Criticism is important, for any story. These themes especially are absolutely worth discussing, fiction or not. Because they're deeply rooted in reality.
If they hate seeing the comments...why read the comments? Everyone is allowed to read, whether they like or dislike the story.
I never understood how the people saying "dont like dont read" never took their own advice for comment binging.
On that note: this is JINX level of argument that is NOT neccesita! Lmao. No bueno, pretty sure the porn writer guy just enjoyed living out a porno fantasy he wrote at one point!
Actually, you know, whenever I try to counter them with a whole argument, with detailed context, they just don't read it because of TL;DR, and they say, “Mind your own business” and “just don't read it if you're not liking it.” Bro, you don't have any fucking argument about what I said. They don't read it, and then they complain about reading comprehension when their own mind is fucked.
And I can totally clearly say to you, these are teenagers who call other teenagers because they wanna have attention. These are attention seekers. If you don't read, I know I have reading comprehension. If I have a mature mind, I exactly know what I like and what I dislike. But everything is not about the story. Some stories are written in such a way, and you can already see that authors are deliberately writing rape stories when they were totally unnecessary. Like, the whole story was going totally good for 50 chapters, and unexpectedly we see a rape scene. Do you think people will just go on with it? No. People are not like you teenagers.
And I can pretty much tell you that teenagers are the most emotional, because I was also naive when I was a teenager, and I also got upset about things, but it was emotional immaturity. But when I grew up, I knew that these were important things that I should have learned at that age. If I didn't have that and had a cold-ass attitude about all these things, I wouldn't have grown into the adult I am now.
I know everyone has different opinions, different scenarios that they grew through, and everyone has different things about things. I also read some fucked-up shit in my teenagehood, but I never complained about it. But it was only in adulthood that I got to know these were shit. And being horny might tell you that it is good because you're horny, bro. I also like that shit. But when you grow up, you literally get detached from it, and you see what was morally gray and what was not. Obviously, you will criticize if someone is deliberately trying to add things when they were totally unnecessary.
And if someone says it is not normalized, what the fuck are you saying when you're totally saying hundreds of stories are getting the same things? I don't know. And when I try to give them these whole numbers that are actually the numbers of people who are getting on with reality, they say that it doesn't affect reality. And when I give them numbers of how much it is affecting reality and people's minds, then they don't reply to me and just block me.
I read all of this and understand. I see both sides: the issue is context I guess. I understood people being upset about Legs That Dont Walk or Jinx for example again. The plot was... non-exist and it was repetitive chapter after chapter of rape. And it was written to cater to those who read it for the rape, by romanticing the characters' relations and the nonconsensual scenes.
Having a story rich with world building and letting the reader's understand the character, only for them to suddenly be raped 30+ chapters DOES throw most readers off. Cough pearlboy.
And kudos for the teenager part of what you wrote. Pretty sure most people that read rape porn after rape porn and argue that it isn't rape are, in fact, teens. Hormonal, emotionally unregulated, teenagers. Or some normal adult with a personal fantasy, that they wouldn't take outside irl because they know better. That is where the argument arises most. And it is a very good discussion to have. Are we raising a generation of young people on rape porn? What will that wntail for the future?
At least most the adults that read porn can acknowledge the porn being unreal or morally disregarded, but if that's their personal fantasy, who cares?
My issue is fetishizing and normalizing abuse and rape. And doing it loudly. I was once a teen who read constant rape fetishizing porn. Like, kidnapping and gangbanging. My initial thoughts were "thats hot". All of it. Differentiating realty from fiction is important. But acknowledging the reality shown through fiction is also important. How many rape porns does the internet need? There is a copius amoint! Some with shitty art or barely any plot... unnecessary.
I know there was dubious consent throughout this entire story specifically, and I continued reading it, enjoying it, knowing it would be dubious from the beginning. So I am also a bit confused when people came over talking about the rape. Not the acknowledging it part, but saying they dislike it and rape in porn is bad.
This was dubcon at best. And, hate to be the bearer of bad news, rape in porn doesn't equal bad.
There is an astounding amount of rape in porn, moreso than ever, I hear you. And I definitely understand and agree with concerns. This one, specifically, with the way the plot was going and how it was open about the fetishes, doesn't deserve to be bashed and have a witch trial for the author.
I appreciate what you wrote calmly to me btw. It makes it harder for people (all of us) to have conversations when there is just argument after argument and then a block.
I tjink we'd be more agreeable and find more middle ground with honesty tbh.
The wsy the story is handing these themes is with full throttle sex appeal. So I dont really see an issue. I can see it for what it is, but I dont see an issue here specifically. While rape culture is very real and on the rise, I dont think this story perpetuates it. I wish we could have people say "wasn't that nonconsensual?" on a porn without people attacking each other. "Yes/no it is/wasnt", "I didnt like that in the story/I dont think it helps the plot because xyz," "I disagree/agree because yadda yadda". Ta da! Adult conversation on a story meant for adults. Love to see it.
Im constipated on the toilet rn hope this makes sense and comes off as candor, not arguing aith you!
Noooo some edited parts went out the window. "Reading rape fantasy after rape fantasy" part got muddled. Some who read it and acknowledge it as adults are fine. That is normal to have fantasies. Ignoring that it is rape when it is fiction or not is just delusion, we CANNOT change the description of rape omg that got muddled sooo badly
Okay, okay, I get your point too, and I actually agree with it. The only problem is when people tell me, “Bro, these are just fictional stories.” I can counter that because fiction has always been written to portray human experiences and human-to-human relationships in a way that people can understand and relate to.
If it was some completely fictional creature that we as humans have no connection to being raped, then obviously I wouldn't relate it to real human relationships in the same way. But when you're deliberately adding a rape scene between two human characters and portraying that relationship in a certain way, people are obviously going to discuss and criticize how it is being written. Saying “it's fiction” doesn't automatically end the conversation.
And I've seen so many people say, “We've complained about this so many times, we're numb to it now. The author isn't going to do shit anyway.” I haven't gone numb to it because I don't think we should become numb to it in the first place. The fact that something has happened repeatedly doesn't mean we should stop criticizing it.
That's also the problem I have with BL specifically. Rape has been present in the genre for decades, even in older yaoi, and the genre has historically had a lot of sexualization of abusive or non-consensual relationships. At the same time, we don't see nearly as many stories actually dealing with the consequences of those actions. Where are the stories showing the perpetrator being held accountable? Where are the consequences? Where are the stories actually making it clear that this is fucked up and shouldn't be treated as normal?
I'm not saying authors aren't allowed to write rape. Obviously, they have the creative freedom to write whatever they want. My point is that when the sheer amount of rape fetishization keeps increasing while the moral consequences and accountability are barely represented, people are obviously going to question what kind of pattern the genre is creating.
And that's why “it's fictional” isn't really a complete response to the criticism. I'm not saying every person who reads it will suddenly become a rapist or that fiction directly determines someone's morals. I'm saying that when people repeatedly consume the same portrayal over a long period of time, some people can become desensitized to it, and we've literally seen people admit that they've become numb to it themselves. Not everyone will be affected in the same way, obviously, but that doesn't mean the effect can simply be dismissed.
Fiction can be fictional while still portraying real human behavior, relationships, sexuality, abuse, and consequences. So if people are going to discuss those things in fiction, then people should also be allowed to criticize how they're portrayed instead of constantly being told, “It's just fiction, don't read it.”
Like, I have almost never seen, in most of these stories, an ML who has raped the MC actually go through any criminal or legal consequences. Have these authors never thought that they should add legal consequences? None. I haven't seen an ML who literally ruined the MC's life actually face consequences legally. Instead, they always go for a redemption arc, but the redemption is usually emotional or physical—it rarely involves the actual consequences that should come from those actions.
So I think if an author is going to write these things, they should also write the consequences of those actions. That should be added to the genre too. Then, and only then, people can actually understand that these are not things that should be normalized in the first place. I know people have different morals and can read whatever the fuck they want, but when the same harmful actions are repeatedly shown without any real consequences, while the perpetrator just gets a redemption arc and ends up with the MC, I think it's completely fair to criticize that pattern.
Teenagers are going to read these stories too, and obviously people have different levels of maturity and understanding. So if the genre is going to keep showing these things, there should at least be an equal amount of stories showing that these actions actually have consequences. Otherwise, you're constantly showing the fucked-up action while barely showing what should happen afterward.
It's okay i got that point
Beautifully written.
"It is fiction, not real" will always make me bite my wrist in frustration
Tl/Dr
It SUCKS ASS when you have a well thought prose to your opinion, trying to respond calmly, be civilized, with a valid point, especially regarding a topic that leads to argument, only to be told "not real, dont read, youre too sensitive" and then blocked righr after
At that point you get to take a deep breath and remind yourself youre the bigger person at the end of the day.
This isnt some MorAl HIgHgRoUnd. It is an absolutely real issue to concern ourselves with. Being wary isnt bad.
If I wanted to act morally better I wouldnt BE on this site lets all be so fr now.
I can already tell the people who keep calling others “teenagers” for criticizing fictional rape, abuse, or other fucked-up themes usually don’t have an actual argument. Instead of addressing the criticism, they moral-police people and try to make them feel stupid for discussing fiction. If you don’t like the comment, fucking scroll past it. Nobody asked you to police what other people can criticize. Mind your own shit and shut the fuck up. Goodbye.