I feel like ml’s behavior is very romanticized. Fl has turned him down multiple times now and verbally expressed that she doesn’t have any intention to start a romantic relationship with him, yet he keeps pushing further. She seems to go into ‘fawn’ mode (as in trauma responses flight, fight, freeze, and fawn) whenever he’s pushing her boundaries, and because she isn’t pushing him away or doing more to avoid it, a lot of people then think “she actually wanted it all along.” Ml has golden retriever energy so it’s just seen as him trying to help her get out of her own head. Tbh, his behavior is more like a creepy second ml/supporting character who won’t leave the fl alone unless she starts dating someone else
Mmm. I agree (normally) and I also feel like this is a reminder of the importance of nuance. Consent n respecting boundaries are important always, AND humans are also very fickle creatures w a lot of baggage. I think it’s fair to say in this case the two of them have built a lot of intimacy and he knows where pushing / encouraging / consistency will benefit and payoff with FL. This doesn’t mean that this approach is always going to be appropriate or acceptable tho :) I think for a person like her tho, someone showing up so consistently is what is helpful for her in breaking down those walls. Her behavior doesn’t really resemble fawning to me, I think as an avoidant person she’s actually more likely to push him away (which she does often and even in this chapter too). Again, for some people a reaction of freezing or fawning might resemble something similarly, but we do know that FL likes him romantically, she’s just torn on allowing herself to be vulnerable and labeling the relationship.
He def pushes the limits a bit, but I haven’t observed anything super concerning as of yet. You’re right that this type of behavior can be mistaken when it is actually unhealthy and manipulative, there are times when characters or second leads do this selfishly and thoughtlessly. I would consider their history and everything they’ve talked abt openly, as well as the messages she’s sending before jumping to categorizing the behavior so harmfully <3 dating can be complicated! It’s not always so black and white. You make good points tho!! I’m not necessarily disagreeing :))
Mmm. I agree (normally) and I also feel like this is a reminder of the importance of nuance. Consent n respecting boundaries are important always, AND humans are also very fickle creatures w a lot of baggage. I... zozybear
That’s incredibly fair!!! I agree with a lot of what you said, and I was definitely too harsh (especially at the end). I think if I were in fl’s shoes and I told someone I’m not interested, I would want that to be taken at face value, regardless of how I actually feel, because there’s a reason why I’m saying no even though I have similar romantic feelings. But I also understand that from his perspective, she is into him but not ready to let go of all the reasons she can’t be with him, so by continuing to push her, eventually they can overcome those obstacles together.
Regardless of how I might have come across in my first comment, I actually really enjoy this story and don’t plan on dropping it! Thanks for replying so thoughtfully, I’d like your comment if I could but I don’t think replies can be liked (or I’m just missing smth lol)
I feel like ml’s behavior is very romanticized. Fl has turned him down multiple times now and verbally expressed that she doesn’t have any intention to start a romantic relationship with him, yet he keeps pushing further. She seems to go into ‘fawn’ mode (as in trauma responses flight, fight, freeze, and fawn) whenever he’s pushing her boundaries, and because she isn’t pushing him away or doing more to avoid it, a lot of people then think “she actually wanted it all along.” Ml has golden retriever energy so it’s just seen as him trying to help her get out of her own head. Tbh, his behavior is more like a creepy second ml/supporting character who won’t leave the fl alone unless she starts dating someone else
Mmm. I agree (normally) and I also feel like this is a reminder of the importance of nuance. Consent n respecting boundaries are important always, AND humans are also very fickle creatures w a lot of baggage. I think it’s fair to say in this case the two of them have built a lot of intimacy and he knows where pushing / encouraging / consistency will benefit and payoff with FL. This doesn’t mean that this approach is always going to be appropriate or acceptable tho :) I think for a person like her tho, someone showing up so consistently is what is helpful for her in breaking down those walls.
Her behavior doesn’t really resemble fawning to me, I think as an avoidant person she’s actually more likely to push him away (which she does often and even in this chapter too). Again, for some people a reaction of freezing or fawning might resemble something similarly, but we do know that FL likes him romantically, she’s just torn on allowing herself to be vulnerable and labeling the relationship.
He def pushes the limits a bit, but I haven’t observed anything super concerning as of yet. You’re right that this type of behavior can be mistaken when it is actually unhealthy and manipulative, there are times when characters or second leads do this selfishly and thoughtlessly. I would consider their history and everything they’ve talked abt openly, as well as the messages she’s sending before jumping to categorizing the behavior so harmfully <3 dating can be complicated! It’s not always so black and white. You make good points tho!! I’m not necessarily disagreeing :))
That’s incredibly fair!!! I agree with a lot of what you said, and I was definitely too harsh (especially at the end). I think if I were in fl’s shoes and I told someone I’m not interested, I would want that to be taken at face value, regardless of how I actually feel, because there’s a reason why I’m saying no even though I have similar romantic feelings. But I also understand that from his perspective, she is into him but not ready to let go of all the reasons she can’t be with him, so by continuing to push her, eventually they can overcome those obstacles together.
Regardless of how I might have come across in my first comment, I actually really enjoy this story and don’t plan on dropping it! Thanks for replying so thoughtfully, I’d like your comment if I could but I don’t think replies can be liked (or I’m just missing smth lol)