people are saying that donna having a professional relationship is not wrong, and theyre r...

Where are people saying she's got a professional relationship with anyone? Her bdsm is pretty sloppy, but no where did it say she was in it as a professional. She's simply a sadist looking for no strings sex where she can get off being a sadist.

This is one of the few Korean web comics with bdsm themes being featured and at least showing some understand of "aftercare" instead of it looking as just abuse. And while Minho's scene wasn't handled as consenting, she even sent him an aftercare package. I appreciate that despite its not a very clear and fully correct portrayal of the lifestyle, I'm glad it's being used a lot better then most works (most are straight up porn though).

maybe you havent read enough comments, but EVERYWHERE people are saying that her she only wants a "professional" relationship, when its no where near that. and there people go again, justifying her raping someone idgaf if someone gave me aftercare, when they lead me to a hotel room just to tie me up, blindfold and beat me with a whip even when i said no. and it doesnt matter if there is "aftercare", at that point, it wasent even bdsm anymore, it was just her getting back at him, by raping him. quit justifying her actions.

I wasn't justifying her actions. And I've read a lot of comments, all over the web for a year, all I see are people saying she wants sex where she can be a sadist not a relationship. The only people "justifying" the assault are readers who wanted to see Minho get it back because they personally hate him.

But by all means, go off, get it out of your system then stop reading something you hate. Let people appreciate the good aspects of the manga instead of the same old tired argument.

I don't think the comment or was justifying her actions, just saying that the portrayal of bdsm in this manhwa is better than the portrayal in most manga where it's just abuse sugarcoated as bdsm. It is nice to see that Doona is considerate enough to provide after care to Gyerin, Haesol, and even slightly to Minho, the person she abused. I haven't looked around a whole lot but I've never read a bdsm manga that included that. Usually it's like the bruises magically get better over night or are non-existent.

Personally, I wouldn't consider what Doona did with Minho as bdsm because bdsm is supposed to be consensual but what she did was far from that. I'm not sure what is considered "professional bdsm" but I agree Doona isn't doing that. I don't agree that the submissive person should be the controlling the relationship. I think each person should have an equal say and mutual understanding of what all the relationship entails. That's usually how most relationships in general work, sexual, romantic or otherwise. Donna and Haesol wanted different things in their relationship. Doona wanted a purely sexual relationship, Haesol was not obligated to be exclusively in an relationship with her nor was she with him. Haesol wanted a romantic relationship with Doona, with him being her only partner. They wanted different things so the relationship didn't work. I do think she could have treated the matter more delicately but that would be out of common courtesy not an obligation she had. Doona is not perfect. Yes she is selfish at times and no she is not a professional dom. She's just a sadistic woman that wants good sex.

no no, I didn't re-read but I think in comics there's a passage like that. Or maybe it's from spoilers I've seen for later. I think Doona says it to Gyerin, something about a more professional partner.

What I get from the professional thing is her trying to say she wants partners that don't mix in love.

I don't know anymore if the having another sub thing was about Minho or not in OP's comment (cause we're all Anonymous), but Doona wasn't trying to have Minho as a sub. She used tools and humiliated him but really, that wasn't bdsm.

I thought that part was referring to Gyerin. Doona had already left the apartment when she did it with her but it's true the parting wasn't very clean.

Normally, you need to talk A LOT. Which Doona doesn't do at all. I though she had no experience as a dom actually It's true the submissive more or less calls the shots because you need to know what's okay or not for them, what they are ready to take, their boundaries, set a safeword with them... Those are things decided mostly depending on the sub.

you must not be educated on bdsm huh? its not weather or not you agree if the submissive shouldnt be controlling the relationship, its the fact that the submissive IS/SHOULD be in control of it. the sub is the one who calls the shots, if they dont want something the dom has to listen. if the sub wants more of the something, the dom listens, why? because the sub is trusting the dom to their body, but if the dom doesnt do/ doesnt want to do it, usually they break it off because they both have to want it. and no, they portrayal of bdsm in therre is absolutely horrible, when you enter a bdsm relationship, both of you guys are supposed to agree to it verbally and have a certain set of rules pointed out along with a safe word, they clearly glossed over that when donna was with haesol. and you saying "I don't think the comment or was justifying her actions", then what is this, " bdsm themes being featured and at least showing some understand of "aftercare" instead of it looking as just abuse. And while Minho's scene wasn't handled as consenting, she even sent him an aftercare package" so, EVEN THOUGH i rape you, if i send you an aftercare package,its okay. "Minho's scene wasn't handled as consenting, she even sent him an aftercare package" "she even sent him an aftercare package" i mean its like rape but like she sent him a aftercare package, like lol. " Yes she is selfish at times and no she is not a professional dom. She's just a sadistic woman that wants good sex." so shes just a sadistic sometimes selfish woman that wants good sex, okay. name me points in the story where she wasent selfish, ill wait. nothing she did in the story was to help anyone, and everything she did was because it pleased her in someway. and lets not forget that shes a sadistic woman that wants good sex, okay so her being sadistic and wanting good sex, is supposed to make it seem like all the things she did was not wrong? your whole comment is you glossing over the fact that what she did was not wrong, and alll i see are ' she did that to minho but..' but nothing. and your "It is nice to see that Doona is considerate enough to provide after care to Gyerin, Haesol, and even slightly to Minho" considerate? are you trying to be fucking funny? if your rapist comes knocking on your door with a bag of douches, a pregnancy test some moist towelettes, you would be over the moon because he was considerate enough to come back to you to make sure that you cleaned yourself up and that you weren't pregnant from what he did,huh? do your research and quit being a hypocrite.

You're putting words in my mouth that I did not say. At no point did I say "it is okay to rape someone as long at you treat them afterwards" wtf. Not once did I say that. Not once did the previous comment say that. If you feel that was implied by the comments, it wasn't. You seem to have missed the point on that.

I acknowledged Doona was not professional dom and said she was selfish. However I think it was considerate and, not selfish, to provide care afterwards. Minho aside, Doona did not abuse Gyerin or Heasol. I disagree with your opinion that Doona ever said she wanted professional bdsm or that she was obligated to uphold all the standards you mentioned. I think Doona wanted a sexual relationship.

The representation may not show safe and good bdsm, but it still shows something I rarely see. I wouldn't say the representation is terrible even though it's not an ideal bdsm relationship that is represented.

And something that really really bugs me for a while now, towards the end of your comment, you seem to compare this situation to when a girl get raped by a sexual offender she doesn't know and his excuse if basically she was asking for it.
I see a lot of people bringing up "what if", going about if Minho was a woman and Doona was a man to make a point...

I'll be honest, I think these arguments don't make sense. Because if Minho was a woman, he wouldn't be the incarnation of sexism 101 that he is. He wouldn't look down on others and wouldn't swear at his girlfriends. He wouldn't be jealous of Doona's talent either.
And if Doona was a man, she would never have gotten years of abuse from her boyfriend. she wouldn't want revenge because she'd have nothing to get revenge for.
Because of the social issues they represent (that their characters are obviously heavily linked to or we wouldn't have these mountains of comments on it...) their actions wouldn't make sense, wouldn't have any reason to be, if they were a different gender.

What Doona did is wrong, but I wish people would stop talking about it like you can compare Doona to male rapists and Minho to the female victims who usually get blame for the rape. Because you are missing the fact that it's obviously on purpose that it's reverse here. That is the point.
The result may not be tasteful. Was it necessary for that sort of story to exist only with a female version? That's up to the person reading. But if you're gonna comment (well you but anyone really), please take this into account, it's pretty important.

i apologize beforehand if i misinterpreted your comment, but to me your comment is a bit sexist. You are saying that women are incapable of looking down on others, swearing at their partners or being jealous of other people's talent? So because Minho has a penis between his legs he is able to do that, but if his genitals were different he would not do that?
And yes, women are also able to abuse their partners both physically and mentally. And there are men who are victims of abuse. By saying that if Doona was a man she wouldn't have been abused, you are denying and excluding all men who have ever suffered abuse from their partner because they are male.

Your comment is very sexist and you need to look up gender roles. Not all women are gentle and passive and not all men are violent and dominant, this is only what society has associated with your gender and what your parents thought you.

They're right. It's not that women are incapable of abusing men or being violent, but in this specific situation, if Minho didn't have a penis, and Doona didn't have a vagina, he wouldn't act this way. Their plotline is all about their gender, so it's not sexist to look at how gender roles and misogyny affected their relationship.

This is Korea, where ideas like "women cannot write literature like men" are still taken seriously, where a woman who has sex freely is labelled a whore, and where a woman who's outspoken is labelled a bitch. Minho tore Doona down in the past, and harasses her in the present, because she makes him feel like a failure of a MAN. You can clearly see that he does not have the same overwhelming jealousy problem with other male writers.

Then on the other hand, Doona isn't a naturally gentle, passive person. She is a woman breaking into a male-dominated field who has been subconsciously taught all her life to doubt herself and listen to authoritative men. That was the reason she put up with Minho at all.

I see your point, and the person who wrote that maybe had the same thoughts as you but they phrased it wrong because it seemed like they were implying that if someone is a woman they can't look down or abuse someone, even though something like that is not purely dependent on one's sex. I don't know what this topic is about, my comment was more of a general opinion on gender roles, but again if the person had the same thoughts as you i apologized beforehand.

oh dear, sorry if my rambling made my comment confusing. I wish I had gotten my point across better. But yes, what I had in mind was more like Anon explained.
I should have said "years of abuse from Minho" rather than "boyfriend" to make it clear I'm talking about this situation precisely.

Though, I said if their gender were different. Not their sexes. If say, Doona had been a man but a trans one, he'd have faced completely different issues and I'm sure his relationship with Minho would have been a very different one then too. Making the comparison weird to me.

Basically, the gist of my point was... I get the intention behind doing these comparisons. But in this comics, gender has too much an influence and trying to comment on it by switching the gender of the characters like it wouldn't have a massive impact on the story is sorta like pretending you don't face completely different situation and hardships in life depending on your gender.

I hope this was clearer.

On another note (and not sure if we'll ever get to read it now) but I think the sadist guy has his eyes on Minho. If anything happens between him and Minho, I guess we'll get to see once and for all how the fans will react to Minho getting abused/raped by a man.
I have to admit I'm curious.