Don't like, don't read

why would a normal adult want to read about a relationship with a child and a grown ass man ?

Some people explore taboo subjects. Fairly normal in adult media e.g dark romance involving major age gaps.

but it’s not a major age gap it is pedophilia, the older one is a pedo. some people like to read shota and csam ? this isn’t dark romance, there is nothing dark here, it is romanticized shota

You are correct. I'm just using dark romance as an example.
As I said, some people indulge in fictional works with taboo subjects.
The media you consume shouldn't be the definition of your true morality.

okay but why would you specifically want to read a story about a relationship between a 10 years old and an adult ? i believe that the content you consume reflects your personality and your morality.
for example, if your child gets groomed or raped, how as an adult, a parent, could you continue on reading shota ? generally, you come to understand that what you are consuming is not morally correct when it happens to you or someone close to you.

and how come, then, is it illegal for someone to have shota on their phone or computer ? if it’s not morally wrong, why is it illegal and a crime ?

You're valid in saying that the content you consume reflects your personality and morality, because it is usually the case for most people. My statement refers to adults who reads these stuff.

With the example you gave, a traumatic experience can of course alter your perception with interacting with taboo subjects, and I would understand their condemnation for it, given their experience.

However, these works remain to be fictional and is expected to be consumed ethically. It's definitely not for the general audience and I don't expect the average person to be comfortable with this. But there are people who do, and works like these are made for them.

Thus why I stand by the 'Don't like, don't read' stance.

Unfortunately, there will always be those with ill intent, no matter the media they consume. The best way to go about this is to educate.

but you didn’t answer my questions though.

i was also talking about adults reading this stuff. and my point still stands even when it comes about adult reading shota. it stands even more, because kids/teens don’t necessarily truly understand the depth of this topic and how it is wrong. an adult knows exactly what they’re doing.

you say there will always be those with ill intent, but the general public are pedos or people who enjoy watching/reading kids getting groomed. i don’t think it should be called a taboo genre, it’s not taboo, it’s an illegal concept that shouldn’t exist at all.

so ill ask again, but why do you consume shota ( since you said it wasn’t dark romance ) what is there that you like in it, because its not a major age gap, its a grooming relationship, its too different things.
how can you be comfortable knowing that what you are reading is considered as a crime because of how morally wrong it is ? how are you comfortable in reading, even if fiction, about a child, an innocent human being getting groomed and being sexualized ?

also, as i said at the beginning of this reply, you didn’t answer my last question from my previous reply, about the reason why you don’t consider this « genre » as morally wrong, when it’s a crime in most of the countries.

To answer your question, this genre is a fictional work and fictional works do not harm actual children. While this genre has harmful themes in the story, at the end of the day, it is just a comic, and no actual children are harmed in the making of this. Making fictional shota content is clearly not a crime in Japan...

Kids and teens also should NOT be reading this. I'm not sure what else to say with this...

I'll have to disagree with your stance on this being labelled as illegal media. Real CSEM and fictional works are not the same. To label them as the same category is diminishing actual crimes against real children, because again, this is fictional.

A simple answer to your question on why i read works like this is that i just personally enjoy seeing anime men get cracked while exploring whatever dynamics the author offers. The mindset I have while reading this absolutely does not involve real life children AT ALL. I just read and enjoy. If I like it, i continue. And if I dont, i move on.

it’s not illegal because it’s harming real children, it’s illegal because it’s immoral to sexualize kids, because at the end of the day, you can’t separate fiction from reality if fiction could never exist without reality. when you create something and draw/write fiction, you are already thinking of something that is real. how would you know how to draw kids if they weren’t real ? they are real human beings, you need reality to create fiction, hence why they cannot be two separate concepts.

indeed it is legal in japan, but as i previously said, it’s illegal in most of the countries. in the US, in most states, it’s illegal and a crime to read/write about kids being sexualized. also considered as a crime in South korea ; Canada ; the UK ; France ; South Africa ; Australia and other nations.

of course teens and kids should not read this type of content, but unfortunately, because this type of content exist to fulfill adults’ fetish, kids are more likely to encounter this type of content without their consent. they are more at risk to get influenced by adults who enjoy lolisho and get groomed. hence why this « genre » is morally wrong.

i’m not sure why you’re disagreeing with me when it’s not my opinion, it’s a fact… it is illegal, fiction pedopornography is illegal.

« Laws have been enacted to criminalize "obscene images of children, no matter how they are made", typically under the belief that such materials may incite real-world instances of child sex abuse. Currently, countries that have made it illegal to possess as well as create and distribute sexual images of fictional characters who are described as, or appear to be, under the age of eighteen include ( list of countries i alrd mentionned ) »

another example from South Korea laws :

« The Supreme Court of South Korea ruled on November 8, 2019, that sexually explicit anime and manga depicting minors are child pornography »

in all : it’s not an opinion, many countries think that making up stories about minors are indeed child pornography.

once again, how is it not morally wrong for you, when i’ve showed you real evidence that this « genre » is indeed illegal in most countries ?


however, now i’m the one who will disagree with your last statement. while i agree and like to read men getting cracked, you cannot consider kids men. they are not in age of consent and are being groomed. which is two different things. the work you are reading aim for adults who have a fetish on little kids. you aren’t reading two men getting cracked but one or two children ( yes fictional but they are still, children ) getting raped and sexualized for a/some fetish.

>it’s not illegal because it’s harming real children...when you create something and draw/write fiction, you are already thinking of something that is real

How do these books harm children? Do people use it as a manual to touch kids? FICTION have always EXISTED in contemplative reality. Just because you can perceive SOMETHING in your head, doesn't mean I'm going to internalize it as a MORAL. I can think of stabbing my annoying co-worker and can even express that in writing or drawing for catharsis. Am I going to do it? Do you really think I will?

> how would you know how to draw kids if they weren’t real ? they are real human beings, you need reality to create fiction, hence why they cannot be two separate concepts.

Children have the same logistical growth chassi as you would an adult; two arms, two legs, etc. Realistically you can fathom how to draw an a child by modifying biological landmarks of adults. Akin to how you would transpose the idea on lizards into lindwurms. They've done this to make dwarves or even lalafells in FFXIV. Do you see short people and think of them as children? Its very easy to make dumb nitpicky points like yours If I choose to be equally nitpicky.

> kids are more likely to encounter this type of content without their consent. they are more at risk to get influenced by adults who enjoy lolisho and get groomed.

Are we going to remove kitchen knives because it can be used to stab people? Are we going to remove cars because they've killed millions? There are clear places for these type of fiction to exist. If children happen to meander there, its the fault of distributors and more likely, the parents of these children. Groomers exist without the permission of these type of fiction. Their continued operation belies a more systemic issue.

> i’m not sure why you’re disagreeing with me when it’s not my opinion, it’s a fact… it is illegal, fiction pedopornography is illegal.

You're being disagreed upon because you're policing a clearly adult area that assumes adult responsibility. You strike me as someone who assumes the worst in others because you cant perceive the world beyond your own space. You work in rigid moral structures because you've never had to interact with anyone who disagrees with your privileged rhetoric.

> in all : it’s not an opinion, many countries think that making up stories about minors are indeed child pornography.

Yet each country has their fair share of pedophiles hiding in esteemed positions. These type of fiction have never been the source of growing pedophilia. They offer an outlet for immoral intrusive desires everyone has. INTRUSIVE DESIRES are NOT REAL DESIRES. They provide catharsis so you DON'T entertain them.

The law has always err'd in the face of real psychoanalytical assessment. The do not deal with nuance which is why you see many accidental lawbreakers never get punished. Written law only acts as incentive unless ACTUAL PEOPLE are harmed directly.

> you cannot consider kids men.

NO SHIT. You do not consider these characters real people either if you're sound of mind. You're doing all this moral swinging while never engaging in any nuance that exists around it. You're a moral tourist.

>it’s not illegal because it’s harming real children...when you create something and draw/write fiction, you are already thinking of something that is real

How do these books harm children? Do people use it as a manual to touch kids? FICTION have always EXISTED in contemplative reality. Just because you can perceive SOMETHING in your head, doesn't mean I'm going to internalize it as a MORAL. I can think of stabbing my annoying co-worker and can even express that in writing or drawing for catharsis. Am I going to do it? Do you really think I will?

> how would you know how to draw kids if they weren’t real ? they are real human beings, you need reality to create fiction, hence why they cannot be two separate concepts.

Children have the same logistical growth chassi as you would an adult; two arms, two legs, etc. Realistically you can fathom how to draw an a child by modifying biological landmarks of adults. Akin to how you would transpose the idea on lizards into lindwurms. They've done this to make dwarves or even lalafells in FFXIV. Do you see short people and think of them as children? Its very easy to make dumb nitpicky points like yours If I choose to be equally nitpicky.

> kids are more likely to encounter this type of content without their consent. they are more at risk to get influenced by adults who enjoy lolisho and get groomed.

Are we going to remove kitchen knives because it can be used to stab people? Are we going to remove cars because they've killed millions? There are clear places for these type of fiction to exist. If children happen to meander there, its the fault of distributors and more likely, the parents of these children. Groomers exist without the permission of these type of fiction. Their continued operation belies a more systemic issue.

> i’m not sure why you’re disagreeing with me when it’s not my opinion, it’s a fact… it is illegal, fiction pedopornography is illegal.

You're being disagreed upon because you're policing a clearly adult area that assumes adult responsibility. You strike me as someone who assumes the worst in others because you cant perceive the world beyond your own space. You work in rigid moral structures because you've never had to interact with anyone who disagrees with your privileged rhetoric.

> in all : it’s not an opinion, many countries think that making up stories about minors are indeed child pornography.

Yet each country has their fair share of pedophiles hiding in esteemed positions. These type of fiction have never been the source of growing pedophilia. They offer an outlet for immoral intrusive desires everyone has. INTRUSIVE DESIRES are NOT REAL DESIRES. They provide catharsis so you DON'T entertain them.

The law has always err'd in the face of real psychoanalytical assessment. The do not deal with nuance which is why you see many accidental lawbreakers never get punished. Written law only acts as incentive unless ACTUAL PEOPLE are harmed directly.

> you cannot consider kids men.

NO SHIT. You do not consider these characters real people either if you're sound of mind. You're doing all this moral swinging while never engaging in any nuance that exists around it. You're a moral tourist.

im not blind i can read very well you don’t need to yell in your reply bruh

first of all… what? i’ve never said that, you copy pasted half of what i said ! i said it’s not illegal *because* it’s harming real children but *because* it’s morally wrong… i never said anything abt real children being harmed, and you know in a way, they are. but in this context they aren’t.
again, never said anything about adults who are 100% going to harm real children because they are reading something illegal, i said they are influenced on doing so and most of them are real pedos… what are you even saying ?

if you’re thinking of stabbing your coworker that bad that you even start writing about it, then i think you’ve got a real bad issue up there ( mentally ).. because what the heck man, which sane person would think of stabbing people and making a story about it ?


no…? why are you so rude when i’ve been having a decent debate and discussion with op ? you’re so mad just because i proved my point bruh.
short people aren’t children because they don’t look like children, that’s the thing. i’m not even talking about their height or anything like that, but you can see when it’s a kid, a child, even sometimes a baby. like cmon are you deadass now ? and when u think abt it, ur point is dumb as hell; because they’re STILL minors. you are sexually fantazing and fetishizing fictional children, that’s the issue here.


how can you even say that ??? you guys never wanna take accountability for what you read or the consequences of your favourite immoral mangas! this is wild, a wild ass statement. groomers will exist, everywhere, yes. but does that mean it’s normal for them to witness such disgusting content???? or to talk with adults who consume lolisho on a daily basis ?? like i said they are more at risk to encounter groomers and weird pedos if shota exists ! it gives credibility to pedos and that’s what you don’t understand. you’re not living in a fantasy world, it’s the reality, people are weird, pedos are everywhere and they interact with kids purposely.


you talk abt « adult responsibility » but if you were mature and responsable enough you would understand why lolisho is morally wrong and bad for our society and this manga community! i’m not policing anyone in this conversation, you just took it personally because you know i was right.

are you genuinely trying to normalize lolisho content…? « These type of fiction have never been the source of growing pedophilia. » okay. give me your proofs. i’ll wait. because this is the stupidest thing i’ve ever read in my entire life. you’re normalizing lolisho when this community is full of pedos because it gives them credibility and they feel seen because they spend time with other weird adults who want to consume immoral fetish ! i’ve NEVER in my entire life had an intrusive thought abt wanting to see a child getting raped or groomed. never in my life. as an adult, you cannot be saying things like this when it’s factually wrong. would you feel safe and would let your own child with an adult who consumes lolisho content on a daily basis ???? seriously ? because i would not. and most of the sane adults wouldn’t either.

« Written law only acts as incentive unless ACTUAL PEOPLE are harmed directly.«  again… not true. someone in my country got arrested and put in jail for ordering an human sized plushie of a sexualized minor. what? it’s just a drawing, isn’t it ? it’s just fiction, isn’t it ? laws are laws. there is a reason as to why so many pedos get arrested and put in jail for having lolisho content in their computer. perhaps YOU wouldn’t act on what you consume, but so many of them would. actually, you’re the one who’s so into liking fictional kids getting fucked that you forget the lines between moral and immoral values, you’re the one who don’t understand that this community isn’t morally okay, that people and adults aren’t there to enjoy « dark romance » but they want to see kids suffering.

see you twisted my words again haha, i said « they’re not men » because op said they liked seeing men getting cracked, so, my fatass discord mod who likes lolisho… id like to say that you got so mad boo-oo go cry abt it, you never gave me even one proof, i guess the statistics and research are up your tiny little head aren’t they? is it fictional too? they’re not men because they’re boys they’re KIDS, fictional kids getting raped and groomed. never talked abt real men

ahhh… see you created an alt just to talk to me… tf is wrong with you just use ur real account

Preface, I'm a lurker. OP was wrong when they agreed on your dumb point of equating consumption to morality. I cannot stand the irresponsible swinging of morality your dumbass is doing.

You're still making the same dumb points so I'm just going to engage in text I find worthy to respond.

> First of all… what? i’ve never said that, you copy pasted half of what i said

I am quoting locations of your text you should be looking at. Copying your entire spiel will only make what I say longer than it needs to be.

> because what the heck man, which sane person would think of stabbing people and making a story about it ?

That doesn't address if you think I would do it.

> no…? why are you so rude when i’ve been having a decent debate and discussion with op ? you’re so mad just because i proved my point bruh.

You did not prove anything. Quoting legal text is not the end of a discussion. Law is expanded through discussion and you choose to make it the final line. Have a spine and speak with the nuance this discussion deserves. You put up a barbed wall and expect people to climb it over.

> how can you even say that ??? you guys never wanna take accountability for what you read or the consequences of your favourite immoral mangas!

They are obviously immoral. You don't need us saying that to satisfy your ego masturbation. They're called TABOO for a reason. I'm addressing your dumb correlation to the existence of this material to actual crime. Very christian-caged punish logic.

> you talk abt « adult responsibility » but if you were mature and responsable enough you would understand why lolisho is morally wrong and bad for our society.

Do you have actual evidence for this or are you just going to quote law and fringe cases?Does a drop of poison render the entire ocean dangerous? Is there provable statistics to your claim? Are you going to keep arguing like a dumbass?

> are you genuinely trying to normalize lolisho content…? « These type of fiction have never been the source of growing pedophilia. » okay. give me your proofs.

I don't know where you are quoting me here so Im going to asssume its the intrusive thoughts section. Let me make it clear, FETISHES ARE WEIRD. YOU CANNOT REASON WITH FETISHES. YOU PRACTICE FETISHES IN SAFE SPACES SO YOU DON'T NEVER LET IT BE A CURIOUS ACTION IRL. You assume everyone is normal; very privileged of you.

Loli/ Shota material can definitely traverse that illegal line but never should they be equated to real CSAM. This is weird area is deserving of discussing but never with cudgel logic like what you're employing.

> Again… not true. someone in my country got arrested and put in jail for ordering an human sized plushie of a sexualized minor.

Fringe case? Nobody is going to deny this space has weirdos in it. But again, are we going to remove knives because they can kill people? Are we going to remove cars because they killed millions? Does 10 represent the entirety of 100 000?

> see you twisted my words again haha

I am using your logic and showing how stupid it is that you believe people who consume this stuff is not aware of the obvious.

> you never gave me even one proof, i guess the statistics and research are up your tiny little head aren’t they? is it fictional too?

You never cited anything worthy of use either? Its just law and thats declarative. You're relying on empiricism that you don't understand. You never pulled statistical context to work up your claim. You're pulling rhetoric because you have no idea how to argue.

Your thesis is consumption = moral. I think thats a very fascist way to view things because you choose to not see the human. You choose to assume evil when you've never spoken to the accused. You do not speak with understanding, only malice. I'm giving you too much credit with my words. You're essentially just stupid.

not gonna engage with you anymore nor read what u just said, i still see no references, you calling me stupid alright boo go cry

Its alright, I don't think you're capable of working a cell in that brain of yours to read a sentence you can't agree with.

I was asleep.

Not sure what i woke up to, but i just wanna preface that your statement of "you need reality to create fiction, hence why they cannot be two separate concepts." is very situational. It can be an extraction of reality, though it does not necessarily have to be, especially for works like these. Just because an author writes a story with problematic themes does not mean they endorse it. Works like these are ultimately for the purpose of entertainment, nothing more.

At the same time, I am not going to deny that there are outliers to this.

It's a crime to read/write about CSEM, as you said, 'typically under the belief that such materials may incite real-world instances of child sex abuse.'

These laws are for explicit materials purposefully created to promote real life grooming and CSEM. Works like these are not like that.

There are researches on ethical consumption of these types of works. For many like me, its a form of casual entertainment and for some, it's a coping mechanism for non-offending pedos which are a valid form of therapy to prevent them from acting on their impulses. While there are grey areas to consuming taboo fiction, actually do I recommend checking them out

Omg i hit send before fully explaining the last part lol. Please ignore the last part.

While there are grey areas to consuming taboo fiction, they shouldnt be dismissed outright.

I recommend checking out some articles written by psychologists and studies on people who consume this.

Your last statement on me reading this work, I am not trying to persuade you into liking what I enjoy. Yes it's a fetishistic content and it is weird to many, but that doesn't mean we should be put in jail for reading this.