yesh (๑•ㅂ•)و✧
wow okay so you definitely made me realize how I feel now about Taku. Before, I was on Taku's side more than joowon's. I also never could really tell if he genuinely had feelings for haesoo as time went on or he just liked using him because he knew haesoo loved Joowon and wanted someone to depend on him. I was always on and off with thinking Taku is a good/bad guy because one second he seems manipulative the other he seems nice. I did feel sad for him and wanted him to deserve better, but not now after realizing how shitty he treated haesoo. as well as Taku expected this to happen and said haesoo could use him so. as for Joowon we can all see that he has had a LOT of character development. but I do think he genuinely was very shitting and aggressive towards haesoo as well. I just didn't want them to be together because of the whole "past step-brothers" thing. don't get me started on haesoo's character lmao. but in the end I just wanted all of them to move on and grow from their past and find happiness but I mean Joowon and haesoo were going to end up together no matter what.
I'm glad I could solidify your perspective a bit! I think it's easy to go back and forth between thinking taku is sweet vs manipulative, because his flaws arent quite "in your face" like joowon's aggression is in the first half of the story?? his manipulative thoughts and monologues are wrapped in pretty words and gentle actions, so its very easy for it go over ppl's heads yknow?
I think being turned off by joohae's past is valid... it's something engrained in our society though the perception of the taboo varies by culture. I personally dont have a problem with it because of the age they met each other. knowing they were strangers who met as teens (16, almost adults) and not young or impressionable enough to actually see each other as siblings just because their parents told them so... made sense to me on some level. anywayyy that aside, i believe both joowon and haesoo were shitty to each other. haesoo was emotionally manipulative towards joowon trying to make him jealous or angry, and joowon always took his bait and was too aggressive + became arrogant. with these two, I wanted them to fix their ways and I could sympathize with them because I felt their problematic relationship was less due to their inherent personalities, but their circumstances and external pressures that shaped their actions/emotions. i talk about the developments n flaws of all 3 characters in here if you want to take a look lol: http://www.mangago.me/home/mangatopic/9496997/
hello! ok sooo this isn't really related to your post (great analysis btw!) but i feel like you've read a lot with a similar genre. is there any more stories like this that you could recommend?? romance manga/manhwas with interesting and layered characters and angsty (?) well-written plot. i personally enjoyed reading their monologues and analyzing their thought process. i tried searching under josei tags but i just can't find any (/TДT)/
thank you! and honestly i genuinely dont know hahha T A T I do like my angst, but i've never read another story quite like Love or Hate? I feel like no story spends as much time going into the psyche and mentality of characters, as much as LOH does lol. Among BL... I say the closest might be Lover Boy, or Raising a bat? The main character of both those stories has a lot of flaws and well characterized with good depth. And both are very angsty.
errr correction: no ROMANCE goes that far into the psyche and mentality of characters like LOH does. there are definitely psychological thrillers, but those tend to be extremely messed up and dark on a whole other kind of level, rather than what loh delivered. the characters of LOH are more or less just regular ppl with flaws at the end of the day
Copy and pasting this to literally everybody
Yeah yeah!! This is how to describe it perfectly!! People got so caught up on stepbrothers taboo and ships that they missed the story narrative. It's so sad when all people could talk about was how toxic the relationship between Joowon and Haesoo is but couldn't see their growth and still clutching onto that "toxic relationship, author made tushed ending,,,etc." ┗( T﹏T )┛
i wasn't initially sure how to describe what i was looking for but this sums it up perfectly!! miss maam how r u so good with words,, and yeah sadly, you're right ┗( T﹏T )┛another story that i could think of is prolly scum's wish but im not really a fan of its characters. anyway lover boy and raising a bat look interesting,, will check them out hehe tysm!!
haha thank you~ perhaps its cause i'm a literary/psychology major? idk if that has to do with anything but I'm sure it contributes to something lol
OMG I THOUGHT OF SCUM'S WISH TOO. But I didn't type it cause it ends kinda sad lmaooo
This was marvelously written and expressed. You literally wrote everything that showed how toxic taku was, wish all those immature readers would read this and be a little educated about their 'Baby, best boy/seme,sweet' Taku XD
Honestly they can love him as much as they want... but lets not completely twist his character and make him into something he’s not. We gotta acknowledge these points about him which is very overlooked by readers.
I'm a taku Stan but i totally agree. Thanks for making me realize that but i still wish he would find happiness tho
I'm glad you understand! I simply wish we got to see him owning up to his shit more, like the way Joowon especially did (and Haesoo)
Still, its good that he seems to in a happy and healthy relationship post timeskip, meaning he did probably change for the better through his heartbreak with haesoo
Thank goodness other people noticed. I was like this guy doesn’t really care about you he just wants to make himself feel better, haesoo pls
ooh you really went hard here. this is something that really needed to be pointed out~
I completely agree ! Thanks for taking your time to write this (づ￣ ³￣)づ
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yeah exactly. that was my full sense of taku majority of this story too
more ppl SHOULD notice, like seriously lol. there's so much dialogue around it
I was a taku stan at the start but then started to notice his unusual behaviors by being manipulative and guilt-tripping haesoo into having a relationship with him.He has faults that I pray he'll own up to and I hope for his own happiness.People have been blinded bcs some have been normalizing toxicity and manipulation on some relationships which led them to think taku was somewhat normal, which he isn't.I rly hope he would've gotten a bigger character development tho he did a little bit but ye it wasn't really enough to justify anything he's ever done.And thank you for the explanation bcs you have opened my eyes and made me aware of other kinds of manipulations by giving examples. Thank you and I hope you have a good day :)
I honestly can appreciate Taku as a fictional character because I do find him interesting and layered. But I am TIRED of ppl claiming he was incredibly sincere and cared about Haesoo so much. Idk if some of y’all skipped these parts, or chose to ignore it... but pls do see the following examples of Taku's manipulative and selfish behavior, and taking advantage of Haesoo:
Exhibit 1 - He wanted to use his sex tape to guilt trip Haesoo in their relationship. He said: “I hoped that guilt would bring you to me”. It only didn't happen cause Haesoo turned down publishing the sex tape. It was not that Taku backed away and stopped himself because he realized how fcked up his actions were. It made Haesoo uncomfortable and weirded out too,, pretty sure this can count as sexual/workplace harassment lmao
Exhibit 2 - In chapter 96’s flashback Taku says "i just want to read the story he writes about me when i'm gone” (his friend calls him an asshole too lol). This is a throwback to Leo telling Joowon over the phone about how Taku uses his models for his work, and then tosses them aside with little regard. He was planning the same with Haesoo, until he later got “attached”. that’s karma ig~
Exhibit 3 - Haesoo expressed that he was unsure/not ready for a relationship. Yet literally RIGHT AFTER his quasi breakup with Joowon, Taku is pressuring him like, "I'm still waiting for an answer". It's weird cause Haesoo's wounds are fresh from his breakup, and Taku is NOT stupid. He knew this and persisted. Haesoo shouldn't have agreed and that's his own fault (HS is not entirely a victim here lets make that clear). Meanwhile Taku? He was flat out taking advantage of Haesoo's broken emotions.
Exhibit 4 - Quote: “It must have been painful for him no doubt, but I still wanted to see more". This was Taku's thought during a photoshoot with Haesoo, which later made Haesoo cry at the exhibition (Chapter 92/93). Taku told Haesoo: "think about having sex with someone you love, but you can never see them again". This was RIGHT AFTER Joowon and Haesoo's big separation. To inflict emotional pain in your partner, and then say you were interested in seeing more? Bruh no… just no.
Exhibit 5 - Quotes: “Every time I saw how sad you were, it felt good.” “You were lonely. You need me because of your unhappiness.” —Chapter 58. This is from Taku's monologue of how Haesoo’s unhappiness made him feel good, because he felt depended on by Haesoo for comfort // hs get away from this man pls haha
Exhibit 6 - Another quote: “If I can’t beat him [jw] one-on-one, then I at least want you [hs] to feel bad” —Chapter 66 ...Can Taku stop wishing for Haesoo depression, like he's already sad jfc
Exhibit 7 - "I want to bury inside the void he [jw] left in you. And later I'll push him aside however I can." ...honestly this quote struck me as Taku taking advantage of Haesoo's heartbreak and being hella 'opportunistic' (btw: Taku called HIMSELF that in his interview in chapter 5 so I mean... lol). Maybe that's just me though idk.
Exhibit 8 - In Chapter 84 when Joowon's scandal broke out, notice how Taku starts texting "are you okay?" to Haesoo, then deletes it and instead tells him to stop caring about Joowon? This moment said a lot to me, because it's the fact that Taku is SO AWARE of how Haesoo must be feeling, but he purposely chooses to ignore that and cares more about winning and keeping him away from Joowon. Kinda struck me as the opposite from Joowon's phone call after Haesoo's modelling news dropped in chapter 68. JW asked Haesoo to not do the exhibition because he knew its not what HS wanted (he is right: haesoo always wanted to be known for his writing not his face, and felt crappy abt it all day). But when Haesoo said he was fine, JW told him he'll always be on Haesoo's side even as a hyung/friend. He made it so clear how he cares the most about HS simply being okay, even after Haesoo left him.
Exhibit 9 - Taku tells Haesoo he hopes he has a hard time with Joowon after their breakup (Chapter 99). It felt wrong to me cause Haesoo genuinely apologized and gently let him down in their breakup... but Taku tries to make Haesoo feel worse. I honestly understand being spiteful towards exes who mistreated you in some way. HOWEVER with this relationship: it seemed to highlight Taku’s selfishness. Taku is out here acting like Haesoo wronged him for simply not liking him back in a 1 month TRIAL relationship. As if he wasnt the one who initiated and *insisted* on their relationship. As if he was unaware of Haesoo’s feelings for Joowon. As if Taku didnt say it was better that they use each other. Him wanting to make Haesoo feel bad over this is wild considering all the conditions of their relationship and his past manipulation too.
((Also, Taku in this scene to Haesoo: “Sorry I told you I'm not a good person” … Like sir, if you know you’re not a good person, THEN FIX IT. Joowon spent almost 40 chapters self-reflecting n trying to correct the mistakes he made, when he never *intentionally* wanted to hurt Haesoo lol. Meanwhile some Taku fans: “omg he’s a good person that was wronged. haesoo never deserved him!” lmaooo))
///end of examples
Anyway I’m gonna have to start sending this to some of y’all who selectively read Taku’s character to all hell. He was really manipulative with Haesoo and had some bad intentions. And when Taku grew to stop being a robot and showed “real feelings” getting all attached to Haesoo and liking him more than he expected, he was STILL selfish and wanted Haesoo to suffer for him. He didn’t get enough development to stray away from that, but imo that’s exactly why he’s the second lead
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