really understood that ofc.
I totally agree with the western population criticising such behaviour even in fiction (though it does become big franchises despite that) but in the east, it remains underground even if it gets popular. If it was mainstreamed like in the west, I'm sure it'll get even a bigger backlash than the west.
It's just a cultural difference I guess. In the east, even incest is a common theme in literature/bl universe, but then again, no readers would actually condone it irl ever as far as I know. There is a clash between "it's just a story, we know what is ok and isn't irl" from non-western people, and "No it's not just fiction, no you don't know, this is normalizing it" from generally western people. Idk. I could go on and on but that's it for now haha.
Exactly, good points. Anyway, thanks for sharing your PoV. It is interesting to learn how other people think about bl genre in general.
Have you guyz ever wonder why Chinese audience/readers like such plots? Rape involved, characters with obsessive/possessive behaviour and those who are described immensely powerful/rich/or strong? And appearance as well.