Miki's Topics (177)

Brhh fr frヽ(`Д´)ﾉ

No worries bro, I’ll fix the problem. It won’t be there anymore in the next version.

Changing how you perceive a story based on the author cheating is not crazy, it shows your ability to change opinions and develop and is not fetishization. I am not perfect but I would not cheat on someone who loves me and would break up like a real adult.

Ok.

Sorry, I don’t see ur point. It is not fetishized it is not normal to cheat obviously. And the story goes “Until I met my husband” it talks about their love and how he comes to love his husband, not just how it goes the process of him being gay in this society. But it is contradictory now how we see the story of how the mc practically tells us his story the struggle he went to and the morals he chose to in the story and now knowing that he end up doing something he hated are so hypocrite. I just hoped that the choice he chose would have been worth it all than this story.

I love how you find excuses to feel justified in criticizing something that isn’t even part of the manga, but belongs to their private life. Wait for the next volume to criticize that part, when and if the author decides to talk about it.
And no, it’s not contradictory to what is told in the manga. An autobiographical work doesn’t suddenly become false because its author did something bad in their life (lmao, help).
And yes, there is a form of fetishization in idealizing a gay relationship to the point of considering that the slightest imperfection “ruins” your view of their story. As if two men had to be a perfect couple for their story to seem beautiful or legitimate to you. They’re human beings, not perfect characters who have to fit your fantasy. Disgusting.

Calling me disgusting doesn’t make your argument stronger, especially when you’re arguing against something I never actually said. I never demanded perfection or idealized “gay relationship”—you assumed that. I was talking about cheating itself. Cheating shouldn’t be normalized regardless of the kind of relationship.

My point is about the autobiographical nature of the work. The manga goes deeply into his experiences, his struggles with love and relationships, and the principles he develops throughout his life. So when I later encounter information about his real relationship that appears to contradict those principles, of course that can affect how I interpret the story. That doesn’t mean his past experiences were fake or that one action erases everything he went through. It means the new context changes how I see the person and, consequently, how I read his autobiography.

That isn’t fetishization, nor is it me expecting a gay relationship to be perfect. You’re free to separate the artist from the work, but that doesn’t mean everyone has to interpret an autobiographical work the same way you do. And telling me to “wait for the next volume” doesn’t invalidate my reaction to information that already exists outside the manga. I’m not claiming to know everything about their private life—I’m saying that, as a reader, the information I know now makes the story feel contradictory to me. You can disagree with that interpretation, but please argue against what I actually said rather than assigning a motive to me that I never expressed.

I think you’re still missing what I’m actually criticizing, and you’re contradicting yourself quite a lot, by the way. I never said that cheating was acceptable or that it should be ignored. What bothers me is that you’re letting something that belongs to his private life change your perception of his entire story, his struggles, his morals, and the person he was at that point in his life. You literally said yourself that it made the story feel contradictory and that you found his journey hypocritical.

The manga talks about what he experienced and felt up until he met his husband. The fact that he later did something he himself considers wrong doesn’t erase what he went through or make those experiences hypocritical. You can condemn the fact that he cheated on his husband without rewriting everything that happened before.

And that’s also why I brought up fetishization. I’m not saying, “You think cheating is wrong, therefore you fetishize gay relationships.” I’m talking about the fact that this is a real gay couple and that, because their relationship apparently didn’t end the way you expected after reading this story, it changes your entire perception of it. To me, that shows that you had a romanticized view of this gay couple through an autobiography. Now that you’ve learned that, in reality, their relationship ended because the author cheated on his husband, you consider that it fundamentally changes your perception of their story and his journey, to the point of calling his journey contradictory/hypocritical.

You have every right to interpret this autobiography differently now, but I also have every right to find that kind of mentality disgusting (as an LGBT person, it bothers me). Take care ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~

I think this is where we’re actually misunderstanding each other. I’m not rewriting his past or saying that his struggles and experiences suddenly became meaningless because of what happened later. I fully acknowledge that those experiences were real and that the manga reflects who he was at that point in his life.

What I’m saying is that this is an autobiography, not a completely fictional story where the author and the character can be separated entirely. The person whose experiences I was reading about is the same person whose later actions I learned about. So yes, that additional context changes how I perceive the person and, consequently, how I interpret the story. That doesn’t mean I believe everything in the manga was a lie.

And when I called the journey contradictory, I wasn’t saying, “He cheated, therefore everything he wrote about love was hypocritical.” I’m talking specifically about the contrast between the values and understanding of love that were presented throughout his story and an action he later apparently took himself. To me, that contrast feels contradictory. You may interpret that differently, and that’s completely fine.

I also think you’re still making a leap when you call that romanticization or fetishization. I didn’t say their relationship was beautiful because they were two men, nor did I expect a gay couple to remain together forever to validate their story. If this were a heterosexual autobiographical couple and I learned that the author later cheated on their partner, I would still have the same reaction. My issue is with the contradiction I perceive between the story’s portrayal of love and the later behavior—not with the fact that they’re a gay couple.

And I never said their relationship ending somehow invalidated their entire history. People can genuinely love each other, have meaningful experiences together, and still hurt each other later. I understand that. But understanding that doesn’t require me to pretend the later information has no effect on how I perceive the story.

You’re absolutely allowed to find my interpretation uncomfortable, and you’re allowed to separate the artist from the work. But calling my reaction “disgusting” doesn’t establish that my interpretation is fetishistic. If anything, we’re simply placing different weight on the relationship between an autobiographical work and the author’s later life. HAVE A GOOD DAY!

I’ll end it here since we’re going in circles (especially since you seem unwilling to understand the distinction I’ve been making), so I won’t keep repeating myself. But to end on this, I still don’t agree with your generalization in your comment. You generalized that people who change their view of the manga because of the author’s personal life are fetishizing gay relationships. That’s a huge assumption about people’s motives.

Your entire fetishization argument is based on the assumption that we expected a gay couple to be perfect, or that the relationship being two men is somehow the reason our perception changed. But that was never the argument. The issue was cheating itself and the contradiction it creates when viewed alongside the principles about love, loyalty, and relationships that were presented in an autobiographical story. You keep reducing that point to “you expected their relationship to be perfect,” when that is simply not what was being argued.
And yes, I understand that his later actions don’t erase his past experiences. Nobody said they did. But acknowledging that doesn’t mean we’re obligated to ignore how new information affects our interpretation of an autobiography. That is the distinction you keep overlooking.
So I think we’ve reached the point where we’re just repeating ourselves and neither of us is going to change the other’s interpretation. I’ve made my point, and I’m not going to argue about it anymore. I also won’t waste any more time arguing with someone who resorts to throwing around words like “fetishizing” and “disgusting” based on assumptions that were never actually made instead of addressing the argument itself.

That’s all from me. bye


P.S: I’ve said my piece, you can disagree, but I’d like my interpretation understood, not reframed.(づ￣ ³￣)づ

Thank you for sharing your point of view. I think we actually agree on quite a lot (which is interesting), even if there are still some things we see differently, and that’s okay. I understand your interpretation, even if I don’t share it, and I think we’ve both made our points clear.

Have a good day too ~

Thank you for going so in depth and wording this well, I did not

honestly this is the only solution I would have been truly satisfied with

Me too! I can totally see them working well together ahah
Jo brings the rational side, and I think he and TJ could really get along. Ian is calm, TJ is stubborn, and Jo is strategic, perfect ! And for the restaurant opening, he would have helped out by taking the photos, and he knows the business

Would have been peak