Hm

Bro there are so much better ones XD this one is so bad. Like, we don’t even see when he started to fall for mc XD rn he just seems like he’s pissy because he wasn’t the one to dump mc and now victimizing himself lol.

There are actually ones where the scumbag feels so sad but then reflects on what he’s done and tries his best to do nice thing for mc and make it up to them. They like spend the rest of the relationship being like a loyal puppy who doesn’t ever want to hurt mc again. Like, those types are why I read plots like these.

But, this story took out all the development of their actual relationship, only focusing on them having sex, without any hint of actual romantic progression. This was NOT the story I signed up for, but I feel like I have to finish it now that I’ve come this far lol

Yeah, I know. Still. Nothing has hit the mark yet.（/TДT)/ Honestly, I find it disgusting that these plots can't get a little more creative with the trigger for why the scumbag changes. I wonder if there's one out there where it doesn't culminate in a "the lover finally figures out their scum and leaves and the scumbag finally realizes they were in love all along and can't do without them" before they start to change. People can change for other reasons too. I just wish we could see a slightly more proactive scum, I guess, whose ah-ha moment happens in time to actually salvage the relationship rather than destroy it completely and then they try to repair the broken remnants. They're all basically copies of each other, literary devices wise. Wanna see some innovation...

Lol I get that. There are some stories where the ml realized they’re in love midway through, but those usually devolve into a typical “omg I forgot that this all started off as a bet until my friends just revealed it to you! Oh no! But I fell in love with you!” Types of stories. So even if he realizes mid way through, you still have a thing where they end up having to pick up the pieces of their relationship, after the reveal. I think these types of stories where the reveal happens(like it was a bet or something) just really only has this plot point possible for it. The only other way would be for the mc to never find out, and nobody wants that type of story.

For the other stories where the ml is just scum(without the whole bet aspect), I think the only narrative way to make their sudden change make sense is from something big happening(like mc cutting off contact and breaking up with them type of thing). Like, a lot of times, those types of setting happen because ml thinks that mc would never leave them, so they get a reality shock after the fact.

Maybe a story where the ml is scum, and either him or mc gets in a life threatening accident or something similar, that makes him realize how much he treasures mc and tries to reform his old ways?

Though, I don’t think those types of stories will be as satisfying, as all it does is make the mc less proactive. Like, the whole mc leaving the scum is a lot of the reason why people read stories like these. They want to see the mc stand up for themselves and for the ml to suffer, before changing and being at the mc’s beck and call. Like, a power reversal type of thing.

That’s just my opinion tho lol. I mostly read these for that power reversal lol XD

I totally get it. I read them for kind of the same reasons. But yeah, you hit the nail on the head. I'm getting sick of the plot device-y aspect to the change in dynamic. Some times it just feels like the creator ran out of other devices to use, so they use the scum-to-simp arc to fill space. Other stuff could go there.
I'd like to see a story where they admit out of their own volition that they did something out of ill-intent and their motivations changed midway.
It takes serious BALLS to come out and say "I started this for all the wrong reasons and I did a lot of wrong things in the process, but you are still the best thing to ever exist in my life and I don't want to lose you because of my mistakes. Please. Help me do better. Be better."
To me, it would be far more satisfying if a few of these plots saw them came together again with BOTH being actively trying to make it work, rather than one party trying to buy back forgiveness and love with simp-ing. I love simps, but these forcefully created ones. Shifting all the power to the other side, honestly feels like a cop-out. I'd rather they just break up altogether than put up with that again. It's like saying a scumbag can't become a decent person unless they become a total simp. And that's not quite right either. Because it's not like the other partner has no flaws either.
For example, this manga here. ML started it on a bet, and the MC used him to get over a one-sided love. Who is really more or less wrong here? Not to say betting on someone's feelings isn't an asshole move, but he was surprisingly upfront about it from the very beginning (he got the MC to agree to the relationship with a bet in the first place!). I guess I'm just a bit irked at how affronted the MC is over the "reveal". ML was pretty much the IDEAL boyfriend the entire time. He helped get MC over his crush, technically, ML's job here is done. The only hiccup here is that ML fell for MC in the process (somehow) and the bet got out. That doesn't mean the ML is all of a sudden awful. He certainly treated MC much better than the MC treated his ex.
Bleh. So many mixed feelings with this one. Right now, I don't buy the idea that the MC deserves to feel this upset about it, so I can't enjoy the ML's grovelling properly. My sadism is very selective. (￣∇￣")

Lol I guess I like it cause the stuff I usually read, the mc doesn’t do anything really bad and doesn’t deserve the treatment of the scum ML. However, I want them to be happy and having a simp that do anything for them sounds good enough lol XD I think I just love the scum turned puppy dynamic. This manhwa just does it so bad.

My main problem with this one is still just how ml doesn’t seem like he likes mc and it just feels like he’s victimizing himself rn

But true, I don’t feel as sympathetic towards the mc as I would with other stories so i honestly don’t care about the outcome and them just never seeing each other again is honestly a pretty good ending lol XD the mc doesn’t give me the feeling of ‘I want to protect them and for them to be happy forever’ type of vibe lol

Oof. I have a whole separate rant for those pushover MCs (involves enabling, recognizing one's limits, and you know, standing up for yourself), but that's a whole different book.

This one, I mean. Hm. I do like that it's somewhat realistic in the aspect that one character is never perfect and always wronged and the other always flawed and doing them wrong. But that pseudo-realism itself is flawed because of the perspective we're given. We have next to no insight into the ML other than what the creator has given us to make us suspicious of him in the first place. If we don't get a flashback montage on how his feelings shifted in the next arc, this will never rate higher than average on my personal review. It wouldn't be cringe-level awful, but it wouldn't be a piece of art either.

Overall, it's a trope I end up reading because I want to see it done right as I do like the scum-to-simp concept in theory. I do wish we could see the potential from the beginning tho. That's where a lot of those with a pushover MCs fail at. I swear, it's like the ML in those got switched with someone else somewhere in the middle. The transformation is often without basis and far too dramatic.

You know what? I'm a sucker. I'll always have something to complain about. Roflmao.

LOLOL, I like it when they actually kinda go through his change from flashbacks or something. Like a lot of the time, it comes from the guilt that makes them want to change and only treat the mc like they’re a treasure. So I also like it when they’re like way too cautious at first, like they’re afraid of even touching them, in fear that my will be hurt again and leave them. And then that slowly turns into something more healthy where the ml becomes a better person and also won’t treat the mc like a child.

Guess it’s all about the little details lol. Like a scene where the ml is about to do something that reminds him of how he was when he was true scum(about to yell at mc or the like), and that causes him to fall back, and scared of reverting to his old self that hurt the mc. Like, that would be pretty good angst fodder and character progression imo lol XD like he’s not fully changed and that’s what scares him the most.

And just the idea of the guy who didn’t hesitate to hurt the mc, turning into someone who doesn’t want to hurt the mc who might leave them to someone who just doesn’t want the mc to be sad or hurt is like a good shift. Like it goes from scum, to overly dependent simp that has abandonment issues, to just a good boyfriend who doesn’t want their loved one to be hurt. Like the shift from abandonment issues to just a healthy mindset and relationship is honestly nice to see.

Like how it changes from “I don’t want to hurt you in case you leave me” to “I don’t want anything to hurt you and destroy your smile.” It shows that he’s letting go of his last bit of selfishness, where the mc isn’t supposed to make him happy, but because he wants the mc to be happy. I think that’s cute haha

Yeah also this manhwa apparently only has a few chapters left, and honestly they needed a lot more if they’re gonna turn this clusterfuck around. Like, we’re gonna need to see ml’s flashback pov soon or he’s just an irredeemably trash that doesn’t deserve to act like the victim.

You nailed pretty much every point on the head. To be frank, when anyone (MC, the pushover version, or ML, in the over-simp stage) believes their happiness hinges on another, they are doomed to be unhappy.

I guess it's about time I start searching for the next transforming trashcan...

The only consistently good thing about this trope: it's overdone, so there are always more out there and even more in progress. ╮(￣▽￣)╭

Yep XD whether is gay or straight, there’s many out there lol. At some point, a good one is bound to pop out… right?

Crossing fingers and knocking on wood ╥﹏╥