Their is nothing realistic about manga so if you're expecting something realistic to occur than you should try reading books based on a true story. Of course this was going to end up with "Rapist=Love" this is a manga (Yaoi) and yaoi manga's sometimes love to potray rape as a step towards a beautiful and happy ending. I tend to separate fantasy and reality, so i don't mind if rape leads to a happy ending. <3
That isn't even the point of what I am trying to get. I'm tired of this trope. I'm tired of manga's selling me, rape=love. Which is bullshit for many reasons. I never said I was looking for a realistic romance because this is already unconventional. I'm talking about what is okay and what is not, and how I'm tired of seeing this in a majority of yaoi I read. All this shit doesn't just stay here. We get people adding comments like, "Hell yah, rape." or "so sexy" In reference to the character being violated and it's upsetting. Tbh, I am not addressing just this manga. It just happens that at this point my heart dropped when it occurred in this manga because I felt it was so unnecessary. Me criticizing this manga has nothing to do with looking for a "realistic" romance.
And this is my friends response to your bullshit. "What a fucking nonsense response. There's a difference between fantasy and fucking toxic lies. Yaoi manga is meant to deliver a fantasy of romance between two men to people who want to see that. In being so accepting of "rape being a building block of love," are they saying they approve of it in real life? Because there has to be some aspect of them as a person that likes or approves of rape for them to be so accepting of it-- going so far as saying that they like it when it leads to a beautiful relationship in the end.
"And saying "go read something based on real life if you don't want rape," bitch where do you think rape originates? I shouldn't have to excuse it in my romance manga because "it's not realistic." Your're right. The giant hands and Dorito chins aren't realistic either, and yaoi fans have started asking for less of that too. So why not ask for less of the far worse elements that have been standard in yaoi for so long, like goddamn rape???" (My friend, 2017)
This is just my opinion so I'd prefer to not be crucified for it. I can see why a lot of yaoi fangirls are disgusted by the rape trope. Personally for me, it's not a huge problem. I would prefer my yaoi to not have rape but if it happens, so be it. Stories already tend to have a reputation for their lack of realism and rape follows suit with that (as in rape being the catalyst to the beginning of love). I've made the distinction before but fantasy is a lot different to real life, so your friend saying that if someone is okay with rape in fiction that equates to them being okay with it in real life which is not true, I'm sure for some that might be the case but it's definitely not for most people. A lot of women have rape fantasies yet they would never want it to happen to them in real life. Just one of the mysteries of the human mind. Point being, yeah, rape in real life is a fucking tragedy and the criminal should be castrated for doing such an awful thing, but in yaoi, it's just a matter of preference. I honestly don't mind you commenting your disdain for rape in yaoi so I'm not here to argue, but to just grant you a new perspective? People like rape in their stories because of the fantasy aspect of it, which is why I won't say that it needs to be excommunicated from this genre or any genre for the matter since I'm sure people feel the same way towards yaoi or bl undertones. Anyways "rant" over, I'll stop shaking my cane in the air.
But, it's still not okay. It's not okay just because some women or men fantasize it. I am not here to crucify anyone. And although I get it this stuff is enough to desensitize people's ideas of rape because we are willing to excuse it with such reasons. Like, at this point I'm thinking I should stop reading any manga that involves rape. And I realize this will actually affect my reading list a lot. Because it's so prominent. I opened two just after and I realize they also had this theme. And it's not okay. AT ALL.
In response to this my friend said. "Again, they try saying that there's a difference between fantasy and real life. The crux is that yaoi isn't a fantasy. It's an exaggeration, it's a genre. It's fiction but that doesn't make it fantasy, and why on earth is it ok to expect or excuse something which they admit is tragic and horrific like rape "just because it's not real?"
Especially when that tragic and horrific event is the basis of a romance. By indulging in and excusing or outright enjoying rape turning into romance, you are essentially saying that you approve of abusive relationships in your escapism. You indulge in reading yaoi and don't mind rape? And you don't see the problem with it?
If I presented them with someone who read explicit lolicon, someone who read it with the excuse that "it's not real so it's ok," would they agree? Or would they have the humanized reaction of finding it reprehensible?"
Just because I'm exposed to it in the form of a fictional piece does not mean I will ever be desensitized to it in real life, if anyone has some form of sympathy they will feel the same. Rape in yaoi is portrayed in a way such that the main character rarely is affected by it on a psychological level, which eventually leads into a romantic relationship (Hidoku shinaide and Koisuru Boukun to name a few) which it's a lot easier to detach from reality and just go "oh, rape just being used as fantasy." but then there are the more severe cases where rape isn't being used for fantasy and shows the reality of rape (itou san and gintama dj - get me out) and the trauma that comes with it, which you can immediately recognize that rape being used in those scenarios are used for the purpose of shock and sympathy. Killing in western media is extremely popular, the blood, guts, and the overwhelming fame that these "cool" charaters are dubbed. Many people understand that it is just a fantasy, and just because someone's favorite genre is action with all the killing that comes with it, doesn't mean that they will become desensitized by seeing a dead disfigured body in real life. Media sensationalizes killing in movies which is a horrible, awful thing to do and has real consequences but many people are able to distinguish fiction from reality.
This is my last reply to you, mainly because I'm mentally exhausted from this concept being so popular.
My reply is: It's not okay. No excuse. The end.
My friend:
"No one said it desensitizes you to actual rape(I corrected her, that I said this), though it fucking does. What we're saying is that by choosing to continue reading it, you are excusing it. And what are you trying to defend?? You're using examples of when it wasn't given a realistic reaction or trauma, and saying it's good? That's just further proof that it's a cheap and filthy excuse for a plot device that doesn't respect the horrific reality of rape.
As for trying (and failing) to use violence in western media as a parallel, you fucking did it wrong. Even when violence is glorified, it's made clear that it isn't leading to the violent person being better because of it. Or if they are, it's done by showing them being violent towards an enemy or evil. And when it's just violence for the sake of violence, it's accepted that it's still not ok by the audience.
There is a difference between a character being glorified for being a violent warrior or vigilante in an action series where those things are likely to be the norm, and a romance series where rape is treated as much as a norm.
(This is more of an attack so I would suggest you don't read this and skip this part)
Seriously, who the fuck genuinely tries this hard to justify being ok with rape in romance manga, and does it with much of a douche bag tone?? The way they talk makes them sound like they're tipping a fedora at me
----
I mean for fuck sake, even in most violent shows/ movies/ whatever, rape is still a huge unforgivable no-no, and yet they're trying to justify and defend it in something as stupid as yaoi manga and comparing it to violent fiction.
yeah the rape=love trope is really common nowadays and since it is a piece of fiction I don't really feel any strong disgust for it but its definitely not likable. I will still probably read the manga and I hope they will not end up together but that seems really bleak. you should try reading caste heaven though. it portrays rape as it should be portrayed; as a twisted and disgusting thing
Ask your friend to make an account if she has so much shit to say but that's probably be to much to ask by someone who is to scared to post her thoughts on the website. Better yet write as anon. Read something real life literary means getting the ending you expect by someone who was raped. Not the cliche your tired of seeing. Everyone knows where rape originates. But of course when your mad people wont realize the stupid stuff they say, and think that everyone is a child that needs to be educated lol Actually, you cant ask the authors so i guess your best bet is read something else. Those cute little fluff bunnies you want. Rape was bound to happen in this manga, if you were to dumb to notice it than that is your fault. Take on the cues this manga gave, you could tell it was going to be rape=love. Toxic Lies? Yeah okay, i am pretty sure this manga isn't telling people "Dude if you rape the person you care about their going to love you" Everyone knows that rape isn't love even your grandmother knows that, the author knows. It's like the most common thing, that why i said separate yourself from this manga Fantasy does not equal Reality. Read it like it was supposed to be read a FANTASY!!!! manga. Jesus Christ, do you need a clause that says "This is not based in real life events, everything you see is a work fiction ETC" the one you see when you play video games. Cause if you do than i would be willing to print it out and stick it on your fucking computer before you read a manga. Oh and yaoi manga was literary build on the premises of SEX, just SEX. It was never created to read about a beautiful relationship between to males. That my dear sweety, it's called Shounen-Ai, which is more emphasis on the emotional aspect between two characters who are male. =
Oh yeah? Well tell your friend this:
cmon man I just wanted to have a nice civil debate
Civility is reserved for people who don't hide behind "but it's not real." Anyone else gets their ass handed to them.
Please refer to comments above. I think you need to read them a few more time to understand because you missed the point completely. I don't condone rape, and no longer want it in what I read. Horrifying how normalized it is. Disgusting how hard people try to defend it and excuse rape. I have no interest in putting more thought into your comments than necessary because it's plain and simple making excuses for rape. Blaming the reader for not liking it, based on your reaction I was clearly looking for your response. I might as well have said, from the start this is based on my real emotions about a serious topic, if you don't like what I have to say. How about I print a disclaimer for you that says, "If you don't like what I have to say, don't read it. Because it doesn't affect your idea of fantasy."
I love you for this. You shared your opinion without insult to the other party.
You can't honestly be dumb enough to apply a moral OR realistic mindset to ANY yaoi manga because I think even you know you'd be disappointed 90% of the time. Not your thing? Don't read. Which clearly you won't anymore.
so, just because YOU dont like it and think its wrong, everyone else should? all the mangakas who both give many people what they want and earn their living through this should stop just because YOU think it should? interesting. almost sounds like you believe your opinion matters more than the many people who make and enjoy this stuff. its not hurting anyone, so there is no reason anyone's opinion should affect what the mangakas are doing, unless of course you dont believe that poeple should be allowed to live their own lives harmlessly.
^^^^^
What the hell are you talking about?? I only ever talked about what I felt about this. This was a topic I made, and people were unhappy I didn't agree. I said I didn't like it and people decided to give me long ass explanations about how I need to stop.
in some of your replies you were saying that its not okay, and your friend was also saying something about how yaoi is meant to show romance and stuff. those imply that you think manga should be a certain way / consist of certain things.
No? In the mix I added what I wanted, not that it should exclusively be THAT way. In the majority I am just disappointed. It makes me sad. And though I know certain manga wants to give you that kicker. But it's... whatever.
After the assault, and trauma and manipulation. They will still be in love, won't they? Little nemo will still fall for the guy who raped him, 'cause clearly that is how love begins. With their assailant.