gigglin n kicking my feet

"supposedly"? he pushed his students so far that they struggle with either addiction or anxiety, he is problematic he is an abuser, it’s not supposedly.

Why are we acting like the professor isn't abusive af in his teaching methods he is problematic and that is part of what makes his character interesting

i meant his behaviour/ treatment towards garam specifically tht's going on in the present. i was referring only to his obsession, possessiveness, pushiness and lack of boundaries in his rltsp with garam. outside of tht we hvn seen him treat others abusively either. That doesn't mean i'm denying he ever was abusive.

hope u guys don misinterpret what i said like my comment before, cus i never meant to imply tht prof was *never* behaving 'problematic' or abusive will he act abusive again? possibly, is he being abusive right now to anyone? no, was he before? absolutely yes. the mental scars he left on the ppl may be lifelong but if he isn't acting as he was before, to call that abusive doesn sit right w me. past, present future guys, i think time matters when it comes to describing ppl :') behaviour alone can't soley describe one's nature as a whole methinks

then how would u describe him? he has physically abused his students to the point that they all had scars from his hands, he mentally abused them to the point that one of them was addicted to alcohol and others have to take lexapro bc he pushed them so hard that they have genuine trauma. not even gonna talk abt how verbally abusive he is… and he also sexually abused garam in chapter 123.
there really isn’t any other way to describe him but as an abuser

u don need to bring up his victims and wat they have to go through, i know, well done for pointing out the obvious facts. But imo the topic of describing people and human nature in general is complex and i personally don't have the right, nor do i really think anyone has the right to judge others when we're flawed ourselves but tht's wat *I* think. Yeah there are people that have done shittier things than others but there'll always ALWAYS be a truth/ a side to someone that i or others haven't seen or understood. the life of smone can span for YEARS and wat makes ppl do certain things r so interconnected with social, environmental and biological factors, even being by someone's side 24/7 can't make u their mind reader. to minimise all this to simply labels when *describing* a person as a whole is just, idk, it's too black and white to me. That's just my personal philosophy.
also i think this the same for his 'victims' too, their identity aren't just 'heejae's victims' either who r determined by their mental scars. immediately jumping to sympathy because their character is 'someone who needs to take lexapro' or was 'abused' is superficial imo. They r just fictional ppl so it's not like they really have a 'life' we hvn't seen but who knows, if they were real i guarantee u they aren't perfect ppl, cus ppl who were 'abused' or taking meds r just as capable of causing harm to others. That's what i mean by there's always more than one side to someone and labels are insufficient to describing someone's identity.

we can agree to disagree, your points don’t make sense to me, and especially when you don’t necessarily seem to see his students as victims then you put the word victim in quote. my question was more about why you don’t see him as an abuser which he is, because even if he is more than an abuser, he is still a character that caused harm to everyone in this manhwa.
i’m obviously going to feel more sympathy for his students who went thru abuse, rather than him. he isn’t a character people should like and that’s the point, so i still don’t get why you would sort of defend him when he’s already been labeled as a villain. even youngjo had more complexity than him.
i can only see him in black and white because i will never sympathize with someone who willingly hurt people around him for 50 years of his life without even apologizing once.

sure we all have our flaws, but being an abuser and sexually abusing someone isn’t a flaw it’s being a piece of shit.

also if i were to add in my own experience, my father was also verbally abusive like heejae was. There were moments he was violent too and it led to an incident where i broke down and ran to gp to get help but they called the police o(-( which i didn expect. n the bruise from when he kicked me in the midst of tht argument was taken in as proof tht got him arrested. but right now? he's the most loving father i can have. i still hv trauma from his outbursts and am taking sertraline consistently for abt 2 yrs now so i was a victim and he was someone absuive but that's not all there is to me or him. but if i hadn mentioned he's someone who adores me to death u wuld hv just called him problematic and an abuser right?

yeah that’s exactly why we disagree on this matter bby … my father was physically abusive too, not for long though, and same for my mother. my mother is a narcissist person so iykyk, and i resent both of them so badly.
i guess trauma depends on how everyone feels. it wouldn’t even matter if my mom came to my crying and asking for forgiveness or if she tries to be a loving mother for the next 50 decades, i will always resent her for treating me like dogshit.
that’s exactly why i cant sympathize with heejae. you cant adore someone and especially not ur own child after hurting them and making them suffer to the point of being the reason to their trauma.

this is a pancake and waffles situation, you're putting words in my mouth. i'm putting victims in quote becus first and formost they are PEOPLE. because their identity isn't just being a victim. i do see him as an abuser, when he was abusive, but he isn't behaving the same as he was. I literally said I'm not denying that he's caused harm to people. Also i never mentioned i like him either, so idk where u got tht from? i'm not rly defending anyone, my personal philosphy is that i think there's more to someone than what they hv done. I get tht u don want to sympathise nor empathise with such 'abusers' but it's a hard to swallow pill, ppl can chage, and there r ppl that can't either. but just because i don't see him or real life criminals/ abusers as simply permanent villains or monsters doesn't mean i'm on their side nor defending them. law n justicr is flawed n an ideological concrpt, hence y i think forgiveness and judgement isn't up to me/ others, but instead the victims of the abusers. so b4 u conclude from my para tht i am defending abusers NO i'm not, i have no opinion towards them cus i hv no right to judge.

im not saying u defend abuserS but you do defend him to an extent and i never put words in ur mouth that’s just what u said. you say that he has changed but he literally hasn’t because he still has anger issues and he stills abuse garam… no later than a few chapter ago he abused him sexually. there’s a limit to how much someone can change and he never will change, at least from what we know.

sure the students are people before being victims but that’s not the point of this conversation at all since i brought them up to justify why heejae is an abuser.

if you think that forgiveness isn’t up to you but to their victims then how can u say he has changed when his students still feel remorse and hatred towards him? they haven’t and will never forgive the professor because of how much they have suffered from his teaching style. i don’t really get ur point on that..

erm, i'm not rly defending him i'm just stating what i'm observing. i mean. he has changed... no? compare his early self to current self i think most wuld agree he seems pr diff? the dubcon was a bit uncomfortable to read, i didn like tht he did tht to garam, but well, if garam's ok then who am i to judge. Garam was upset abt it and scolded him lightly but evidently it hasn't traumatised him and he said i wuote, he liked it too. tht's just wat i'm observing ok o(-( still tho, prof can't respect garam's boundaries n acts selfishly and pushy but i don't think u culd describe tht as 'heejae is abusing garam' or 'heejae is an abuser to garam' rn.

i brought up he victims bit becus, in short, i think there is more than a label u put on someone, the victims was just an example.

garam is someone who has forgiven him. Kruger and the older sis are not. But again why does MY judgement matter, when i'm not a victim of his, is what i'm trying to say. I have nothing, or no one to 'forgive' if no harm was brought to ME. u can call him problematic if tht's wat u think but i personally just wuldn slap tht label on him or anyone else so simply, becus again, it's not up to me.

hold up, what? that’s not it. even if he abused garam sexually it doesn’t mean garam will end up traumatized. in this chapter, garam wasn’t up for it at all and he was actually terrified, it’s not that he was okay, he didn’t want it and the professor forced him, so it’s rape. also that’s one of the thing that i HATE in yaoi, the bottom scolds the top has if it’s okay for the top to continue to do whatever he wants and for the bottom to just take it. it was a gross scene because garam didn’t want it and EVEN in the morning the professor forced himself on him again when garam said he didn’t want it. that’s when it can be labeled as rape, it’s not because garam eventually find pleasure in this scene that it makes it okay. heejae not respecting garam’s boundaries is wrong and shouldn’t be justified at all. that’s why i said ure defending him to SOME EXTENT. since ure not labelling him as what he is.
and he didnt really change he’s still physically abusive with garam even in the latest chapter he verbally abuse him like that’s not an improvement i fear.

yeah the victims are more than a label i was justifying my point, they’re not just victims of course.

if you think this one then irl what do u think of ppl who commit very bad things when it doesn’t concern you? it’s up to u to be neutral but being neutral already says what you think of a situation. being neutral is the worst thing u can do, i mean seriously it’s not bc you didn’t suffer from his hands that ure not allowed to judge him. trump is a piece of shit who killed countless of people and you still will live with that philosophy ? not putting words in ur mouth but stating what you said, idk if u think this way abt trump or not u tell me, it’s an example

uh huh, alright. u do u.

n also dude i'm just trynna get through another day, i'd rather not waste my energy on hatred and judging others for how shitty they r being, i'm just here to enjoy my yaoi. honestly, i applaud u for being so righteous and sympathetic for the ppl out there. y not take tht ambition n go build up an organisation to save all the victims and suffering ppl, instead of policing me here

sigh okay whatever we can never have a proper conversation or debate with ppl like u yeah sure im a hater for speaking up my opinion okay bye