fss's Topics (135)

As a long-time yaoi reader, I separate fiction to reality. Sometimes, some comments are concerning, but I remember that I sometimes think like them too , but only in fiction, it's messed up when applied to reality. Hopefully, the readers are mature to separate reality and fiction as well.
At the end of the day, I just ignore the comments, lol.

it's just as you said. we still read despite the presence of rape and abuse in the story. are you reading because you condone rape irl? no, right? because this is all FICTION. some readers express disgust, which is understandable. if they don't want to read stories like this, that's their preference.

but it's not about becoming desensitized to rape; it's about enjoying the recent fuckin chapters, which are obviously very far from rape, without having these puritans in the comments screaming that it is. that's the point of all those comments'. we can have constructive discussions about characters' behaviors (abuse/rape) in the past, and be disappointed if they do the same shit again after the redemption. but that's not what this is. some readers nitpick everything and label it as rape, even if it's obviously not. now, isn't THAT what's watering down the seriousness of rape? (if we disregard the fact that these characters are not even fuckin real.)

I was actually scared that someone's going to comment about rape stuff, because back then, nobody gives a fuck. Now, everyone's trying to connect it to the real world, which is weird. If you know it's fiction, why question it? Learn to separate both worlds.
Obviously, we readers know that it's fiction, hopefully we all do, lol.

Beautifully explained!!

Also, this would be a whole lot different if it were something based on a true event. That would be an actual reflection of rape irl because it actually happened and it would no longer be fiction. All in all, the bottom line is, fiction ≠ reality. I read this manhwa and I truly sympathised with the uke and I'm also loving how the seme has been changing for the better. In the real world, I'm always, always afraid of potential danger. Would any of us ever forgive and forget actual rapists? Never.

everyone is responsible for the media they consume

Small correction: there is no forgiving fictional characters. They're just...characters in a story. You love them, hate them,judge them. Real life rapists don't get any damn redemption. They should just die the worst death possible.

Exactly.

exactly istg. If these people read the things in the past they would go crazy. Like it is just a fiction

“separate fiction from reality” seems to be the main argument here
Then where do we draw the line on other morally ambiguous content?
Do we support adults who consume pedophilic content, because drawn anime characters are fictional?
I somewhat agree with the claim but the reasoning doesn’t really hold up I feel
If it’s true that continuous exposure can affect people’s preferences (sexually) then the same can be applied to attraction to rape, considering it’s been connected to porn and continuously promoted and consumed as “normal content”
And considering a large portion of this audience is minors (esp young girls) who are more susceptible because they are still developing
Just something to think about. Because just cause you feel you can morally separate fiction from reality doesn’t mean your brain and body feel the same way.

But also to clear things up, the original post was directed towards people that were going out of their way to justify Taeju’s actions

Thank you bestie, finally someone says it out loud! I enjoy the art and find some things enjoyable in this story. But tbh, I still find the seme a forceful creep (I won't deny he genuinely loves the uke) who uses his money to help AND bind the uke to himself. I really wanna like the seme, but I only like the uke and his little brother.

that’s the best comment here! i wish it was pinned up for all the “it’s just fiction” people to read

That is exactly why unikalluto said that people are responsible for the content they consume. You can't really compare one bad thing with another, especially when it's stuff like rape and pedophilia. Can't say one is worse than the other.

And about minors are being influenced? Minors shouldn't be reading this kind of thing in the first place. We can't really police everything a minor watches either. And this is where proper sex ed comes in.

End note is, there's no way to defend a character's crimes, so if there's anybody justifying earlier Taeju's actions, that's on them. Thank you for reminding that THAT was the topic.

Why not? The argument was that you should be able to separate fiction from reality. According to this, people who like content with kids can read it but claim they only like it when it’s drawn. What’s the problem?
Would you not argue that the fetishization of legitimate rape in media is also somewhat concerning?
It’s not a coincidence that most rape in yaoi happen with the victim being a slimmer, more submissive, more feminine character (esp omegaverse)

It’s true that we cannot control what kids do on the internet, but we as a society are consuming so much rape content that at least 50% of the featured content here is explicit rape most of the time. And even ao3, one of the most popular gateways for young kids after they start consuming media with fandoms, TWO of the top 5 fandoms have at least 25% of the explicit media being pedophilia & underage sex. 25% is also rape. In one of the other top 5 fandoms, 25% of the explicit content is incest.
The first filters in ao3 under violence is if you want to include rape and underage sex/pedophilia (I used ao3 as an example of what is popular in society since they can provide pretty accurate statistics. Mangago not much so)
I get that we as individuals are not responsible for children going on these sites, but are we not somewhat responsible for popularizing and normalizing this content to the point where the very first things you see in media (and almost the majority) are explicit rape, pedophilia, and incestuous content? There’s a reason why there’s so much of this content… because it’s in demand… until when can we evade responsibility?

Also FYI in my country sex Ed starts in late elementary to early middle school. Most people I know have been exposed to graphic porn in early elementary school.

why do you read this story despite its depiction of rape and abuse? are you endorsing or glorifying that? please answer this because it raises the question that if you're a normal person, what other reason is there for consuming this type of media, if not because you can differentiate it from reality?

personally, I have no issue distinguishing fiction from reality because I understand it doesn't harm anyone. except for porn, which exploits real people—that's a different matter. the characters in this story are just lines on paper.

regarding your point about media influencing real-life behavior, do you believe playing violent games or watching violent movies leads to people becoming shooters or murderers? I consume this type of media myself, yet I firmly believe that rapists and pedophiles have no place in society and should d1e the worst possible death.

I'm not defending TJ's past behavior in my previous comment. people are entitled to their opinions about characters, whether they love or hate them. but the constant outcry in the comments about every little thing being labeled as rape when it's not is frustrating. that's what everyone is discussing in those comments.

if this type of sexual content in media isn't for you, you can simply choose not to read it. it's not that complicated.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way. I think it's good to have this discussion. while I am firm about my opinion regarding fiction ≠ reality, I still want to hear other people's views on this topic.

I never claimed any of that first part lol
Violence in video games doesn’t have any scientific evidence to back up the idea that it makes people violent. However, it is scientifically proven that associating one thing continuously with sexual pleasure causes people to develop a fetish for it. You’re literally training your body and brain that the subject is something sexual and pleasurable. It’s not my opinion it’s just science. They use this info to help rehabilitate criminals who commit sex crimes. But don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that everyone who develops a fetish for rape is a rapist. Just whether you like it or not, this type of porn 100% affects your brain and subconscious.

And yeah I did say to call me a hypocrite lol I don’t think I should be consuming this type of content either. I won’t share the reason why because that’s my personal info, but I’ve seen how bad it has affected me too. I plan to hopefully quit soon.
But do you think developing a fetish for rape and fetishizing rape in general is not harmful? What about those that develop a fetish for incest? Is that okay? They aren’t affecting anyone.
And this clearly affects people’s rationality surrounding rape.
For example, many people argue that Taeju had consensual sex with Euihyun this most recent chapter (which is what I believe you’re claiming? Don’t wanna put words in your mouth tho)

“Stop”
“I don’t want to”
“I want to stop now”
“I said I don’t like it, didn’t I?”
“I said no.. why do you keep… you said you wouldn’t do things I don’t like but…”
“you only think about what’s good for you” “enough”
“I’m not doing it anymore”
“hey I said enough!”
“now take it out!”
“My legs!”

How in the world is this consensual at all??? I’m genuinely curious as to why people think so. Because Taeju said his scent didn’t hate it and his body felt pleasure? So what if Euihyun liked it? He said no. Whatever the reason is, it doesn’t matter. he wanted to stop so it’s literally noncon. The last time I checked this couple doesn’t have a safe word either (it would save us all pain if they normalized this shit smh). And Taeju literally coerced Euihyun to move in with him through sex. I get that Euihyun wasn’t totally against moving in given his reaction in the morning, but it would’ve been an excellent start to Taeju beginning to respect Euihyun and make amends if they just had an actual talk instead of settling things over sex.
The fact that people think this is consensual genuinely concerns me.

But yeah I didn’t originally post the comment to frown down on everyone that simply reads this story. That’s none of my business. I just thought it was wild how everyone was defending Taeju when bro is literally a rapist. And using reasoning that real life rapist defenders would use (ex; his body proved he liked it) just saying how dangerous this POV is to spread
I kinda got a little off topic in my previous comment but this is the point I wanna nail in

I agree. Thanks for clearing that up- helped me correct myself. Sometimes I can get a little tooo passionate lol

Welcome to Yaoi world. There's nothing you can do actually because people will either ignore or explain fiction and reality, etc., to you.

If it's mentally affecting you, avoid reading these stuff and maybe avoid the community, because they will be more hard to handle, and it may affect you easily if you're a sensitive (which there's nothing wrong).

Well, for me, when I read fictional stories, I try to detach it from reality, unless it's meant for it to be applied to the real world. For this one, I see it as fiction. Though it was a bit concerning with the forced part, I just scroll through it because I know that for the next chapter, it'll be okay. We understand your concern though, we've all been there, we readers just grew up to see it as fiction in the end. And thankfully, still sane enough to know fiction and reality.

(No one (on this thread at least) is saying it was consensual sex, I don't know how you reached that conclusion lol)

There are several studies which have reported more aggressive behaviour from people who play violent games etc. Since you are bringing up stats, please search that up too.

If this was pwp then you could easily equate it to straight up pornography. But this manhwa has a story. It's still yaoi, which heavily focuses on sex between men, so a majority of it is still sex (and rape). As I was saying, there is no justifying the rape/rapist. And I was talking about liking the recent chapters and would you call all that non-consensual etc? Everyone is different and is used to different things. Some people like bdsm and some like vanilla. I've seen people shudder with terror with the very idea of bondage.

I just like this particular story. I don't read all the rapey yaoi out there. What you said about the smaller, feminine uke is true tho. I like size differences, bigger bottoms, same size, everything a lot but it's also annoying sometimes when it's almost like the uke is a girl. It's different to just being a character trait. That I don't advocate either. I don't think Euihyun is very girly tho, but reminder that this is still omegaverse lol he can literally get pregnant.

FYI there is neither formal nor informal sex ed in my country :( I learned by myself, which is why I know it is so important since not everyone is me. If this kind of content influences you or someone else in such a way that you end up fetishising it, then there already isn't much to do, don't you think? I hope you succeed in leaving yaoi.

Also man I started reading yaoi when I was in 6th grade. My friend, who is aroace, introduced it to me. The idea of sex itself made me gag back then. The recommended manga had fully consensual sex. And I still initially recoiled back aggressively. And now I'm here, over a decade later.

I agree too- this is a very good discussion.

The person I was talking to said it was not rape. Nonconsensual sex is rape, and my argument was that it was nonconsensual sex, so. When I was generally speaking I was referring to my initial comment that was talking about other comments not related to this chain.
Sorry ab the gaming thing, just didn’t bother to look it up bc I thought it wasn’t at all relevant to the point, regardless if it was true or not.
To the point I was making, if they have a safe word or an equivalent way to determine if their sex is consensual, then sure. But legitimate rape is not at all BDSM… BDSM HEAVILY focuses on consent between partners especially because the sexual acts are usually more intense so it’s extremely important to determine if everyone involved feels safe and gives their consent. As far as I know Taeju and Euihyun have no way to determine this.
and I want to bring up that CNC is entirely different from rape/noncon. There are a lot of manhwas that use BDSM & CNC safely and it definitely looks nothing like this lol.
I agree sex Ed is very important, it sucks it’s not in your country.
It’s good that you feel it doesn’t affect you. However, even if you disregard the fact that continuous consumption of rape fetishized media will 99% of the time lead to the person being attracted to it, isn’t it pretty clear how much this has shat on our society? 25% of one of the top 5s in ao3 having a rape tag is absolutely insane to me. And the fact that people can’t clearly determine what is nonconsensual or not is a little alarming. If we can’t even get to that point, can we really make the point that nonconsensual content is okay to consume because it’s easily distinguishable from reality? It doesn’t seem that way to me.

I didn't mean that bdsm or cnc applies to euihyun and taeju. Those were just examples of the different degrees of severity of content people can consume. This one was very clearly rape. I don't particularly think this manhwa really fetishises rape because it is clearly portrayed as rape. It's not romanticised. The seme here knows it too, which is why he's trying to atone. This here is where the only difference comes in. In real life, there is no redemption arc. People don't happily get together with their rapists in real life. What you're saying about romanticising rape is correct but from my pov it doesn't really apply to this comic.

Also the gaming thing is relevant if you think about it. As I said, you cannot compare one bad thing with another. Aggression can get so bad, people kill out of it. Crimes are under such grey area that we can't really say yes this was worse or no this was better.

I think the matter here is Immersion. How willing are some people to immerse themselves in a story like this?

(Not criticizing - whoever relates, you keep doing you!)

• Some people say they have past trauma and reading this kinda stuff helps them cope.
• Other people read it no probs, having no issues simping for Sangwoo, Jaekyung, etc in fiction and chemically castrating theirs asses as we smile IRL.
• Some people don't check or are misled by tags and by the time they get to the first SA, they feel too invested to drop and... decide to power through their own discomfort. Skipping sex scenes that sometimes take entire chapters that contains key interactions for the plot between the MCs.
• And some other people that clearly struggle reading stories depicting SA but for some unfathomable reason proceed to just like the previous group

That's on SA, but there's also omegaverse. How much do they know about, how much thought have they given it? Just the basics (second genders and pills), down to biology or even politics?

It's an important point because omegaverse isn't like a side ship you can just ignore if you don't fancy it.

"I hate omegaverse but there are many banger stories out there that are omegaverse. Eh, I'll read and just pretend it isn't."

You can't. It's an entire, different UNIVERSE.

• Omega pheromones scent during/outside heat (ovulation / no ovulation)
• Cycle heat vs Rut-induced heat
• Cycle rut vs Heat-induced rut
• Feral heat / Feral rut (too many cycles with no partner)
• Male periods
• Knotting
• Bonding / marking / scent-marking

There are sooo many things to be considered that even the authors don't usually enter much in details (usually politics and law).

Not saying Taeju didn't do a lot of raping in the beginning, oh he definitely DID. Euihyun was raped from ch1 to chap 34 (when he says he welcomes Taeju's affections). And then once again in chapter 53 (taeju's rut).

But these last chapters? Guys...

Readers should stop comparing our bodies to theirs. They're NOT the same. If Euihyun smelled like he was in the mood for more, then he was.

because it's dubcon at most, rather than straight-up rape.

you mentioned that readers' morals are watered down by too much rape in yaoi. so I pointed out that those who complain are seemingly the ones watering down the seriousness of rape by scrutinizing every detail in the sex scenes and labeling it as such. tht's why i said that if these scenes or themes make them uncomfortable, they can choose to stop reading the story (instead of continually complaining about deviations from their expectations regarding how the characters should fuck or how the story progresses in general.)

and to sum up all my previous replies: they are not real, it's not that serious

*when i say it's dubcon, im pertaining to the sex scenes in the recent chapters. im not justifying/rationalizing tj's behavior in the past because he DID rape and abuse euihyun before we got to this point in the story

probably should have said but the romanticizing is bad lol
But that’s why it’s psychological

Meh not rlly (I can elaborate if you want)

He told him “stop I don’t want it” and tried to push him away fym
And then at the end ash is like “yk that wasn’t me right it was just in the moment” like tf
This manhwa is supposed to highlight consensual sex

I mean we have access to Karlyle’s thoughts and he’s enjoying it, plus it’s already been established between them that he only says that bc he’s embarrassed… I do think it’s a lil weird but it’s more of an author issue than a character issue

But how from Ash’s perspective how tf is he supposed to know if Karlyle is being serious or not. Like, him saying “it hurts” like 3x “I don’t want it” “stop” and physically trying to push him away is a bit excessive for Karlyle just being a tsundere type. Did they already establish a safe word and I forgot or something??? This is so common in those manhwas where the bottom will try everything to get the top off them but they “actually secretly enjoy it” like that is a lovely message you are sending about consent to your audience.

Bc they’ve talked about it before, I’m pretty sure Karlyle said smth like “I don’t hate anything you do” or sum. They do establish a safe word when Ash is in his right mind

Oh okay didn’t remember that they had a safe word my fault
First point doesn’t really make sense though… saying that one time doesn’t automatically mean infinite consent

That’s true but I’m guessing it does for the author (Asian standards are a bit iffy)

become more beautiful

Also the ABO universe here is totally irrelevant… I don’t even know why it’s included in the story unless it’s an allegory for gender roles in same sex relationships in which case it has the opposite effect considering he’s probably an omega which fits every stereotype ever…

the dialogue is so poorly written it’s funny

Seriously.. what a waste

I agree with you..omegaverse was really unecessary. No rut or no heat. It seems the author forgot about the omegaverse thing (￣∇￣")

Yupppp author only uses it to have other guys sexually assault our MC… like 95% of every other omegaverse stories

yeah I know what you mean, I have mysophobia so putting my hand on my face when it’s “dirty” would give me a literal panic attack but it’s fiction at the end of the day and I think the author just isn’t knowledgeable about it

That’s fair. At least it’s not a harmful perspective necessarily, but when you’re publishing pieces on a diverse subject that you aren’t part of/don’t really know much about it’s best to have someone in that group proofread or something. I feel like mysophobia and contamination OCD is soooo misrepresented in media which causes people to stay ignorant on the subject…
But then again this is Japan so lol

Agreeee. It made no sense

That’s the whole point. He didn’t have it. His problem was thinking he HIMSELF was the dirty one.

Oh ok mb for not finishing but isn’t that also under contamination OCD? I feel like by diagnostic criteria it would still be OCD given rituals / circular thinking
Idk what the point would be of having a manga where this guy goes through exposure therapy to cure his OCD when he doesn’t actually have it but maybe the point is flying over my head idk

Yes your right it’s still a form of OCD

To continue, the point of the manga is for him to realize he’s not dirty. And he deserves to experience different things. He may not have misophobia, but he still has a type of ocd (not sure which). And the exposure therapy breaks down his barrier slightly, but doing it with the ml is really what makes him realize he can start to let go of his problems. Like he finally reached out to his father again, and he interacts with his coworkers more, aswell as not wearing his gloves at work.

Yea I guess so. But I still feel like contamination OCD & mysophobia have so many overlaps so I feel like it’s still inaccurate. If he’s more concerned about contaminating others with his own body then it doesn’t really make sense that he will touch his face rather than avoiding it. I just feel with that kind of thing he would realistically be conscious of every single move and it’s not really possible to slip up like that. Just my opinion tho

You do know there is people irl who simply CANNOT handle alcohol, right? ^^;

It's a gulp, not a sip

[insert alcoholics disagreeing noises]

I’m not gonna deny that this is true but come on lol look at how much he weighs…. Plus, he barely even tipped the cup. For him to be drunk enough to be stumbling and passing out is just ridiculous.

He has low body fat, it's still possible

yeah but it’s just unrealistic imo even lightweights don’t get drunk from 1 small sip lol

It's a gulp once again, athletes are known to be lightweight.

Alcohol can have vast reactions for each person.
Some can handle it and drink a russian Don under the table, others get shitfaced after a small amount as seen with JJ.
Hell, there is even people with medical conditions that can have other reactions, as is the case with some korean people that genetically cannot drink alcohol due to risk of death.

Body build DOES play a big role. Him being heavy doesn't matter as much as his body being lean and other factors that make his system work differently.

There's also something to all this as it's a VERY commonly used trope in stories in asia, so you'll likely find people getting drunk more easily over there than with other countries. Else the cliche would be common in western fiction as well, which it isn't. Likely because our relationship to alcohol is a bit different and rooted in our systems even. XD