it's so annoying to see people constantly complain about SA underneath manhwas like these....

People can complain and have a opinion , its brave that u guys always using the fiction card for everthing this remide the case of a man u say he u fuck raw and deep Monika ( a charcters u is 14) but was ok because was fiction, stop defending this, as a gay man o feel.disgust how womens see as in fiction, so we are a fetiche to be raped ?

if you have to defend it this hard you shouldn’t be defending it at all

What does this even mean?? What the OP wrote is barely half a page long. Future generations are doomed

“future generations are doomed” meanwhile the og commenter is defending fetishized sa

They said "defend it this hard" not "defend it this long" - the degree of firmness of someone's stance on something has nothing to do with the length at which they express it. Illiteracy transcends generations I fear.

If you perceive someone making a thorough explanation of their stances as “defending it hard” then you shouldn’t engage with it to begin with. Aren’t discussions about each side sharing their views? When someone makes a point you disagree with, you shouldn’t automatically dismiss their entire argument just because they “shouldn’t defend it this hard”

You do realise… the point they’re ‘taking a stance for’ is sexual assault, in fact - incessant rape, right? Nothing is just ‘fiction’ and nothing is just ‘simple,’ and these events (yes even in drawn form) can be incredibly dangerous, especially for young readers and people with similar past experiences. We HAVE to keep voicing our discontent for change to happen. This is a fringe and in fact harmful ‘stance’ to take and yes, it needs to be called out under every circumstance.

I get your point, nobody is denying that these things take place in real life. But thinking that fiction reflects one’s morals and to even treat fictional characters as equals to real life rapists just undermines the severity of these crimes. Fiction exists so these themes can be explored without involving real people. With this logic, does this mean that everyone who has laughed at a villain, or found a unlawful revenge arc satisfying, automatically endorses these actions irl? I don’t see fans of murderer characters being called “murder supporters”, because they are able to draw the line between fiction and reality

No, that’s not what I’m saying it all. In fact, that’s the opposite of what we’re advocating here so I don’t understand how you got to that conclusion? These things need to have a place in fiction, artists need to be able to write and explore trauma and crime. The problem (and I am a big fan of Steel Under Silk) is the fetishisation of it! I don’t understand why it is so hard to see the difference between creative depictions of exploring sexual trauma and using rape as smut. ‘I’m raping you but you’re aroused even though you hate it’ needs to stop in Yaoi circles. There are some great manhwas that deal with this topic without making light of it or using it to write excessive sex scenes that get people off.

and who tf is fetishizing YOU LMAOOO. No one's defending anything, just stating what's the obvious that fictional content cannot and should not be held to the same standard using real life morals, it just gets annoying seeing the same demographic of people have the same argument every year rather than simply not engaging with a certain work. The contents of this manhwa is targeted towards a certain audience with a certain niche. Does that make them bad people? No. You can disagree with someone's tastes ofc but blatantly attacking people for enjoying such a work, is getting redundant

common sense transcends people who conflate fiction with real life values, believing what you read to be mutually inclusive with your moral stances

EXACTLY...dark themes have always existed in media including hetero and gl, eroticised versions of such themes exist too, as in steel under silk. Even therapists agree that using fiction as a medium to explore such interests is healthy. It's just so annoying seeing the same argument every year. You cannot apply the same critique that you would apply to another story depicting rape as realistic because this is intentionally eroticised, the story knows it's eroticised, the writing knows it's eroticised, the target audience know it's eroticised. How can anyone with critical thinking skills even begin to compare this with real rape?

Does saying "even therapists agree" make you feel better about your reading choices which include rape and incest? Of course, if these fetishes did not exist, there would not be fiction about it. Fiction IS a mirror to real life, especially our zeitgeist, so what you consume has a direct impact on your life - this might be covert, irrelevant, unimportant or significant, but it is there. With your logic, nothing is off limits, I guess have a field day, paedophiles! Do you see where it is getting fucked up and why such topics do indeed require regulation despite the need to include them in fiction? It is not the theme, it is the manner in which it is portrayed. We will continue to condemn the fetishisation of it until it becomes even more fringe than it already is, which is the "common sense" thing to do. Idk why you're choosing to die on this hill but good luck with your reading habits.

It doesn't make me feel better cuz I don't need to feel better about it. it's not real and does not effect who I am as a person saying "we will continue to codemn it" like this is ur guy's online jihad is so funny to me. Yaoi has always been eroticised ever since the origins of it's creation, commenting and complaining under a piracy site vehemently shaking ur head over the contents of this manhwa will do nothing, gay men are not being harmed through yaoi because yaoi, that is specifically, man/ga/hwa/hua is not made to depict real queer experiences. Saying that therapists agree is just an example of professionals that understand the concept of fiction, how it differs from reality, and how it helps individuals based on their experiences. Hell, even hetero romance novels have rape and sa. That's not me saying I'm justifying pedophilia, ure making a false equivalence which mitigates the experiences of real life victims. We need to bring back the unspoken rule of Don't like, Don't read because it seems to me most people comment on manhwas like these despite knowing very clearly what its reputed for. Annoying as fuck I miss bato because every seemed to mind their own business there

Well yeah this is what you get for defending rape porn lol

I think a lot of you guys are coming from a really good place but Steel Under Silk IS rape smut, this is literally rape fetish pornography and adding realistic depictions of sexual trauma would probably turn most of the audience buying it away. A lot of readers of dub-con and non-con works are victims themselves and are not looking for realistic depictions of the issues they’re facing day to day, fantasy media is supposed to be an escape from those issues.
There are a lot of valid concerns around rape fetish content but there is genuinely no way to appease everyone.

Yeah I generally agree with you. But I think I need to make myself clear, I was not advocating for 'realistic depictions of sexual trauma' in Steel Under Silk because that would ruin the story - especially with the manhwaga promising a happy ending. That was just a general example of non-fetish rape content that I appreciate. I think most people's grievances with SUS lie in the fact that it had so much more potential than just be rape smut, which got really bad with Season 2 and by that time most people were already invested in the story - hence the visceral reaction to the esp brutal non-con content.
But your last sentence about sums it up: there is no way to appease everyone so people will complain and people will complain about people who complain and it's a vicious cycle of the internet ┑(￣Д ￣)┍