garbage

I could hardly consider this incest tbh, technically it is bc they’re related by coming from the same parent god but they’re not human… it’s feels pointless to apply human morals and ethics upon gods who only serves their own purpose and desires.

Also enjoying such dark stories like these doesn’t immediately mean it’s a kink. People can enjoy these bc they know it’s fiction and that’s where the line is drawn, I like the incest/SA/ and other taboos in stories not bc I want it to happen to me or to others, it doesn’t make it my kink. You’re weird for saying that. I like these elements bc it keeps the story entertaining and it there to intentionally make feel and think for myself like this or that scene is bad or this character is bad for doing it, so I feel bad and that’s the point, it succeeded in evoking a feeling regardless if that’s good or bad which is what creative works/art are supposed to do.

I get what you're saying, but I think you're giving “it's fiction” way too much credit here. You can recognize that something is fictional without treating “it’s fiction” as a carte blanche that exempts it from moral judgment. Obviously enjoying a fictional portrayal of SA or other taboo subjects doesn't mean you want it happening to you or someone else, but that doesn't suddenly make the interest itself immune to criticism either. If someone says they genuinely enjoy stories where coercion, rape, incest, etc. are used as entertainment or major sources of appeal, I don't think it's unreasonable to question that taste. You don't have to secretly want those things in real life for people to find the enjoyment uncomfortable or disturbing, especially when these aren't just imaginary concepts with no real-world equivalent. And the “they're gods so it's hardly incest” point doesn't really work for me either. Their species being different from humans doesn't somehow nullify the familial relationship the story itself establishes; if characters are deliberately written as being related and that relationship is then sexualized, calling it incest is hardly some bizarre stretch. You can say their world doesn't follow human ethics, sure, but that doesn't erase what the relationship is. Also, ENNEAD already had plenty to work with without relying so heavily on sexual violence. The power struggle, mythology, betrayal, manipulation and the characters' messed up relationships were interesting enough on their own. A story can make you angry, uncomfortable or fascinated through its writing without rape or sexual assault having to carry that weight. You can enjoy those elements for whatever reason you do, that's obviously your choice, but I'm allowed to look at that same enjoyment and think it's pretty questionable. That's kinda the point of having opinions lol.

Tell me you've never read Egyptian (or Greek tbh) mythology without telling me you've never read Egyptian or Greek mythology. Yeah, of course this story is going to have dark, difficult themes that clash with our modern mindsets. Understand that these elements you're talking about were established by the mythos itself, not just arbitrarily invented in this webtoon to satisfy some modern author's/audience's "fucked up kinks."

Creating a story based on the lore of the Egyptian Ennead and having these darker themes (godly incest, rape, abuse of divine power) is like making a story about sirens and having them drown sailors. It's a darker side of the lore you're engaging with--these stories have evolved over the course of human history, in different times than our own, and that means there are going to be things that don't adhere to our modern morals. That doesn't mean everyone reading and enjoying the hypothetical siren story likes seeing people drown, or that everyone reading this series just does it for their "fucked up kinks." (Also, I can't believe there are actually people kinkshaming in the comments section of mangago, of all places).

It can definitely be uncomfortable to read the rape scenes (it always hurts my heart to see Seth suffering) but with the exception of that one early bonus chapter set in an AU, none of the nonconsensual intimacy in this series is glorified or portrayed as something to enjoy. Also, they DO HAVE warnings at the beginning of chapters containing rape and/or violence. So you can definitely avoid it if you want to.

That's not even addressing the fact that this story is MEANT, at times, to be heavy and uncomfortable. The CORE themes in this webtoon revolve around complex relationships between guilt and fear, past sins and present atonement, what it means to be a god, and the nature of humanity. The romance is similarly nuanced, engaging with questions about vengeance and forgiveness, loyalty and obsession, and rejection and companionship.

Also, we're at chapter 212. Not sure when you stopped reading, but given that you didn't even read the whole story, you're in absolutely no place to say "more than half" of the romance is just "rape and sexual assault." The comment is a) frustrating, and b) objectively wrong. The relationship between Seth and Horus has been developed far more through non-sexual interactions than it has sexual ones.

Don't like, don't read. But you don't need to call the series "garbage" either.

oh my god pagi is just sharing their opinion. its NOT that deep yall

and anyone is allowed to express there disagreement with his opinion , not a big deal ╮(￣▽￣)╭

agree with you , I like UNCHANGED MAN alot , not because I have a kink for all those dark themes like r@pe and all but the way author has wrote it , every chapter just makes you want more .

Unless it’s done in bad taste, I’d rather not put too much effort into criticizing taboo elements in fiction and put that energy into actual real life cases of criminal assault and speak out about discrimination and injustice then donate at least a dollar in charities than cry about what my toxic yaoi did.

People nowadays have too much rage and criticism towards media with dark stories when it really is **just fiction** and crucifying fictional characters then the authors by extension without even considering that the story is all about those dark elements, then proceed it to call it garbage for being what it is exactly suppose to be? Are you gonna call people garbage for being who they are too? You seem like the type to do so when you assumed people has to have a kink for Taboos to be able to read or enjoy stories that has it? You didn’t even finish the entire story and that immediately makes your opinions the only garbage here besides it being invalid, because you do not know or even acknowledge that god mythos has a plethora of stories that crosses all sorts of boundaries because their whole entire being is their untouchability and driven by their selfishness. Does that sound familiar? That’s what Ennead is! Egyptian Mythos! And SA is ultimate boundary cross! You would know that if you read it instead of getting pissy for it being dark, what the hell were you expecting reading this? Parties and puppies?

I am so terribly sorry for not being an expert on Egyptian mythology and simply wanting to read a story without extensive prior knowledge about it!! I genuinely didn't know there were qualifications required before you're allowed to have an opinion on a manhwa!!!

I think you're reading a lot more into my comment than I actually said.. I never claimed people should care more about fictional SA than real victims, nor did I say everyone who reads dark fiction is secretly into those things. I've explained that distinction several times now, so I'm honestly getting a little tired of having to repeat it. I can care about real-life assault, support victims, and still criticize media that uses sexual violence as a major narrative device. Those things aren't mutually exclusive. “It's just fiction” also doesn't settle the discussion. Of course it's fiction. That doesn't mean I'm suddenly forbidden from judging what I find distasteful in it. And saying my opinion is “invalid” because I didn't finish the story is especially silly. If something I encountered was already enough to make me drop it, why would I force myself through the rest just to earn permission to dislike it? I also don't need a mythology lecture to understand that ENNEAD is based on Egyptian mythology. Ancient myths being full of boundary-crossing doesn't mean every modern adaptation gets a free pass from criticism, especially when the author has already taken plenty of liberties with the source material. And “what were you expecting, parties and puppies?” isn't really the 'AHA, I GOTCHU NOW!!' you think it is. I expected something dark. I just didn't expect *that* particular kind of dark to be something I could tolerate. (That is why I made my comment in the first place, like I've quoted with my reply to the other guy who responded to my original comment— it was for other readers like me who got into this shit for the plot and more but didn't expect the manwha to be leaning so much into that negative shit.)There were plenty of other ways to build tension—political conflict, betrayal, manipulation, religious power struggles, psychological drama—without leaning so heavily on SA. You can think the story accomplished exactly what it wanted to. I thought it was shitty, dropped it, and warned people who might feel the same. That's literally it. I really don't know why this has turned into a whole courtroom defense of a manhwa I already told you I didn't like lol.

Idk why it got cut off but here's the rest

Ahem but in all seriousness ,ENNEAD is an original BL work inspired by Egyptian mythology, not some exact recreation of the ancient myths, and the author has already changed and expanded plenty of things to create their own version of the story, including relationships, characterizations, chronology and how the mythology itself is used. So if the author could alter all of that to fit their own narrative, I don't really see why the sexual violence suddenly has to be treated like some untouchable part of the source material. They had creative control, which means they had choices. They could've focused more on the political conflict, power struggles, betrayal, mythology or psychological side of the story, but they chose to include rape and SA as major parts of these relationships. Whether that was meant to make the story darker, more dramatic or emotionally provocative doesn't change the fact that I found the choice awful. The “they're gods, so modern morals don't apply” argument is also kinda beside the point because I'm criticizing the manhwa, not ancient Egypt. The author is a modern person making deliberate choices about how these characters and situations are written, so yes, I can judge those choices. And you say I'm kinkshaming people, but I'm not really sure why having a kink suddenly means that preference is beyond criticism. A kink is literally a sexual interest or preference, so if someone openly says they enjoy fictional portrayals of rape, SA, incest or other taboo subjects, I'm allowed to find that preference uncomfortable or morally questionable without claiming they secretly want those things to happen in real life. Obviously you have every right to enjoy what you enjoy and I have every right to have my own boundaries around what I find acceptable. We don't even know each other personally, so you don't have to care whether your preferences cross my boundaries, just like I'm not going to pretend they don't simply because you disagree with me. That's also why I made my original comment for readers who want to know what they're getting into, especially people who might be interested in the mythology, adventure and heavier themes but aren't expecting the amount of rape and SA involved. I'm not obligated to tell you exactly when I stopped reading, but I will tell you that you are most probably aware that the relationship DID start with rape and SA, not to mention the incest, and that was enough for me to drop it. I genuinely DO NOT CARE if they eventually developed emotional or romantic progress because that doesn't erase what made me dislike the relationship in the first place. So I do not get why you're arguing with me and pushing me to feel like I'M IN THE WRONG for having an opinion. I can call the story garbage if I want to. I can call it shitty, you can call it deep and meaningful, somebody else can call it a masterpiece, and I would not give a fuck, because at the end of the day it's a personal opinion. You don't have to agree with mine and I sure as hell don't have to agree with yours. I said what I thought, I warned people who might want that warning, and that's pretty much it.

Thank you so much for being the most reasonable person in this comment section. Genuinely don't get why ppl are so pressed against me talking about how I felt and thought of the story. Like I said in my og com I didn't care about the manwhas/authors' fans, it wasn't made to insult these ppl but to spread awareness to the new readers interested in giving this story a try.

Conveniently ignoring the mentions of how such elements is pre-established and it is an essential part of the mythos to convey a story based on it, so yes you are wrong for calling it garbage because you’re ignorant of the context provided and announcing that you’re dropping it because it has SA is fine and all but you are more than clear with how you see the series as nothing more than it’s SA.

And I do not care that I don’t know you personally, you’re in a public site in a comment section you and your garbage opinions are free game. Especially for 1.) immediately assuming people’s kinks are fucked up based on what media they consume and 2.) kink shaming people who actually has it as a kink. There’s a thing called bondage let me remind you! Not to mention actual SA survivors who copes with sexual activities and there is no limit to how extreme it would be.

It’s not even about the manhwa’s plot anymore, it’s how you’ve disrespected it by focusing on one of its elements and painted the whole thing bad despite it having other details to makes the whole story up with things that draws you in like you said: the politics, the drama, conflicts which was all still present but you chose to focus not on those and instead it’s on the SA.

And if it was just to warn people about the contents present in Ennead, a simple “Hey there’s SA in this series” would’ve been fine, but saying that people who have fucked up tastes would enjoy this was unnecessary and targeted no matter how much you defend yourself.

LMAO OKAY SO FIRST OF ALL why are you replying to a comment that's not for you??

The very first sentence you wrote already makes your argument dismissive, presumptuous, and honestly pretty disrespectful to the second party, aka me. What exactly gives you the authority to tell me I'm wrong for having an opinion? “An opinion is a personal belief, judgment, or way of thinking about something that isn't fully proven or based on absolute certainty.” In case you needed the reminder, which makes me feel a little sad for you :( lol. Your reasoning for why I'm supposedly “wrong” for calling the story garbage is ridiculous because how exactly am I ignorant of the context? I know ENNEAD draws from Egyptian mythology. I know those myths contain plenty of disturbing, morally complicated and boundary-crossing material. What I don't understand is why you're acting like that means the author had no say in how those things were brought into the manhwa. The mythology may be where the ideas came from, but the author still decided what to change, expand, emphasize and turn into an actual storyline. So knowing the source material doesn't mean I suddenly have to like every decision made with it. When did I ever directly say SA was the only thing going for ENNEAD? When did I deny the politics, mythology, drama and conflicts that exist throughout the story? Atp you're arguing against your own version of what I said because half of this isn't even what I've been saying, and it's honestly getting tiring having to explain the same point in five different ways. And your “I don't care that I don't know you personally” part is honestly hilarious because bro, this comment wasn't even made for you!!1!!1 You're not the only person I'm talking to, and I'm sorry if you felt a little left out because I gave them more attention, but that doesn't suddenly mean you get to snatch the response I gave to them!! :(( Still replied to you though because I am simply so kind and considerate!! ^^And yes, we're on a public site. Me and my opinions are free game. But so are yours, and calling my opinion garbage doesn't somehow make yours more correct. And sir, what exactly do you think made ME think those people's kinks were “fucked up”? It's because the story contains sexual violence, incest and other subjects that cross my personal boundaries. That's literally why I used that wording. I'm describing how I view those interests according to my own morals, not declaring some universal law that every person who reads ENNEAD is a terrible human being. I hope that finally clears it up because I'm genuinely trying my best!! To be patient!! And spell!! Out!! Every!! Little!! Thing!! For!! You!!. Your point about SA survivors coping through certain kinds of fiction doesn't really change what I said either. I never said their experiences make them bad people, and I never claimed every person who likes dark fiction has the same reason for doing so. People cope differently. Fine. That can explain someone's relationship with certain material, but it doesn't mean everyone else has to view that material the same way. You can understand why someone likes something without personally approving of it. Then there's the whole “you disrespected the story by focusing on one element” thing. Do you know why I've only been talking about that element? BECAUSE IT'S THE REASON I DROPPED IT. I didn't sit there and pretend the politics, mythology or drama didn't exist. I focused on the thing that made me stop reading because, shockingly, that's usually what people talk about when explaining why they dropped something. If the SA and incest hadn't crossed such a hard line for me, I probably would've kept reading. As a fellow writer, I can see that ENNEAD had potential, which honestly makes it more frustrating that those choices completely killed the experience for me. You keep acting like I read the story with my eyes closed and saw nothing except SA when that's simply not what happened. I saw the other elements. They just weren't enough to outweigh the things I couldn't stand. And yes, I was blunt with my wording. I'm not going to rewrite my entire comment because you didn't like how I phrased it. You can criticize the wording if you want, that's fair, but don't keep assigning arguments to me that I never made just because they're easier to fight. I know why I dropped the story. I know what bothered me. I said it publicly because other readers might want to know before starting it. If that's the way you saw my comment, then go ahead and criticize me all you like, but don't speak for other people as if they all share your interpretation of what I said. You calling my opinion garbage is still just your opinion of my opinion; making it sound certain doesn't suddenly turn it into some objective verdict on what I meant or how everyone else is supposed to view it. You're free to disagree with me, but you're not the spokesperson for every other readers' interpretation of my comment.

Thank you pagi so much for stating that, l am definitely not gonna read this. I love people who read a comic, and when they don't like it, they state exactly why don't like it. I've been saved from reading garbage story's because of people like you

Hello! I'm glad my comment was able to help you make a decision on whether you should read the story or not. When the notification came that another person had replied to my comment I thought it was someone devaluing and dismissing my opinion again lol but thank you for sharing your insights aswell!!

Gahh what's with the paragraphs Σ( ￣□￣||)