debate

i definitely agree that its sexualization in the examples you gave but i feel like its healthy to read about every relationship and to not put yaoi on a pedestal-- also not to fetishize or make real gay people or anybody irl uncomfortable by pushing yaoi type standards on them. as long as youre healthy with keeping fiction from reality i find no harm in reading bl yaoi or gl yuri or any type of relationship :D

most yaoi mangas do fetishize gay men. People who argue that yAOi iS gAy rEprEsEntAtiON are the dumbest. Tell me, how is 'seme rapes uke but uke loves seme' representation of gay men.

thats because yaoi began by female authors for a female audience (allegedly) in response to hetero stories. so this means that yaoi wasnt made for the lgbtqai+ (a lot of people in japan think being lgbtqai+ is a phase or a fetish youll grow out of) but to replace shoujo and other genres featuring straight couples. this is a reason why yaoi has a uke/bottom/neko and seme/top system, and that the bottom is way more feminine/looks like a girl compared to the manly, tall top. yaoi has become better at including lgbtqai+ men in their audience and there are more male bl authors now. but you can still see how the way the genre started has heavily impacted the later works. if you want to find stories that are for lgbtqai+ men then theres bara (dont really know much about the genre since i dont read it). yuri is also a thing but its wayyy smaller compared to the yaoi community

this is what happens after like an hour of research on the topic lol

i don't entirely disagree, but:
1) people need to stop having unrealistic expectations for funny fictional porn that was never meant to be accurate representation to begin with.
2) rape and pedophilia are issues not exclusive to bl, and fetishization of gay men is not the primal source of those.
3) you would be surprised how much filth there is in bara. so refrain from talking about something you know nothing of, let alone recommending it as a more authentic source.
3) isn't it ironic how 99% of the time complaints about fetishization come from none other than straight cis fangirls, who decide they must speak on behalf of the opressed after reading some comics? you guys don't even seem to notice that you're actually the ones infantilizing and patronizing gay men while knowing next to nothing and not really sympathising with irl problems faced by lgbt community (which bl manga is hardly one of them).

4* lol

1) wtf is with you and accusing me of homophobic shit? i go to class with homophobic, racist ass classmates that wouldnt think twice of calling me the f slur, n slur, and even beat my ass up. do you not know how fucking scared i am to come out to my parents. you dont even fucking know me. i never tried to speak for the lgbtqai+ community (im a part of the community...) i just wqnted to share my thoughts about how yaoi has negative tropes that isnt savory even if its not meant to represent the community. i mean when has [TW] r@p3 and sexual assault not okay to talk about if your straight but ok if your lgbtqai+? also dont assume my sexuality or my gender especially if youre going to talk about lgbtqai+ matters, thats just hypocritical. i am a bi, cisgender female, thank you very much for asking :). ive already replied to another person with a claim and reasoning similar to your first point read that before you try to attack me. tldr;pretty much said that yaoi is made for women by women and wasnt meant for the lgbtqai+ community. i specifically wanted to criticize about the yaoi [TW] r@p3 trope that i know other communities have a problem with that trope too *cough* *cough* hentai *cough* *cough*, i mean im not a dumbass. i didnt even really talk about bara much (like one sentence?) i just said that from what ive heard/read bara is for gay men by gay men (one of the sources actually reads bara if that really matters) and yes even bara would have its filth too not every community is perfect.

wanted* :)

The fact that most yaoi is gay porn that is basically made to cater female audience is enough proof that these are fetishizing works.From one bl fan to another mind giving me some recs?

Really? 99% of times I hear these complaints are from mlm people. I have this whole list where I pointed out these problematic things in popular bl and most of the replies I got were from mlm people and how uncomfortable yaoi makes them. And if mlm people don’t seek representation in mangas then where? Yaoi is just explicit bl right? Then why has this been treated like porn without plot made for non mlm people specially cis straight girls ? It’s like you are admitting that this genre is indeed fetishizing. While rape and pedophilia isn’t exclusive to this genre, it’s more than ever glorified and normalized in this genre.

That moment when your a straight guy and think your safe-