I don’t feel like this is rape. To me the seme seems aggressive but not violent. It didn...

I agree! The seme seduced the uke quite aggressively but he didn't rape him.

Ok do u guys even know what rape IS? it's NONCONSENSUAL SEX. as in THERE WAS NO PERMISSION. and it doesn't matter if "he looked like he enjoyed it" he didn't give a yes, and that means a no regardless. It's cuz of ignorance like this that ppl think rape is okay and their victims are afraid to come out about their own case. This may be fiction and you can enjoy it as a guilty pleasure or wtvr but let's just get the fact that this IS rape straight. Ok?

Well, rape is a common yaoi plot device and the characters are fictional. In real life, rape can by no means be legitimised, however, this is a work of fiction and if this was rape (well, rape "yaoi-style"; as in, a fetishised, often, ambiguous interpretation of nonconsensual intercourse ) it was intentional on the author's part. If the author had emphasised the psychological impact it had had on the uke, I'd have considered it rape. Well, maybe I'm just getting too used to seeing rape in yaoi mangas - it's so common that it doesn't really affect me emotionally unless the emotional impact it has on the guy who was raped get emphasised in some sort of way; then I get really upset. ╥﹏╥ I'm really tired of seeing rape in yaoi, though, but this just doesn't seem like rape to me - in real life, it would probably be considered nonconsensual but considering the fact that this is yaoi, it appears to me more like a serious case of going-with-the-flow-of-the-situation-and-maybe-regretting-it-in-an-instant kind of thing, in my opinion. ://

Ok the fact that this is yaoi chages nothing. It doesn't matter the context what's rape is rape. Whether that is something you enjoy or not is a different matter. I never said anything about ppl liking reading this stuff cuz that's totally understandable as a fellow fujoshi. However it's really disappointing to me that ppl are not seeing this for what it is. All I'm saying is to know for a fact what it is before anything else. It's obvious it was intentional for the author, they wrote it. That doesnt mean we should think of it as anything else than why it is. This is rape. Its rape in a work of fiction, rape painted very appealingly(To some), but it IS rape.

It’s fiction so I’m not that upset but it’s still rape. If someone had sex with you and you said no or stop, it’s not consensual and therefore rape. Rape victims all the time are ashamed of themselves bc they ejaculated during the rape even tho it’s normal to bc the body is being pleasured, even if the person doesn’t want it.

Well, I totally respect that; I think I might have grown so used to seeing rape in yaoi that I didn't occur to me to label this case as 'rape'. Now that I think about it, you're right; he was raped, which is by no means okay. The way the author depicted it, however, was so ambiguous and fetishised that it simply didn't occur to me. I've noticed that mangakas tend to fetishise ukes getting raped by their (future) partners - when it's a guy they won't end up with, in the end, the fact that it is, in fact, nonconsensual seems to be more emphasised - I can barely stand reading that. Well, I might have been rambling too much but I've come to realise that you were right about it being rape - fetishised rape, nonetheless. (￣∇￣")

Thank you for this wonderful debate. I've had similar conversations for this manga and none have replied in such a courteous manner as you did which I really appreciate. I was preparing for a fight when I clicked on this reply but I was pleasantly surprised by your calm response. Also, thank you for seeing this side of things and not jumping out in indignation. I respect that (๑•ㅂ•)و✧

You're welcome! Thanks for making me realise something important! (≧∀≦) I've had my fair share of internet arguments but, in the end, I'd rather stay calm and open to changing my perspective on things instead of staying stubborn by clinging to whatever belief I've had at some point. But this conversation has really shocked me! I can't believe I didn't realise it was rape, initially.┗( T﹏T )┛

I find what you wrote both interesting and well said but I stand but what I first wrote. I don’t feel this is rape. It’s aggressive but not violent. I am however a bit upset about how you took my opinion about a fictional work and applied it to the real world. At no point did i write “that he looked like he enjoyed it” as an reason to validate my opinion. I also don’t think rape is ok and I feel that only a victim can tell you if they were raped and no one should disregard them. I wouldn’t apply this opinion to an actual case and if anything I’m saddened by rape and frustrated for the victims in rape cases. I know the person I’m talking to carries a trauma that I can do little to make better. I’m the kind of person who wants everyone to smile. When people have something that makes them sad and I can do nothing to fix it, it can be heartbreaking for me. Please don’t assume I’m ignorant or unfeeling based on one opinion of a fictional work.

I completely understand; we're all entitled to our opinions. When it comes to rape in yaoi manga, the lines are often blurred. it is a work of fiction and, thus, the rules of the real world don't exactly apply - I absolutely agree with you on that. I never assumed you were an unfeeling person; I think you seem like an honest, considerate and wonderful person. <3 as I've previously stated in this thread, I've grown so used to seeing rape in yaoi manga that I hardly ever take the time to consider whether the sexual acts between the characters are consensual or not. The reason why we're even discussing this is due to the ambiguous nature of the yaoi narrative and the fact that yaoi mainly emphasises the pleasure aspects of the sexual acts - not whether a sexual act is okay or not from a moral perspective. I wish you both a Merry Christmas and a happy New Year, by the way! ^^