yaoimazing

YOU. I LIKE YOU. YOU'RE COOL.

Finally! I'm not alone, because I see things really similar to you! Specially the ending of your comment, they have move on, together. But yeah, agree so agree with you! And I'm not alone!!!! ヾ(☆▽☆)

how sad people didn't pay enough attention for the series, if they did, it would be easy to tell they're deeply in love with each other :'(

Glad to know i'm sharing the same thoughts with you!

Exactly but it's okay XD. I mean we all have our own interpretations and it just so happen that we see a certain part of the story that says 'hey we're really in love but we're just having too much trouble right now'.

uke did invite the seme to have sex with him, indeed. but then he was hurt and scared and begged him to stop. he clearly didn't want it anymore(not to mention passing out and hospital admittance, he must've been teared and bleeding). and in sex, consent is everything. try imagine yourself or a person precious to you in uke's place. you don't want to be in this situation, believe me. people have a right to change their mind, it's ok, really. and you _have_ to listen to them. if you are not a rapist.
but if you still don't get it, maybe you should think about it like about making people a cup of tea. there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGoWLWS4-kU

Thanks for this... This is how I saw it from the beginning, I just couldn't figure how to say it.

Hi there! Idk if you're gonna read this but.. Yes I got your point. And you were right when you said that I wouldn't want to be in that situation. However, there is something that I want to explain to the other readers and somehow, prove wrong. I see a lot of comments that says, "THE SEME IS AN ASSHOLE". Oh dear he was and I couldn't argue with that BUT ONLY in that situation where he couldn't stop himself from doing his business. It kind of bothered me that some failed to see that he was actually trying to fix things and people already judged him and thought, he does not deserve the uke or anything at all. I know that we all have different ways of understanding the story but these are my sentiments.

First, (i'm repeating this one again sorry) the uke was the one who initiated the sex - giving the seme his consent to be touched. He did not, however, expect it to be so painful he even passed out (as we all know). He begged the seme to stop, but the seme did not, COULD not (Rape as you may call it). And it was haunting the seme for years, hence the reason why he was still looking after the uke till that day, probably finding a way to 'restore' their relationship or ask forgiveness. I am NOT blaming the uke if that's what your thinking. The reason why I mentioned this whole consent thing is because it is relevant to the story and majority of the readers are blaming it all to the seme. I am not saying the seme is an innocent soul either. No way. He was wrong. Sooo wrong. And the character knew that. He was an asshole, but that was once, and long ago.

Second, the reason why the uke loathed the seme so much wasn't because he was forced (he did hate the act tho cause it was painful as f*ck) - rather, it was due to the fact that after what they did, while he was left all alone and his parents treated him differently etc. The seme whom he loved so much left and ran away. http://www.mangago.me/read-manga/12_ji_kara_hajimaru/mi/1a994be7ad960f75abe36898583123f7_chapter-6/13/

Third, the uke did hate how painful the experience was (the reason why he said he did not want to be f*cked in the as*) But I find the reason due to the unpleasant feeling alone and not because of the person who caused it. http://www.mangago.me/read-manga/12_ji_kara_hajimaru/mi/1a994be7ad960f75abe36898583123f7_chapter-6/14/ The uke said so himself, whether it was 12 years ago or that moment, he was still the one who was reaching out to seduce the seme.

Sakyo Aya, I suppose, would not make a character so stupid to chase after a rapist. that's an old school yaoi manga lol. We've gone past that. This, my friend, is real romance. Only that they had their own issues, misinterpretations of the situation, and endless drama. But what they held was a second chance. And that's what I like about this story. I'm not trying to go against your understanding. Heck I believe your explanation is more logical in ways but if you did read this (because there are reasons why you wouldn't) thank you for vocalizing your thoughts.

Thank you! XD

if you cause someone severe trauma, such as rape for example, chasing after them isn't abot fixing it for them. seeing cause of their trauma, victims tend to get much worse psychologically. they start to have more panic attacks and bad nightmare cases then before, have a bouts of insomnia, mental breakdowns, become even more sociophobic and isolated. so no, in real life it doesn't help, quite the opposite. stalking someone who has a trigger thanks to you is all about feeling better for yourself about bad thing that you've done. not about someone who needs to not to relive traumatic past thanks to your appearence. it causes them psychological and even physical damage all over again. but that is a common story in my last victim support center, sadly enough. they think that they "love them", but in fact make them suffer. that often leeds to suicide or even murder or suspicious disappearences cases. stalkers are like that. not a joke. definitely not love.

Apologies if I'm being intruder in this discussion, it just that your comment is pretty serious and it must be hard deal every day with situations like that (and kind of frustrating when there's sometimes no way to help the victims). However, this is fiction and more importantly, Sakyo didn't bring to the plot that serious case of psychological trauma or damage in Yuu, on the contrary he found his way to move on because at the end what happened was product of inexpertise, stupidity and lack of communication as very well explained yaoimazing. And his reaction after 12 years and that horrid sexual experience (more like "I'm mad because how is possible that after all this time I still love you... Douchebag, you leave me!")is for me, clear that in no way Sakyo intended to make this story complicated in the way you're exposing real cases.

Hi! In real life, yes it wouldn't. Not gonna argue with that. I know because I've encountered people who have experienced worse traumatic incidents. They never got over it, and even if they were, I knew that it didn't mean they were 'cured' or yes, 'fixed'. I know that chasing after nightmares and fixing it wouldn't be as simple as that. I see you're trying to apply psychological concepts on this manga. That's your way of interpreting it. Not mine, or theirs or anyone else's, but yours. But this is my own way of seeing it. I know my profession requires me to actually thoroughly think this situation through. Rape isn't a case to be ignored. I know that. But in the eyes of the manga artist, without applying any psychological concept as I see, the story is much less complicated than how it should have been. I see that there were instances were the uke's past triggered something to his present. But the artist decided to stick with his/her own idea. And I too, will only be giving my views while basing it off the way she sees it and the way she made it. I know a lot of cases and all. I've heard and seen a lot believe me. I could probably give you my deeper thoughts for this one while relating it to what i've learned through the years as what you did. But as I said, my explanation and interpretation is solely based on what i've read. This story is not realistic to most. Not even to me. Its case does mirror lives of normal people in the normal world but not the way the story went and ended. I choose to view this as fiction, where stories end in a questionable manner.

To be honest, i believe the seme is more mentally disturbed given that all these years he'd been looking after the uke on his own (and quietly watching from afar) and that bothers me IF in real life. But i'll leave it at that. Since you mentioned love. I'd say this. I used the term 'love' because the artist/author turned the character into a person who is capable of protecting and waiting (given that that he lacked in this area at the beginning of the story) for his significant other. That is actually a quality of a person who loves and loves for real. Again, my interpretation is based on the way it was made and how it turned. But thank you for your awesome thoughts. And don't worry, I get you and I see where you're coming from :)

Hi! Thank you so much! These are my thoughts exactly, and well in my previous comment. But then again we all see it differently so let's just enjoy reading the story and be thankful that we even have one :)

I do realize it's a fiction, but when it deals with sugarcoating really bad thigs as rape and stalkering, I don' think I ever could say "whoa, calm down, it's just a fiction". might be a déformation professionnelle, but I think when books, movies, mangas and such are rape apologetic or portray other bad things as something sweet or just ok, it affects readers/watchers, underage even more so. and not in a good way. see, mangaka developed things starting from rape scene(chronologically) in a way kind of detached from real life. uke actually didn't mind to be raped, he was just physicaly hurt, and pouted about seme leaving him and still loved him for all 12 years? don't think so. trauma is a trauma. I can belive in ufos, but in normal love and not some kind of stockholm syndrome under this circumstances? I just can't. it can't work this way in real life, and as conserned and involved person I don't like when fiction says it can. if you ever heard word "Beethoven" from Hollywood's movie only, you'd start to believe it's a dog's name. we are all affected by thins we watch and read.

No need to thank me! You explain yourself so well and I'm very pleased to see that some people is giving to this the story the credit and review that it deserves in the concept of yes, this is fiction and regarding with that the plot works! And also, you're right, we must enjoy reading and be thankful, specially if it's Sakyo! But this is my very subjective me since she's my absolute fav haha! Thanks again for your amazing comment and reply ヾ(☆▽☆)

And so did you! I was reading your reply and I was like 'damn! this person and I share the same thoughts' XD Especially with it being a pure fiction and etc. And I feel embarrassed when you said 'review'. loool. Really, I hope we get to talk more in the future! XD

Well that's your very personal opinion and your own interpretation of this story and that's a thing that deserves respect as well other's opinions that might differ with yours. Probably as a person that has been involve with victims of rape/nonconsent is natural to reject this kind of stories, but (and probably you've read this before) 90% of yaoi mangas is based in plots with rape/nonconsent. I've seen comments in other stories (some of them very popular) and with worst situations like the one in this manga and people enjoy those stories, some of them saying "hot, cute, romantic" but I think that what's more enjoyable is the fact that it's fiction and I do want to believe that the majority will also agree that it's totally debatable if we were talking about real life, specially if there are affected people involved.

I don't know how seriously people can take a work of fiction as something to apply in RL. How many people had die because they wanted to be Superman? How many victims of rape/nonconsent really thought that "hidoku shinaide" is the epitome of a relationship? (Please forgive me I'm not being sarcastic or anything, I'm trying to make a point)

Oh God, you guys got it all wrong, how ridiculous that you spent time to read a manga but you couln't feel anything.

For most part, you said that Haneda ( the seme ) is a ass hole because in the chapter.6 the Yuu wanted to stop in the middle but Haneda didn't stop and that made him an ass-hole ?

Yuu was the one who wanted to be touched, he was in tears remembering the feeling he got when Haneda touched his hair and he admitted that for more 12 years, he hadn't been able to forget Haneda even once. More than the pain or anything he just wanted Haneda to touch him, get it?
And I dare say when he told Haneda to stop haft way, he didn't actually mean to stop.

I agree! Well said!

I'm sorry, I wouldn't mind the seme as much if he was actually APOLOGETIC as before. But the seme inner thoughts speak a different story.

He didn't look apologetic when he saw that Yuu was trembling. He said after that he wanted to see Yuu in tears and in fear. He didn't even say the words "I'm sorry."

He raped Yuu and yes he did because he did not stop. Such that Yuu had to be hospitalised. Had to be admitted and STAY in the hospital because how bad it is. The only way the seme can't be considered a rapist is if Yuu did not tell him to stop. But he did. Multiple times. And when he saw him again, did he apologise? No, he did what every other rapist would do. "You made me fall into the trap. Then YOU ran away." Even years down the road, he still believes it's Yuu's fault. Saying you can't stop is ridiculous and is not an excuse. It's not your body you are hurting, it's someone else's. When someone says stop, you stop. And if you don't have the bloody decency to apologise.

His thoughts of Yuu are more of a stalker than a lover. He actually wondered if Yuu was still hurting and it was not in a way that was apologetic. It was in a way that was 'I hope he still remembers me and that horrible moment.' Look at his facial expression, not once is he apologetic.

Do not tell people to read in eyes of the author. Because that's not what reading is about. You read from your perspective. You decide if the message the author is sending is wrong or right. You treat the author as dead and understand the story with god given brain and common sense.

He wanted to forget. He should have wanted to repent. But how easy it is huh for the rapist to want to forget. 'These painful memories do leave me once in a while.' How wonderful that everytime the uke wants to have sex or touched, he trembles but the seme gets to forget once in awhile.

http://www.mangago.me/read-manga/12_ji_kara_hajimaru/mi/manga/12_ji_kara_hajimaru/c004/pg-4/

Yes, he was really apologetic and learned his lesson.

http://www.mangago.me/read-manga/12_ji_kara_hajimaru/mi/manga/12_ji_kara_hajimaru/c004/pg-10/
http://www.mangago.me/read-manga/12_ji_kara_hajimaru/mi/manga/12_ji_kara_hajimaru/c004/pg-11/

Only when he realises that the uke hasn't had sex IN YEARS did he stop. Not when the uke use his mouth to say yes LIKE THE LAST TIME HE RAPED YUU.

http://www.mangago.me/read-manga/12_ji_kara_hajimaru/mi/manga/12_ji_kara_hajimaru/c004/pg-14/

^^^ oh look victim blaming.

Yes you did the same thing last time! You seduced me and wanted me to stop having sex with you when YOU were in so much pain. Look, you're doing the same thing now. *sarcasm

http://www.mangago.me/read-manga/12_ji_kara_hajimaru/mi/manga/12_ji_kara_hajimaru/c004/pg-15/

Pointing fingers at him? Oh you mean you, the rapist?

http://www.mangago.me/read-manga/12_ji_kara_hajimaru/mi/manga/12_ji_kara_hajimaru/c004/pg-17/

How can I 'violate you' DO I need to say more. What romantic words of love. I wish a man/woman would say that to me one day. NOT.

http://www.mangago.me/read-manga/12_ji_kara_hajimaru/mi/manga/12_ji_kara_hajimaru/c004/pg-22/

Please go on.

http://www.mangago.me/read-manga/12_ji_kara_hajimaru/mi/manga/12_ji_kara_hajimaru/c004/pg-27/

Yes... Please go back to the time that I said it was your fault and you seduced me and cry even more.

Oh look
http://www.mangago.me/read-manga/12_ji_kara_hajimaru/mi/1a994be7ad960f75abe36898583123f7_chapter-5/19/

Suddenly he says he is wrong again ONE CHAPTER later.

You know who else 'changes' their mind to pacify their victims? Don't need to spell it out for you.

From this, it's obvious he hasn't actually been repenting for what he did. Only when he sees that Yuu was a 'virgin' after so long that he realised. Even then he almost raped Yuu again. Not only that he victim blamed yuu once again. Sorry, the seme has no redeeming from the author.in this series.

http://www.mangago.me/read-manga/12_ji_kara_hajimaru/mi/1a994be7ad960f75abe36898583123f7_chapter-6/27/

Oh look. He certainly learned his lesson in the end! Not.

Hi! I was not able to give you a proper reply since it took more than a month for me to open this acct and find out that you've written back. Darling, it seems to me that we are not in the same page with regards to this whole argument but I honestly appreciate how you made time to write back and even give attention to this topic. I mean, most people would've just ignored this.

First and foremost, I would like to point out that I did NOT tell anyone to read in the eyes of the author. You must have misunderstood. I know that when we read, we have our very own subjective reality when analysing how the stories progress. We have our ways of interpreting it just like how you have yours and how I have mine. What I did say however, is that despite the fact that I do have my own interpretations, I also considered how it was written/drawn by the author. Honey I agree when you said "you read from your perspective". But I don't just do that. This work is afterall, made by someone else. What could have they been thinking when they wrote this? What did they want the readers to understand? I don't just stick with what I believe and what I've learned, I try to understand their thoughts. Just like what I do with you now. You see there are many sides to every stories. I hope you know that.

But anyway, I don't know but I'm not taking sides with your 'rapist in mind'. Nor do I agree that raping someone is right. I'm not defending any of these characters if that's what you're thinking. The characters has their each and very own faults. That's the reason why I started this topic. I made points about their faults, explained why I think things turned out that way (as how I've read it), and gave impressions on the main characters. That's what I did. But it seems to me that that too, unfortunately, had been misunderstood. Oh well, we read from our own perspective anyways.

If I have anything more to say, I've already written them in my previous replies. It's hard to explain, really. But yeah, thanks again for expressing your thoughts. Good luck :)