Not people disliking ur comment when ur right. Thats a minor and a full blown adult wtf
Well yeah they need to be that's the story also ppl are disliking coz you're not understanding the story, it's supposed to be messed up and thats the part of psychological tag that's given in this story you see
Look u dont get to tell me if i understand a story or not, this isnt smth done to show storybuilding through characters being psychologically scarred.
I personally love seeing topics like this be discussed and shown in media, harada is my fav mangaka ffs. even in another story the author is completely fine pairing a senior citizen with a high schooler and theres no psychological connotations to that its just presented as some cute story.
The character being 20 wouldnt have made a difference in their dynamic, he could still be immature and destructive and the 30 years would still be significantly older to the point of a teacher being concerned when catching them.
Theres a correct way of writing pedophilic situations and this isnt done right cuz none of the characters are affected or questioning the situation the only reason the older character even considered hiding around is cuz theyre both men not cuz hes grooming a minor.
If u cant read beyond what the author intends to show and make out overlapping themes in the authors works maybe its u who needs to work on their media understanding. Not me.
Some people think the psychological tag is enough of an excuse to show pedo stuff unapologetically and call u illiterate when u disagree that it could have been done differently.
You’re arguing against something I never even said. I never said "psychological" automatically excuses problematic content or that people can’t criticize it.
My point was that the age gap and him specifically being 17 are intentional to the story and DOES affect the dynamic. A high schooler is not viewed the same as a fully adult 20-year-old with more independence, so saying it would make "no difference" is something I disagree with. The vulnerability, dependency and social position are different.
The story also isn’t framed as some simple adult predator narrative. The younger character is the one pursuing the older one, which is part of the unhealthy obsessive/destructive dynamic the manga is built around. That doesn’t make it healthy, it just makes it more complicated than the way you’re reducing it to "unapologetic pedo stuff".
Also there’s no universal rulebook saying stories with difficult themes have to be written one specific way. Different authors approach disturbing themes differently, so a story not handling taboo dynamics the same way as Harada your fav doesn’t automatically mean there’s no intentional psychological or depth here.
When I said you weren’t understanding the story, I meant I disagreed with your reading of the narrative intent, not that you were illiterate.You’re reading the author’s recurring patterns as normalization, while I’m reading this story as intentionally built around an unhealthy and destructive dynamic.
And the "maybe it’s you who needs media understanding" line is especially funny coming right after "read beyond what the author intends to show", when you’re the one acting like your interpretation and preferred writing style are the objective standard for taboo fiction lol. You keep talking like you unlocked some higher level media analysis when that whole reaction feels overly defensive because I disagreed with your interpretation.
I never implied only my way of understanding was correct, but ur words implied my understanding was baseless nor did i imply harada is the standard and if ur gonna factor in situations like social and environmental ques how about also factoring in cultural and geographical differences? Not everyone at 18-20 is considered an adult in multiple asian countries so the author could use the youth card and still write a 19 year old high school senior instead of specifically going for a 17 year old. And do people just become mega mature right after hitting their 18th birthday? A 20 year old can also be a very young n immature person.
The difference is how this shows the 30 year old's character, if hes involving himself with a 17 year old your average person will just read him as a pedophile and everything written about him can be reduced to being a sick groomer. Now if the character was 19-20 then that wont even be smth to question about and people would actually focus on the psychology behind their dynamic. And an age gap of 10 years would still have a huge effect
And what i meant by look beyond what the writer shows u is go across multiple of their works and see the repeated patterns. U can excuse this as a psychological thing but how will u explain the character dynamic in "grey to blue" where the highschooler isnt even mentally ill/ stunted hes just foolishly pursuing a first love which is fine but the 60 something man is reciprocating which isnt fine. Thats the recurring pattern here, continously writing about kids involving themselves with adults. Author doesnt even show it as a destructive situation cuz its a "happy ending" with the characters still being together. The psychological tag is merely there for the mc having destructive feelings and violent intentions towards things.
No hard feelings in any of this ofc maybe our morals are different which is fine but its hella distasteful to imply just cuz the younger person is obsessed that it doesnt still make the older one a groomer for going along with it. I personally am completely against censorship ofc but that doesn't mean there shouldnt be a standard for how these things are handled cuz many will use this as an excuse to draw compromising scenes of kids n teens cuz well anything goes right?
Just cuz u can doesnt mean u should is all im saying. Theres plenty of ways to write a story without lightly showcasing something like this cuz the author in no way is showing how destructive a 30 year old involving themselves with a 17 year old would be like. The 30 year old is all cutesy and doesn't even appear to act his age and the 17 year old by character design doesnt even look like a 17 year old. The author knows what they are doing. Cuz irl the difference between them would be so drastic itll be disturbing to even look at. If u disagree with even this much then im sorry idk what else to say.
Do not bother with Batata. He is an avid defender and apologist of pedos and Shota onii
Aw hell nah thanks for the headsup man.
I never said your interpretation was baseless, I just disagreed with it. I think we’re also talking about two slightly different things at this point. I was discussing the story’s intended dynamic and framing, while you started focusing more on whether the author should even portray these relationships this way.
And my point was never "20 year olds are suddenly mature adults". I just meant that making the character specifically 17 changes the way the relationship is framed socially and narratively compared to someone who’s 20.
Even what you said about people focusing more on the psychology if he was older instead of instantly seeing the older guy as a groomer kinda shows my point that the age choice does affect how the story is perceived, which is why I don’t think the changing age create same effect.
As for the author’s other works, I get your point. I just don’t think recurring taboo themes automatically means the author is only trying to normalize them. Some writers repeatedly explore unhealthy dynamics because that’s just the type of fiction they’re drawn to and sometimes in a very controversial way which creates discussions like we are having.
And I never said the older character stops being responsible because the younger one pursued him first. I only brought that up because it changes the dynamic from a straightforward predator story into something more mutually obsessive and destructive.
I also don’t think fiction always needs to portray toxic dynamics in the most harsh or realistic way possible for the audience to understand they’re unhealthy. Stories romanticize messy relationships all the time without automatically endorsing them.
The only thing that threw me off was the discussion becoming about morals because disagreeing with your interpretation doesn’t automatically mean someone supports these things irl. And when you say "if you disagree with even this much idk what else to say", it does come across like you’re treating your interpretation as the only reasonable one after saying you weren’t doing that.
At the end of the day I think we just read the story differently, many of your points I agree with, made me see different perspective and those which I don't I already stated.
@Jieun
You dragging an entirely different manga into this comment section just because you got bitter over another argument already says enough. Different stories require different discussions, basic courtesy among readers is keeping them in their respective spaces instead of dogpiling people elsewhere.
And "pedo apologist" is really the best you could come up with? If you disagree with my points then address them directly instead of throwing labels around and talking about me to other people like a middle schooler.
You're welcome
Yeah i was only referring to the moral standards bit when i implied one should agree that this just isnt correct, im also reading this story still to see how the author further handles it but as a survivor myself these things dont just exist in a vacuum and do affect the general public perception, thats all really. It doesnt matter if u agree with my take on the story or not but the moral tidbit is what got to me, maybe ur just the kind who doesnt associate all this with irl morals thats okay im glad u could at least take some things from the convo
However, if you DO like those things and let those things slide, can you not see how this can very clearly cloud your judgement on whether this is even needed in this story? If you dont have such views then alright, im only going off what you and the other person has said but if you are already desensitised to how disgusting this stuff is, or enjoy it, you of course are going to see no issue with it or even enjoy it. As many unfortunately do here. As people who rightfully find that shit morally wrong, they can imagine other ways it can be psychological without it including underaged boys. It could have even been that he had just turned 18 and started going out and being destructive and the old man started preying on him due to such. That would still hold the same weight. Community wise we do /not/ need more psychological stories that just uses pedo shit as a crutch. If they truly had the ability to write something well, they wouldn't have to use such a trope and can still make it predatory regardless. FOR EXAMPLE: They could even hint to such happening in his background which is what makes them go out and be more susceptible to creepy older guys for example without making the current story actively that specific situation. Unfortunately because of the state of yaoi readers, hadas work is normalising reading ts whether thats what they intend or not. Hada constantly turning to such themes to me personally is disturbing and worrying and the defence of this creator, or people who actively enjoy it in that kind of way, instead of being like “hey, isnt this kinda weird?” Is also concerning. imagine if the underage boy was a underage girl instead, would you still feel the same way?
Ignore the part about harada* im thinking of a specific author but i cannot remember if its the same one or their name and it is difficult to find things on here, but they are often using such themes
This is all i have been trying to say that it doesnt have to be a 17 year old specifically and theyll def have an issue if it was an underage girl. Cant u see how they r still calling this a "relationship" and vehemently defending it by implying they are equally destructive and bad cuz the younger guy pursued first with obsessive, violent intent? Idk if they have ever interacted with someone thats 30-35 as a teen cuz if they wanna they can very strictly turn you down and to a teenager a full grown intimidating adult with a secure place in society isnt something easy to go against, not to mention the physical and mental gap cuz now that im a bit older a 17 year old in my eyes is genuinely a baby you have to be sick to pursue someone that young as an adult.
Are you referring to Jieun’s comments or Fundashi-kun’s? Because the Shota Oni argument originally started from Jieun claiming anyone who reads it is automatically a pedophile, which is what I disagreed with. That’s also why I think dragging arguments from completely different manga into another comment section just makes discussions messier.
But regarding your main point, I do understand where you’re coming from more clearly now after reading a more well put explanation of it, and I don’t disagree that repeated exposure to these themes can desensitize some people or make certain communities more tolerant of them than they should be. I also understand why people question whether the underage aspect was even necessary in the first place.
Where I mainly disagree is the idea that because the story could’ve explored similar themes in another way, using a 17 year old automatically reduces it to just shock value or a writing crutch. I also don’t fully agree that changing the character to 18-20 would create the exact same effect socially or narratively, because the story intentionally frames him as a highschooler and that obviously changes how the imbalance and discomfort are perceived by the audience.
And I don’t think using taboo subject automatically means the writer lacks the ability to explore those themes in other ways. Sometimes authors deliberately choose harsher or more uncomfortable dynamics directly instead of indirectly because they want the audience to confront that discomfort more directly. People can still dislike that choice obviously, but I don’t think "it could’ve been written differently" automatically means the current frame has no reason behind it.
And I think one of my points got misunderstood a bit too. When I brought up the younger character pursuing first, I wasn’t trying to morally equalize them or remove responsibility from the adult. A 30 year old engaging with a teenager is still far more responsible in that situation. My point was only that the story seems to frame the dynamic as emotionally messy from both sides rather than focusing purely on the older character as just a straight up predator.
And yes, they are technically in a "relationship" in the story, but calling it that doesn’t mean I think it’s healthy or something people should romanticize irl. I’m talking about the way the story presents the dynamic, not endorsing it morally.
As for the "if it was an underage girl" point, I do think people tend to react even more strongly in those situations, but my point about the way the story frames the dynamic would stay the same regardless of gender. I’d still judge the writing based on what the story is trying to do with the dynamic rather than reducing the entire work to only that aspect.
At the end of the day I think we mainly disagree on whether the underage aspect adds something important to the story or whether it’s unnecessary and exploitative from the start.
Highschoolers are aged 17-19 so the maturity is the same honestly idk why u keep bringing that up, it def wont change the dynamic if the character was 18,19 or even 20 as japanese people socially transition into adulthood at 20. Theres a reason its an age group theres literally no difference between a 17 and an 18 year old, its just the moral side of things again. Anyhow good talk mate thats all i have to say
Everyone.
Check out the comment section of Shota onii and you will see @Batata defending that pedo work and insulting everyone who hates on that pedo shit.
Batata also argued with commenters who wrote counter statements under the comment of OP about wanting to rape a kid.
@"Jieun/Seol"
Insane, can't believe my eyes!! A huge misrepresentation, I'm done.
Fr what kind of weirdo criticizes someone for pointing out something illegal
Do they have to be 17 and 30 like id enjoy the dynamic a bit more if it was at least college aged