Well he love his brother the most, alright. So much love that he drove him to death, not that he know that yet, the bastard. It's sad that his brother is not coming back and it's sadder that he's the cause of it ╮(￣▽￣)╭
Oh, you lovable soul.
Truely admiring your conclusion in the face of all this crazy logic!
but he didn't change because he hted himself?? He said it himself, he changed because it made his brother feel guilty and he loved it. I mean yeahh he was compared to his brother A LOT and he had an incredible inferiority complex, but that doesn't weigh up for all the horrible, horrible things he did to his brother (getting him raped, bullied and making him suicidal for example)
I say it again, it seem people don't get it - WHO SAID HIS BRO DEATH WAS CAUSE OF HIM?!!! show me proof!
he said himself, that he hate himself and that he wanted to be "new me", even before he start to abuse his brother.
his brother only notice the change after he start to hung out with the punks and then Fox start to yell at him and abuse him.
read this chapter again, and come back to me.
yeas he did horrible things, but...I SAY IT AGAIN - who said he was the one who arrange the rape?? the guy that arrange it, is actually seem like the crazy guy that called fox. so...again, you don't know if it was really him or not. in reality you don't really know it was him.
I still waiting to find out what really happen there!! cause your guess is has good has mind.
Yes! Thanks for being one of the few that has a different view. I totally agree with you.
Of course, Jiwook did bad stuff and said bad stuff! But we have to remember that he is someone who was placed in a bad environment. He didn't NOT have a choice in what he did, of course he made all the choices himself. But as a kid who loved his brother so much but also as someone who wanted to have an identity of his own, he didn't know what to do. I'm not letting the bad stuff he did pass (and I'm not saying you are either) but I think we should not let his past hurt float away, ignored by the bad he's done.
The bro didn't kill him, he drove him to his death. Why? Johoon implied it himself, he's involved with the rape. If he isn't then he should not act so relentless like he did something wrong. He's guilty but is that going to bring back Siwoon to life? No. He's not innocent. He may have love his brother very much but does that change something? No it doesn't because Siwoon died. Okay maybe he's not the cause of Siwoon's death but place yourself under Siwoon's shoes. If you know that your sibling is involved with your rape, what would you feel? it will KILL you inside. That's what we call betrayal. I don't hate Jiwook, I just don't like him.
So, you are ignoring the fact that Jiwook was also hurt? By your logic, we can also say that Siwon led Jiwook to being a delinquent. Every situation has different factors that causes it to occur. Not saying that Jiwook is innocent of all the bad things that happened to Siwon. Of course, he may have been a big factor in those things. But just because Siwon is the ultimate victim in this story, Jiwook CAN'T be a victim as well?
I'm trying to understand your comment. Please don't think I'm trying to attack you ┗( T﹏T )┛. I just don't know how to phrase my words to make it sound less aggressive... ╥﹏╥
I really want to understand your hate for Jiwook and why you think he can't be a victim. I personally think that Jiwook did NOT drive his brother to his death although he was a major factor. Siwon chose to do what he did and believed that he had no choice (I don't blame him). I don't want to sound like I'm victim-blaming Siwon. It was a devastating thing that happened but we can't do anything about his choice.
I"m not saying he's good either, but putting all the blame on him with no proof that it was really him is stupid.
and he's already pay the price, he lost his only twin. I think it enough. and I think the parents should be punish has well for what they done with them!
one, you don't know who really droove him to his death yet. two, Fox already pay the price. three, I"m not saying he's didn't do anything wrong. just why he did what he did and what make him do what he done.
I"m not forcing you to like him, just that you won't blame him just for fun with no reason!
sorry I sound kind of angry -0- it's not you. I"m just tired of people that just decide to make complex characters into a "bad", "good" category's and see it has black or white. it's annoying!! cause in life there is no such thing has only "good" people.
that what I LOVE IN THIS COMIC!!! ヾ(☆▽☆)ヾ(☆▽☆)ヾ(☆▽☆)ヾ(☆▽☆)
Tell me what the bad environment was:
Did his parents rape him?
Did they beat him?
Did they deny him food?
Did they deny him education, clean clothes, a bed?
Did they call him names?
If you see the scene where they are sitting around the living room, they talk to both boys normally. They have no idea the shit going down with these two.
Even in the flashback where Jiwook notices his brother is getting the praise, no one called him ugly or stupid or useless. They praised the brother who was excelling more (which happens in all households where htere is one kid much smarter or more athletic or handsomer/prettier). Jiwook decided to take it as "my brother stole my place and my things." But no: He needed to make his own place and excel at his own things (if not academics, something else).
Now, let's look at Taemin:
His father abuses.
His mother abandons.
His father abandons.
He lives in a shithole.
He has to leave school to work and support himself.
Does he go out and blame everybody and their cousin and decide to cause pain? No, he keeps on keeping on with integrity. He struggles for EVERY DAMN thing he has.
In contrast, Jiwook whines, decides to play the victim, is not grateful for all the blessings and advantages he has, doesn't look to make his own better path, no indication he tried to outdo his brother studying. No, he decides it means he's shit. Instead of thinking of how to shine, he decides he's prefers making his brother miserable. How to cause pain. He looks down on the kids at the karaoke place (even though he hates that he thinks people look down on him, he does the SAME FUCKING THING to others). Then he still hangs around with a guy that he sees abusing his friends (so abuse is okay, but not people praising his brother, yeah, ok) That's evil. EVIL. Not crazy: evil.
Even when he had a chance to change, repent, show his brother kindness because HE COMMITTED SUICIDE, for fuck's sake--no, he encourages him to kill himself again.
If there is anything good in Jiwook, someone is gonna have to show me the chapter and verse, cause it isn't there. (Not yet)
I love him cause it was so much fun to analyze him, he's not totally insane person. he still have logic [the insane one is the one who call him XD]
funny enough what we see in the first chapter is the result of years of self hate and what it can do and abuse environment with no physical abuse. that was actually very good build character!
I'm blaming him for fun? FUN? So being involved in a rape is FUN? I'm just saying that I don't hate him just in case you're misinterpreting it. For no reason? You just admitted that he did something wrong. Whatever, we'll see in the next chapters anyways. Look at when Jiwook thought Siwoon survived, did he breakdown and said sorry? No he still taunted him. He actually said it was bad that he survived. It's not his fault that he was in that environment, I agree. Actually, I blame their parents for not knowing anything. Maybe they are just sipping a cup of coffee while they're not aware that there's something going on with their sons ╮(￣▽￣)╭ You need to look at the present because it is happening currently. His backstory is painful, being in that environment is fucking hard (i have a taste of it too so i know) and even his parents did not do anything. Your thinking is great but not accurate or overall right. At that time, he forgot to look at his brother because jealousy clouded his mind so he thought that JooHon's the only one he can lean on (Joohon's a manipulative mofo, I ship them together tho). His desire to have an identity overpowered his love for his brother. I actually like the pathetic him in the past than the asshole in the present. If we ever see Siwon's perspective too, I don't think you'll like him anymore. The author's very great to twist our opinions like that. He's actually fucking adorable in the latest chapter, sometimes I just want to think that he's not going to be involve in his brother's rape. Thanks for your theory now that I realized that I like his past self but not the present.
Tell me what the bad environment was:
Did his parents rape him? – "
so you saying what his parents did is a good thing? Rape is not the only way to abuse people. Words can hurt and abuse too! Google it.
Did they beat him?
Again, WORDS CAN HURT AND ABUSE TOO! google it.
Did they deny him food?
They deny him Unconditional love, so yeas it kind of "food" to the soul XD they didn't give him that food. Yap, they Neglected him.
Did they deny him education, clean clothes, a bed?
Again, this is not Replaces Unconditional love as the person he is. That he never got anywhere, right?.
Did they call him names?
THEY NEVER EVER PRAIZE HIM IN HIS ANTIRE LIFE WHILE HIS BROTHER THEY DID ALL HIS LIFE! IS THAT NORMAL TO YOU?!! if it does, then it fuck up!
"If you see the scene where they are sitting around the living room, they talk to both boys normally. They have no idea the shit going down with these two."
Cause they don't care enough to ask.
"Even in the flashback where Jiwook notices his brother is getting the praise, no one called him ugly or stupid or useless. They praised the brother who was excelling more (which happens in all households where htere is one kid much smarter or more athletic or handsomer/prettier)."
Maybe, but not only one brother! And not the parents! What normal in family's is that one brother have his friends while the other have other friends. Here FOX NEVER HAD ANY!!! Not even once!! That fuck up if it's true! Again, I seen it in real life so...yeas it fuck up to prefer one brother over the other! It is fuck up! If you think it normal to prefer one brother over the other, go to therapy.
"Jiwook decided to take it as "my brother stole my place and my things." But no: He needed to make his own place and excel at his own things (if not academics, something else)."
What else he should have done? What??? He try the academics [read the other chapter] it didn't work, he try to dye his hair – DIDN'T WORK! He try to change his clothes – nope didn't work. He even try to change his fucking personality - and it only back fire him!! so what do you want him to feel Joy from it? You tell me, if you live in the shadow of your brother, until your existence won’t matter to anyone, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO what would you have felt? Joy right? You be supper happy and love yourself right??? again, he isn't an angel. he did bad things, but he also got hurt not less from other characters in here.
"Now, let's look at Taemin......"
I love how people think they the same, while they not. They different people, live in different environment. The only thing that do similar in those two is that they both can't really learn to love themselves. And both show different ways to deal with it XD that what I love about this. weak people do exist in this world that can't deal with self hate.
"Does he go out and blame everybody and their cousin and decide to cause pain? No, he keeps on keeping on with integrity. He struggles for EVERY DAMN thing he has."
already answer it, they both deal with self hate in a different way! That show they not the same! Not everyone in the world deal with things the same way you do!
"In contrast, Jiwook whines, decides to play the victim, is not grateful for all the blessings and advantages he has, doesn't look to make his own better path, no indication he tried to outdo his brother studying. No, he decides it means he's shit. Instead of thinking of how to shine, he decides he's prefers making his brother miserable. How to cause pain. He looks down on the kids at the karaoke place (even though he hates that he thinks people look down on him, he does the SAME FUCKING THING to others). Then he still hangs around with a guy that he sees abusing his friends (so abuse is okay, but not people praising his brother, yeah, ok) That's evil. EVIL. Not crazy: evil."
Wow and we thought Fox was in self denial, actually fox at least honest with himself by adimiting very clear "I’m much worse". What also say a lot about him, it's not that he see himself has a victim. Only that he adopt what others think about him and ready to punish himself by doing the same to others, by making other suffer like him. even if he isn't really a bad guy like they treat him.
You should watch kodocha to see an example. When people say you demon for a long time, you will become one even if you not! Psychology is an amazing thing XD
"Even when he had a chance to change, repent, show his brother kindness because HE COMMITTED SUICIDE, for fuck's sake--no, he encourages him to kill himself again."
I think I said that before to people, why would you be kind to someone you not only hate but also super jealous of?! and the one guy that make you hate yourself? funny enough when we see him in the first chapter, we see the result of years of self hate and what it can do to human bean and abuse environment. that was actually very good build character! After he commit suicide, I guess Fox already got used to hurt himself until he was sure he enjoy it. It kind of sad XD
"If there is anything good in Jiwook, someone is gonna have to show me the chapter and verse, cause it isn't there. (Not yet)"
if you want to hate him, hate him. it's like they say "haters are going to hate no matter what." but if you want to understand what make him turn out the way he is, then yeas he's awesome! just the fact he didn't do really anything, he didn't hit him or abuse him even if everyone love him more show he isn't that bad like you all make him out to be. and he never told him how hurt he is to live this way! And in this chapter, when the brother didn't notice how much in pain he was, that actually hurt him. what show that he did care and that he's sensitive. He wanted someone to notice, but no one did!! I’m tired of people that blame characters with no reason! While there is much more fuck up characters in here. THEY BOTH Victims! That's all.
we don't know if he was involve in the rape, we do know fox was suppose to be raped. and we don't know what Fox actually did. so...
maybe fun is not the right word? XD convenient, yap more convenient to blame him in all. yap, convenient is the right word for it.
like I say, he's not an angel. he did learn well from the punks, but he had his reasons. I hate more the guy that acutally watch and enjoy the rape - the guy who called him. now I start to think he did it for FOX XD cause he want his ass. won't be surpise.
"did he breakdown and said sorry? No he still taunted him. He actually said it was bad that he survived."
I know you all expecting him to say sorry to the brother that he hate and super jealous off for years ever since he was young. but it dosn't make sense, just saying XD cause I seen it in the real world. jealousy between brothers/sister is a common thing, and they never say sorry. ever!!
"You need to look at the present because it is happening currently."
I tell you what I see in the present, I see a very jealous brother, that we already know from the start. a very miserable one that can't find peace of mind [ monologue before the mirror] and I see a very freak out and weak guy cause a crazy guy called him. that saying someonthing. oh and I believe in Tamin words about him from the very start "a barking dog don't bite" XD but that what I see. he never once hit him in the present, not once.
well at least you like him in some way, that something right?
Well his brother died. The least Siwoon can get is an apologize even tho it's Taemin in his place ╥﹏╥ wtf i can't wait him to see him suffer after finding out that Siwoon actually died. You'll only regret things at the end. The treatment he did to his brother is more than I can ever handle. It's true that he suffered in a bad environment but I'll be damn if he bullied his brother. He tormented and helped that fucking bastard to ruin him. I don't feel sorry for him. I will only feel pity for him if Siwoon actually survived. I just hoped TaeMin will teach him a lesson so he can see that it's not only him hurting, his brother suffered a lot under his jealousy. That doesn't change the fact that he's an asshole. I hope he realized and felt sorry for those years of hatred towards his brother. That his hatred along with others drove him to death. If he only talked about it with his brother and set aside his pride, everything will atleast be a less painful.
Jiwook is worse than Joohoon when it comes to the SiWon situation. Because Jiwook is FAMILY and his first regard, even if he's burning with jealousy, is to protect the life of a family member. That he wanted his brother dead judging by his own words and actions, makes him WORSE than Joohoon, since Joohoon is nothing to SiWon (not a relative, not a friend, not anything). But Jiwook had many years of loving and being love by his brother, and the simple fact that once the suicide attempt happened, his heart should have been shocked out of his wicked jealousy. THAT should have snapped him into remorse. THat it only made him continue to bully his brother verbally and via actions, even when his brother had suffered a gang-rape and a fall and a coma, says a lot about Jiwook.
Maybe if he was ugly instead of beautiful he'd have a lot less sympathyt.
"Maybe if he was ugly instead of beautiful he'd have a lot less sympathy" THIS. SO.FUCKING.TRUE
Already paid the price. With what exactly?
so many people [I seen in the comment saction] that still jodge and hate Jiwook/fox without even trying to get his side or knowing if it was even him that make his bro kill himself.
it kind of sad, to say the truth. cause it can happen to anyone, really. if they be in that kind of environment. environment that regularly compares him to his brother FROM A VERY YOUNG AGE!! not just his parents, not just his parents friends, it also his class mates! every day, all the time! HOW HORRIBLE IS THAT?!! this is also some kind of Bullying. not Physically, but mentally it still a horrible abuse!
now in the new ch, we see how much Fox/ Jiwook seek the most horrible punks to hung around with and to change himself to someone "bad" cause he hate himself enough to do that. how sad is that for a person to hate himself that much even if his brother love him the most!
to hurt his body with smoking and to be someone he's not. HE IS NOT A BAD GUY! he just weak and didn't know how to handle that abuse he got all his life.
maybe he started to think he "deserve" to be abuse cause he's a "bad" guy like they say.
I repet it has much has people need too! he just don't know how to deal with the Jealousy and horrible self esteem he got from his "great" parents and environment. and when he yalled at his brother, when he hurt his brother we see that part him thought he's happy to see him suffer has much has he is. but the other part, that he don't understand, that part was in pain to hurt his brother he love. and the more he hurt his brother, the more he hurt himself.
cause Fox hate himself enough, when it hurt him to see his brother suffer, he thought he "deserve" it. in a funny way, it just another way to hurt himself. cause he hate himself enough to want to do it.
so if I conclude it, Fox LOVE his brother the most!! he love him much more then anyone else and he fall apart all alone without anyone notice it! and now he will never get him back. it soo sad!! he's my new favorite character now! OMG (☆▽☆)