i do get where u come fromm as someone whos an avid reader of ao3, theres a lottttt of books where i read that consent isnt just verbal, esp if theyre a couple/in love. and i do agree this story is more of a freak zone and that anyone thats new to this or isnt comfy with this kind of plot can just not read them
Right!? Glad to met a fellow traveller
omg hii back to the discussion, i think most here are very young (or inexperienced) and just arent ready for some freakiness this is veeeeery mildly freaky if u asked me, ive read something worse and inhumane and it doesnt make me less of a human.
we read for fun and if we stumble into something new, might as well read that shit to yk? give urself the experience and that theres all different kinds of story to explore. if it aint ur cup of tea, drop it and read something more vanilla. if it is, read it and enjoy it.
these people need to be constantly reminded that the story is FICTION anything can happen if the author/artist want it to happen. and again, bcs it is fictional i see nothing wrong with it. ofc, if its happening irl, grape is totally wrong (theres a whole lot of other fetishes in this story but since people are only talking abt grape so im focusing the topic on grape)
To start with, what you said about "your body is your partners and your partners is yours" is wrong. Just bcs you're together doesn't mean the other person has any rights over your body. That's like they're saying "since we're together i expect you to provide me with sex whenever i want" and when it's worded like that it sounds a bit weird no?
So i for one, think that questioning it that hard is just something a lot of people that read bl ( and Not just those with fantasies) do 'to excuse themselves' by redefining when grape starts and ends. "I don't like books with grape but this.." is written in almost every commentsection beneath these chapters. Grape starts as soon as one person doesn't give their consent even if they're feeling good !later!.
I marked the later bcs all the time and that's what i'm trying to explain to you in these chapters the top doesn't get permission and THEN STILL starts doing shiet afterwards. Even if the person is 'feeling it' later it's still a traumatizing event to go through. IT IS STILL A SEXUALL ACT WITHOUT CONSENT WHICH MIGHT LEAVE THE PERSON WITH MENTAL PROBLEMS LATER.
You also wrote that "people are quick to judge as soon as the no consent box is marked" Yes they are. Whether you have those kinds of fantasies or not. IT IS STILL GRAPE.
Please don't try to search for another definition of grape than what you can read in the internet because that definition is as strikt as it is for a reason.
Going through an event like that in real life would be traumatising as f* since it gives you the mindset "no matter what i say during sex my partner will do whatever they want". And that mindset might haunt you for life. It might even change how your view things other than sex.
That's the best way i can explain it to you. I hope that even though you have those fantasies and therefore it might be different for you as a person you understand my point about the trauma that comes with it.
Those characters probably don't have the same fantasies as you and that is the important point you have to think about.
Since they don't wish to be treated like that nor verbally ask to be treated that way during intercourse it is still grape and a cause for traumata.
Oh yea love that the author really incorporated a lot to the mix lol, I agree this one compared to others is far more sweet especially because of the art style, so very bubblely, and tbh I think grape is a continued topic on here bc of that bubblelyness. Like people aren't used to thinking a bunny can bite ig.
I personally have a very fluid stands on grape in books and in irl. So it's fascinating how far people really care when the topic isn't even that apparent, like other bl s have it be the main topic and so people know to stay away.
For that I really like this bl, very much giving sexy bunny vibes to me. From the beginning I caught the smell of a sdv fan, farm where ya need to help others in ways they don't expect very much the way of sdv lol
Oh no yea completely get that, grape is bad cuz it is an unwanted act that sticks with people. PTSD, mental health is important yes. This is common knowledge, I hope.
I'm aware not everyone is a masochist or a sadist ( not to say those people can't get grapes. I hope people know that even people that have such likings can have things go wrong) but I'm trying to reach people that don't classify this bl as grape, not counting the clear AU on it. . . Lol.
But in a relationship outside of the norm yk like alt and weirdos (me include) have ideals of such " your body is your partner's and your partner's is yours " bc it's romantic, thats just my opinion, I'm not holding it on people, so this question really wasn't for you. .
Even so thx I appreciate a vanilla response
this topic is getting heated but i soooo get where u come from. and also i appreciate an opinion from someone more vanilla. for me, i think its okay bcs its fiction. again like i said before, anthing can happen if the author imagines so. but if it was happening irl, i wouldnt wish grape to happen to even my worst enemy, its traumatising.
but to conclude everything, i (and also the OP asking the question hopefully thinks the same thing) am okay with these kinds of grape settings in manhwas because it is purely fictional. and ofc, other freaky, weird and other uncomfortable fetishes. both of us read varieties of something weirder and out of the norm so for us, grape settings are very mild (and frankly better than other stuff that we read)
and ik manhwad have always center their stories around grape > forgiveness > love and its getting out of hand bcs irl rarely the victims fall for the grapists and i get that some people are getting tired reading the same thing. but we arent the author/creator/artist so we cant really ask them to stop writing stuffs like these. the most we can do is drop the story if we're uncomfy with it and just find another more safe, sane, consensual vanilla manhwas.
anyways im glad u decided to reply, gives me more of an insight of what normal people would feel reading stories like these so thank you but i hope you also realise that there are abnormal people (like me and maybe also the OP) who enjoys (i mean not really enjoy but we really dont mind) grape settings and feel like its the part of the plot. again, we're okay with it because its fiction
Clocked it fellow traveller ♡
Thank you for the explanation, after your reply i think i just took the OG comment wrong. To me it sounded like the OP was trying to 'defend?' their fantasies by redefining grape. I actually also read a lot of these stories and have read much worse than this one, so i guess i didn't link the comment to the book since so many came to mind.
Anyway, thank you for the kind replies even though i really got a bit carried away there.
I actually also think that it is part of the plot and do not mind these kind of stories. In my eyes at the time it just seemed like they were also projecting the question on real life and i guess i got scared for a second haha
Real question bc love this genre can't get enough wow♡
This most likely doesn't apply to the new hellwolf/mini-grape-by-children AU lol, too early to tell, but is it really considered grape if the person yes doesn't give consent but also doesn't resent or even mind that they got hurt? Like people are so quick to call grape as soon as the " no consent " box is marked. There are more than just verbal forms of consent. Like no consent doesn't always mean they don't want to.
This is seen so much in bl and sometimes I question if it's really such a bad thing that it is normalized. I get it ya can't read others minds but the flow takes ya togetherrrrr and it must be a common fantasy if it's such a common occurrence/topic no?
And most of the time ya tend to be more honest when under the influence so I really don't get it when people see grape more often than love. Especially when the people are officially in love or are a couple, like your body is your partner's and your partner's is yours no? So is it really considered grape at that point?
Ig if ya aren't into the topics bc of your own fantasies ya would not want to be in that situation and that would make it a tough read, but like calling it disgusting is just close minded.
Like this is a clear freak zone y'all that don't get the fetish shouldn't be judging cuzzzz ya don't feel it