KyaChan's Topics (27)

It must be exhaaaausting to be new to the manga scene these days. I’ve been reading for as long as you so things like this doesn’t even pop up on my radar? I think because I learned from the start these stories weren’t real that I’ve been able to read the crazy stuff that used to come out in the 90s.

But then I read comments like the others here and realize they have to go through a whooole morality checklist to make sure it’s okay to read and, if it isn’t, make sure everyone knows they can’t read it because they have the moral high ground.

I agree with you.
very veryyyy much. T_T

Omggg a fellow oldieeee yesss , THIS!!! I think that’s one of the biggest differences between people like us (old old timers before we could read online) been in the manga/BL space for years and people who are newer to it. Once you’ve been around long enough, you learn pretty quickly that fiction is fiction.

I appreciate the way you put it because some of the newer discourse makes it seem like you need to complete a whole moral background check before you’re allowed to enjoy a fictional relationship back in the day we TOOK whatever we could get haha

And honestly, some of the older manga/novels could be WILD, so I can definitely understand why you’re saying none of this even registers on your radar anymore LOL. I think people sometimes forget that BL/yaoi has always had stories that pushed boundaries. You don’t have to like every trope, but acting like everyone else needs to justify why they’re reading something you personally dislike gets exhausting. (〜￣△￣)〜

Literally I’ve seen worse and I started back in like 2014/2015 or smth

so cuz it’s “yaoi” you get to excuse these problematic tropes? I get you’re a veteran but this complacent attitude is honestly disgusting and that’s why we keep getting works like this

blaming readers for “why we keep getting works like this” is a little ridiculous. Authors are allowed to write uncomfortable, messy, toxic, or morally questionable stories. You not liking a trope doesn’t mean everyone else has to treat its existence as some kind of moral failure. All of you serious need to grow up. The world isn’t rainbows and sunshine. You’re not gonna like some things. You have the right to your opinion YES. But you will not tell people what they CAN and CANNOT write because you are uncomfortable and because YOU don’t like it.

And thats not what I said at all. There’s a pretty big difference between saying “this trope is problematic and I personally hate it” and saying “this trope should never exist in fiction.” I’m not excusing anything just because it’s yaoi—I’m saying I understand what genre I’m reading and I’m not going to clutch my pearls every time a fictional story contains something morally questionable. You find it disgusting and sick? That’s fine. Again YOU do not get to tell people what to write. Be upset about it, keep writing your comments that’s your right as human being.

I’m just as much of an enjoyer of “toxic” romance as everyone else but ofc not every romance is gonna be picturesque and healthy and full of green flags. blaming the reader was a little out of line for me, but this market wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for readers consuming it. that’s just fact. if u like pedo MLs, good for u ╮(￣▽￣)╭

yeah it’s your right to have an opinion too im not trying to say problematic works shouldn’t ever exist. but you do have to acknowledge the problem. what im trying to say is that this itself is a flaw in the BL genre, or just romance in general. u may find complaints about the pedophilia repetitive, but i don’t think it should just not be addressed. it just sounds like you’re trying to normalize pedophilic tropes in BL, when it shouldn’t be

I think we can acknowledge that a trope is problematic, criticize it, and still understand why people enjoy reading it without making it a reflection of their morals as a person. Fiction can be messy as hell and still just be fiction. As a fellow Yaoi reader as you said and you enjoy “toxic” romance I’m sure you’ve read and enjoyed some highly questionable ones but that doesn’t mean you agree with it in reality right? Don’t assume what people like to read is who they are as a person.

well yea ofc i have bc these tropes r pretty much unavoidable in the genre. we def can separate fiction from reality, but i do have personal boundaries. the story here isn’t well written and the ML lusting over a 13 year old is just the icing on the cake. i personally can’t ever see the ML in a good light knowing that fact, but i suppose we r fundamentally different people :p

And I agree, it is gross to lust over a kid. ML is a sicko and should be neutered.
I’m also most definitely not trying to say pedophilic tropes should be normalized or that they shouldn’t be criticized. I actually agree that problematic themes can and should be called out. My point was more that I don’t think the existence of those tropes automatically means people who read or enjoy the work are supporting those things in real life. (They should all be killed and i will continue to think this way until i die)

I also wasn’t saying people should just stop talking about it because the criticism is repetitive. I just meant that sometimes the same discussion gets brought up so often that it can feel like people are judging the readers rather than actually discussing the work itself. I think there’s room for both: enjoying fiction for what it is while still acknowledging when certain tropes are genuinely disturbing or problematic. I just wish we can all come together as Yaoi lovers and respect one another then starting problems. We can all agree that a lot of what we read is sick and no way shape or form does that reflect us as a person.

oh for sure, saying everyone who reads problematic romances are despicable and should die is an extreme. i want to clarify earlier when i said i was “disgusted,” it was more so about the complacent attitude that a lot of people have about these pedophilic tropes and the habit of dismissing the issue simply because it’s fiction, not a reflection of your moral character. looks like i misinterpreted your point to be that initially, and i apologize for twisting your argument,

there definitely should be changes made in the conversation to frame the work as the center of discussion, and not blame the readers for participating in said media. a middle ground should exist ideally. and yes, I do agree that what we read doesn’t say who we are as people. it’s how we interact with the material and discuss it, that shows our actual character.

the community is getting a lot bigger, so it would help for us not to be so divisive ^^

I totally agree and after a time it is so exhausting to exist in fandoms like this.
Like I understand you don't like it. That is one thing. What I don't understand is why they can't let you or others live with it in peace.
I don't read or even understand why people want dark stuff either here in the yaoi sphere or dark romance in books. Do I go there and tell them, when I come into contact with one of those stories? No, I just scroll past.

Is that really that hard?

One of my early bl was okane ga nai and viewfinder so im not that sensitive to this themes as long as i know how to differentiate fiction from reality where it shouldn’t really happen but in fantasy, imma be like bring it on give me the worst as long as you make it entertaining

When you read stories, you need to really differentiate between fantasy and reality. Whats in here stays here. Things in reality stay in reality. If you keep mixing fantasy and reality, its better you dont read. Thats why I can still live normally eventough I already read so many things unimaginable manhwa, manga, manhua, novel, book and fanfiction. I read about incest manga, bara and many more and love the stories but doesnt mean I support any of that in reality. Thats why you need to differentiate and know the boundaries.

So true. My favorite shoujo was Kamisama kiss. Literally an imortal fox godlike man and a high schooler. I was pretty aware of the fictional reality of it all at the time and now. Let us be

What it means by saying because "it's yaoi"

There was a time where people in here knew their genres and checked in on themselves first before consuming anything further. Some would even say "are you sure? It's yaoi you know" Just like how you would check in on yourself if you can watch horror movies that has gore scenes, murder, blood etc. "it's horror, you know, can you handle it?"and choose whether to continue watching or simply walk away in the middle of it.

This is the same here. Just anything sexual.

"Can I read NSFW? with rape?pedophilia?incest?toxic manipulation? Anything morally degrading?" Which btw is why there is a subset yaoi = "no climax, no point, no meaning." Literally the right place but also not quite right to have these tropes. The same thing for yuri and hentai the difference is the intensity and censorship.

Perhaps because the YAOI/BL stuff has become broad in general that the definition of YAOI has been lost in a generation full of opinions. Those two used to have its own categories and different meanings but still works together, for me they still are different but sometimes people get confused and combine them as one.

BL has been popularized so much so that it even reaches out in a place where it shouldn't be, such as in Tikt*k. (Back then this used to be like a secret society for fujoshis & fudanshis, now there's a newer one called Fujins, but it's still the same we are all "rotten" at some parts) Maybe that's why there are newer audiences that are getting into this genre out of curiosity and popularity without addressing the pros and cons on what they are getting themselves into, as well as what the subset YAOI really is. The internet is free to let you search what is its true meaning.

Or perhaps because this site's interface is easier to leave a comment, unlike the m*m or other sites or maybe because bato got taken down that we now have newer audiences here. Perhaps there are uploads here that escaped at m*m. Still the question is "why are you here" in a site where you know the main dishes are yaoi? Where unusual media gets created. It is not to be dismissive but to remind that this is THAT place for this stuff. The difference is in the preferences.

So before reading another bl perhaps you could dive into learning the japanese culture first, or why author create such stories here in yaoi.

Some of us oldies, the subset YAOI is different from the newer ones definition of YAOI/Boys Love now.

To some of us, BL is a much tamer version of YAOI, yaoi is a subset of BL and under yaoi it was expected that it could contain HEAVY/TOXIC sexual stuff like fetishes, rape, pedophilia, manipulation, extreme possessive and obsessions, even pigs or much worse! It was just a matter of quickly closing and opening tabs. Now those stories are by no means should be normalized.

There even used to be a genre "shotacon" in this site to separate it from yaoi but disappeared that's why it got mixed into the "yaoi" category. (They should really bring that separator back.) This manga falls under that category.

Now having that category WAS NORMAL in the yaoi community — it falls under the right place for these type of stories, just like how it is normal to have bara, doujinshi, shounen ai in yaoi or a "lolicon" category in shoujo. Again CATEGORY! maybe you were looking for a BL or shounen ai story but found yourself stumbling here searching for a good story because honestly yeah the cover is clickbait for a fluffy BL story. That's marketing.

Boy's love back then and now was all about the cutesy, romance, overcoming homosexuality, society's view towards bl and has narrative progression and so much more. Moreover the yaoi subcategories are diverse, messy and overall complicated to navigate. In these you would need to prepare yourself for it has no plot, no specific meaning and no narrative climax — just pleasure. It was the saying "Yaoi can be BL but not all BL is Yaoi"

So pick your consumption to digest, you can leave a 1-5 star review of the food you ate, that's valid but just because the food you ate was disgusting doesn't mean you get to be a karen and shove it in the faces of others, we get it, it's gross. We will still eat it for curiosity's sake. That's why it is called rotten(Fujins) when you read BL.

Lauder pls.
that's why it's called 'fujoushi' or rotten girls/woman. or fudanshi means rotten boys.
We read it to enjoy story/what is inside, but as rotten as we are, we know the border-lines with reality. We know it FULL WELL it is not real and the writer also knew is just an imaginative story. (except it is written : based on story of abcd)
if the readers can't differentiate the line with reality, and then being a karen, it means the readers is more rotten than the fujoshi/fudanshi and needed clinical care.

what is your problem

What is your problem? Tf

OMFG YES

same ｡ﾟ(ﾟ´Д｀ﾟ)ﾟ｡ i thought i found some quality slop

SHOOT. I THOUGHT THE SAME. NOOOOO. Though, ty for the heads up.