Its so unfair to kei, this whole story is so unfair to her to the point that when you think about it, even her own servant if loyal to rei. Nobody cares for her. I feel anger for her whenever I think about the situation of kei. Everyone is in love with rei.
It gets to the point that I'm somehow actively kinda hating rei because of how unfair the story is to kei.
It's actually so disappointing how can both be the same standing when one is actively drowning with no help? Rei can do shit Because she was loved and cared for rei has none of that it's just so disappointing.
Kei**
First off: Comments within threads cannot be altered, but you wrote the original post. The original post can be edited forever, so you don't need to add more comments if you wish to add something.
But for the thing with Keigetsu: I'm not partial to either of them. I believe that what the story wants to drive home is the will to make things happen, even when its hard. Keigetsu is the type of person who will always wallow in self pity. She wasn't dealt a great hand, but she was given a great opportunity. The idea is to show that Reirin made things happen not because of her beautiful face or great standing, but because her inner Beauty shone through. By being inside a body that can't be healthy for even a minute, she was dealt a hand just as shitty. I only saw the anime and came here to check out the manga, so I don't know if it differs and I only saw the contents of the first 7 episodes, so I'm not very far in either, but up until now, everything that happened was due to the two girls' innate nature.
The fact that someone who was supposed to serve Keigetsu, but will be loyal to Reirin, is not due to the fate of life but due to Keigetsu and her personality. She will always take the easy way out and sees herself as the victim. If it had been easy to act pike Reirin to begin with, Keigetsu could have done just that. She never knew what Reirin was all about; she didn't even know that she had a body that practically gave out under the sheer weight of its mere existence. I get that even Keigetsu deserves character development and it seems, according to the contents of the comments here, that that doesn't happen. Then again, I'm sorry, but that type of thing is a part of a person's very nature. It simply won't ever really change. It's the embodiment of "when life gives you lemons". Reirin would happily take the lemons, make lemonade and maybe open up her lemonade business to thrive. Keigetsu would curse at the lemons, then bite the cest and huff the fumes and imagine lemonade, until she's so convinced she should have gotten the lemonade instead that she would be willing to steal it.
Her understanding is that other people just "get" things and she didn't "get" things. But others worked for things and she didn't. But changing this outlook on the world is impossibly from one moment to the next, because the human mind will strive to protect itself and acceptance in such a situation will cause one to redirect all of that hatred, which in part has always been subconsciously directed at oneself, to fully focus only on oneself. It would crush you, so you wouldn't easily accept to have been wrong all this time.
Therefore, change isn't easy and it wouldn't make so much sense here.
How does one even change her bitterness is only there out of sheer desperation how does one learn something when one was never taught it? Honestly I see it differently its nature vs nurture.
How does one even have that kind of personality without that kind of upbringing. I see it the same as humans. Humans who were never really taught coping mechanisms lash out. After all which cornered animal wouldn't?
Worked for things? She's an orphan and a branch families freaking trash of course she has none. I understand people love Rei's mentality a lot. How does one make lemonade when you were never given the time and lesson to make a lemonade. Everyone knows how to make lemonade don't they why didn't she know it? Rei has structure and discipline that was taught to her it feels unfair because it is unfair. How can someone contend with someone who knows how to make lemonade because they were taught how. Kei was just given the lemons and was told make lemonade. Even if it was easy to make a lemonade she was never taught how, she never even knew about the damn lemons.
After all isn't it easy to make lemonade? Is probably what she was fucking told
That spits in the face of every person who didn't end up her way. Yes, upbringing is important. But just as a complete psychopath can be raised within a normal family (though it's the rarer case), a person can be happy and positive after being raised in a broken environment. The latter actually happens a lot, because the people grown in these environments are more resilient; they have a high mental fortitude.
You are supposed to work for things. You don't get them handed.
That is exactly the type of attitude that makes Keigetsu the way she is. "Oh, Reirin got handed everything because she's loved."
No, Reirin also had a huge cross to bear and because of it, she gets up everyday, despite being unable to breathe properly, and when she can't get up because of a fever, she will learn. She will do whatever she can to go a step further.
Keigetsu just put on wild make up, got angry and elevated herself by putting the people around her down. Surprised that none of them wanted to love her? Then you don't know how being human works.
You believe she is capable of learning forbidden magic by herself, but she can't even try and imitate the person who's so different from her, because her funky ass is so sad, she can't be nice to people?
Sorry, but that's just a weak mindset and that's why she loses.
Thats is incredibly shallow. Weak mindset? Are you saying that to every single victim of circumstances? A child born in poverty is more likely to stay in poverty. Survivor bias is real. For one survivor ten more live in that circumstance unable to even get up. Brains wired in survival mode stays in survival mode. Do not say that are you the kind of person to say to a depressed person be happy? She's like that because those are protective mechanisms to protect herself you cannot easily rewire a brain.
How can you work for things when you were never given the tools to begin with? The whole system is designed that way and if you can't even acknowledge that then you're just an incredibly unaware of the wider picture.
What you say also spits in the face of every single person that wasn't able to escape their situation.
Yeah. Because that's on them. Spitting in the face of people who didn't even try when they could have - people like Keigetsu - is more insulting than telling the truth to people who didn't properly try that they didn't properly try and just blamed everyone else instead of taking accountability.
You spout bullshit like this of course im going to get angry. Reirin can never compare to Kei. Kei had nobody. Rei has a family, structure, and more. Kei on the otherhand had nothing. I shall say this again. Nobody can fucking do anything without that structure that rei has, kei HAD NOBODY, every single word she says and does is multipled time 10 and turned against her. You act like someone who talks about pulling themselves up by the bootstraps but when every single thing is against you, how the fuck can you pull yourselves up? When the system is against you how can you? When everyone already has an opinion of you how can they get closer than you, how can you be nice to someone who talks shit about you and is willing to trash you? How can a CHILD rewire their brain that was wired for survival and change the attitude in an instant. I understand that people can do and be different if they force themselves. But what about the people who cannot change because they themselves were never given the tools to change. I understand that system and is willing to look through it in a wider lens, you on the other hand has such shallow opinions like work for things.
How can you even try when there is no one to help you try and the tools needed. You are spitting in every single victim of circumstances. Blaming the victim and blind to the reality of what happens to a hated person like Keigetsu and her life
How shallow of you I understand the reason I understand the reason why kei is the way she is you're no different from any other person who ostracized Kei. After all who's going to listen to her?
Because you piss me off, let me tell you a few things about myself. And I'm btw not saying I've had the worst life - but that's not something to compare anyway.
I was born to a divorced woman with two prior children and no job. My father was barely around and when I was 16, he came around and told me out of the blue that, since I'm no longer acting like a clingy 5-year-old as a teenager (and with him never around) that I'm therefore no longer his child and he would sell me for five bucks if someone offered. My mother was close by and heard every word. I went into my bedroom to cry, she followed me, sat down next to me, patted me on the shoulder like a bro for a second and then walked out again.
We never had any money, my mother was at home all day, but we never talked. When I was in elementary school, I tried to make a connection by telling my mother about my day when I came home from school. That's the time I learned to discern when someone listens to me or iust pretends to. I could stop talking in the middle of my sentence and she wouldn't notice at all. So I iust stopped talking to her. When I was a newborn, we just moved to a small village, far away from the rest of our relatives. My parents knew nobody there. Not a soul. But nobody cared for me, so nobody gave a shit when the random old couple from downstairs would fetch me at 5 am to return me late in the evening from my newborn days up until I was three. Nowadays, I apparently fulfill all signs for someone having experienced early sexual abuse, which I cannot remember. Well, there's that. I also have ADHD which made my schooldays horrible to get around, because nobody cared to get me diagnosed with absolutely anything. In general, nobody really gave a shit, no matter what I did. I could go anywhere, I could stay out the entire day and evening and it's a miracle I survived my early childhood. Because of that environment, the first years of my life fostered hate between me and my siblings.
Even from my schooldays, my teachers were people who would openly berate or talk down to me for random things because of my bum mother. Because it's a village and they all knew who she was. I was a pariah for that alone. I never had a chance.
I pulled myself out of that hole. I graduated. I did all the things I wanted to do. Never went to university, though that was because of the crippling depression I had during that timeframe. But I grew it out. I moved far away. I found a good job and are currently on my way to becoming a team leader. Now I have friends I can trust and the only family I kept by my side is my sister, but that's all the family I need.
I have another sister with whom my connection isn't very strong. She has the same father but a different mother. She's also 18 years my senior. When my father "lost" her to CPS, she went from one foster family to the next, each new one worse than the last. She now lives in a suburban house, with her husband and 5 daughters, with a good job and a nice life. That's for a different flavor.
"Having nothing" doesn't mean "not having any chances".
Then remember that not every fucking person survived like you 10 fucking people get left behind and die.
We're talking about people in Situations comparable to Keigetsu. Not child soldiers in the middle east or victims of human trafficking.
In situations like her's, you always have a choice. She had more than one chance. If you can't do it, you lack willpower. I have no feelings of pity for those people. I feel nothing towards them.
Every failure of my life was a choice. I could have pulled myself together, so I could have gone to university, no matter the circumstances. There's always a way, even if it isn't perfect, even if it takes longer to reach the goal, but you have to put in the effort. If you don't, you don't. But that's on you, and you have to take accountability for it.
You put you're entire life in a comment section, I didn't. How does she even know she had choices? She was thrown into the wolves without anyone backing her. YOU MISSED MY POINT. This is anime is about a freaking harem. Their lives revolve around the crown prince. Their treated by how the prince favors them as well as the emperors. Her family didn't even give her any support. Their lives are on the line based on the mood of the men around them. You do not understand the power of gossip in a court surrounded by wolves. How does ONE GET TO CHANGE IN A PLACE UNWILLING TO LET YOU CHANGE. The opinion is already there and with how shallow you're opinion is of kei you are no different from thos who alienated her.
I put a fraction of my life here. Don't know how it matters if you did or not. Not like anybody cares, I gave an example, because I'm not attached to it.
Yes, it revolves around a harem. You still don't die for not being super favored. There's three or four others who aren't the MC or Keigetsu. They don't die or suffer. Yes, there's scheming going on. She helped the case by doing some scheming of her own, getting deeper into murky waters. That's, btw, what you don't do. Loops right back to accountability.
The story itself clearly shows you are in the wrong. So how are you so sure of yourself? You literally baffle me.
Most people have no clue that they switched places, yet Reirin in Keigetsu's body can make people loyal to her. Reirin can make people think of Keigetsu's body as beautiful. Keigetsu in Reirin's body is just as bad as she was before and even that goodwill Reirin created starts melting away as people notice how different she is now.
She had all the chances of getting people to not hate her. She never took as single one.
Reirin had a different overall mindset that she was raised by. Keigetsu on the other had none of that. How can you people like reirin when your treated like shit.
Be like reirin**
Be like reirin**
But that mindset is what I was talking about.
It's not as simple as "being raised by it", because then all of her peers would have been like her. It was simply a mindset she held.
That is survivor bias AGAIN, I HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU how can you even be given a choice when they didn't even know about it. That mindset isn't a choice its a consequence of what was happening to her
You don't need to be told that there are choices. She had examples all around her.
Don't pretend people are blind, deaf, and mentally challenged. Even if you "have nothing", as long as you have a functioning mind, it is to be expected that you can gather these things on your own. That's what I mean by accountability.
You are blaming a victim who doesn't know how to swim and is actively drowning. She isn't avoiding accountability she is actually drowning. She doesn't know how to swim because no one taught her. She only sees what is already there. She is traumatized and exhausted already what more do you want from her?
No, I am blaming someone for hiding behind their status of a "victim", while not willing to put in any effort and crying at every point of pressure.
The comparison sucks, because someone who's drowning will drown fast. If drowning took years to follow through, it would be easy to learn how to swim, even if it's out of sheer desperation. If you, however, still just flail about, without even trying to learn how to swim, that's on you.
She managed to do quite a lot of things without anyone showing her. She managed to perfectly talk down to people, but an example of someone friendly or even someone just pretending to be friendly, is beyond her capability to imitate? That's rich.
You're ignoring her life before she even came to the palace, she's allowed to cry because when life is down already you can cry. So when someone drowns because of the waves you blame them? Even when they were a strong swimmer. How can she be nice to people when all her expectations are to be ocstracized. You're ignoring why she even became like this and it shows. You're expecting someone who was never taught something to immediately learn it yes she used and learnt black magic for herself but how can someone be right when no one taught her how to?
So you like blaming people if they weren't able to get out of the their circumstances how rich of you. You got out of your circumstances out of luck and resources you had kei has nothing.
You dress it up with "accountability". How funny. A victim is allowed to be a victim even if they arent a perfect one.
No victim is "perfect" and nobody said they were. But you are literally mixing all sorts of people and all sorts of problems into one. Not every "victim" even wants to be called or seen as a victim.
Not every "victim" is the same. And the type of "victim" we are talking about has more than enough possibilities - just because you want to be apologetic about this specific character you like.
Yes, it is accountability. Standing there and blaming everyone else is seeking fault for your fuck-ups with everyone and everything but yourself. Crying about it won't help.
At this point, you are simply trying to shift the blame.
You keep talking about me generalizing victims but i think you are generalising victims, not everything is black and white. Do not assume that everyone can save themselves. And as i said earlier she didn't know she has choices when she was never given any choices in her life. Look my first comments were empathetic towards kei because her situation is hard to imagine being in however I see that you have none of that. I don't even like the character i was just sympathysing towards her just thinking about in that situation makes my heart heavy towards her
I believe you simply can't justify any of the things you said; therefore, you are trying to hide behind empty "empathy" for victims, trying to tell me I am victim-blaming. There is a difference between "victim blaming" and simply calling out people who aren't trying.
Nobody says that people have had a hard past. That is why I'm saying that everybody has got their cross to bear. Excusing people for the shit they are pulling because "ThEy NEvEr leArnEd" is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard.
You say you don't like her, but "sympathize" with her. No, you're wrong. You're pandering to the character. You're basically sitting next to her, telling her, that, yes, "you're just a poor little victim. You never had a chance. You could only ever be a loser, because no one was there to give you everything you want and need. It's okay that you're an asshole, because how else would you have ever turned out? There's no way you could have ever achieved anything without people handing it to you in the first place."
Firstly you are victim-blaming "difference between "victim blaming" and simply calling out people who aren't trying." Just because others suffer doesn't mean her suffering doesn't count. Secondly what i was talking about is reality its psychology its a trauma response.Again you try to deem my opinion invalid because i like the character and it seems its hard for you to emphasize towards her. I have never said that you have misconstrued my words. I have never said she was helpless i have said i felt bad for her situation and she was never given a chance i never said she wasn't an asshole I said that was a consequence due to her upbringing. I said she needed tools and a guide.
It seems you have a chip on your shoulder regarding this chearacter
Okay, one last time: Nobody talked about anyone else or said anybody's "suffering" didn't matter. I said everybody has their cross to bear. If you can't understand what that means, it is not my job to explain that to you, and it is also not my problem.
You are constantly trying to shift the criticisim I leveled on YOU, personally, and only YOU, for pretending that the character portrayed in this story, the way she is portrayed, with the level of hardship she was faced, somehow was not at fault for turning out the way she did. You're trying to shift it by saying I now claim someone's suffering doesn't count, which is completely bogus, because that was never part of this discussion. I said that people can learn to get by and need to have the will to move on; otherwise, they won't get even one step ahead. That is a fact.
And I said you don't sympathize; you are apologizing for her. I didn't say you like her in my last message with a single word. I also don't care if you like her; that's just how it came off from all the comments you made under your own thread and all the replies you sent to me, which were whiny from the start.
"I have never said that you have misconstrued my words." - But funnily enough, you are constantly doing that with my words. I also don't remember where I claimed that you said that. Maybe my IQ dropped during this discussion with you.
"I have never said she was helpless" - That is exactly what you are saying the entire time; you just used a variety of words for it. One of which is what you repeat a few words later: "she was never given a chance". She had more than a few chances getting friendly with people.
I said it before, but you don't seem to get it: This very story makes a point of Personality being the important factor. When Reirin is inside Keigetsu's body, she turns everything around by being fucking nice. It didn't take more than not acting in the vile way others expected her to - and their expectation stemmed from experience. Keigetsu had the entire time to just not be an asshole, seeing how every other Jewel behaved, at least trying to copy it outwardly. She never even fucking tried.
"I said she needed tools and a guide" - She had all the tools she would have needed, and she had more than one guide to look up to, yet she utilized none of it.
"It seems you have a chip on your shoulder regarding this chearacter" - I gave you ONE rundown of a character build-up and the portrayed personality's nature. I do care about characters and character development, because I am a writer myself. You answered in a completely hysterical manner, with three separate comments, and kept answering in that manner. And now you tell ME something about a chip on the shoulder because of the CHARACTER?
HEY, idiot! Yes, I'm talking to you! YOU ARE THE PERSON I am having issues with. You and your moronic way of viewing the world, which you have put on full display. I don't give a shit about the character.
But anyway, it's getting tedious, so I will mute this chat and stop replying from now on. I just hope you will never be responsible for absolutely anyone with that attitude.
For someone who doesn't care you sure did write alot-insulted me then muted me. For someone who called my worldview "moronic" it hurt you.
Omg thank you for saying ts
After spending almost an hour reading through and having my own monologue that would be wayy to long to write into here, all I’ve gotta say is that I agree with you, you’ve made points that I’ve certainly agreed with lol
Being honest all I wanted to do was vent about how i felt the story was being so unfair to a character and I replied to myself as a way of processing my feelings. I never really wanted the attention. But it seems to tikky my personal feelings were wrong.
Though I’m only caught up to chapter 26, it does seem like the writing isn’t doing much with Kei’s character after a great run from 1-20. After going through a childhood where she was devoid of support from the adults in her life to finally having a friend she can lean on, I do hope she has a moment where she can shine on her own person.
As her own person**
Keigetsu is the type of person who will always wallow in self pity. She wasn't dealt a great hand, but she was given a great opportunity. The idea is to show that Reirin made things happen not because of her beautiful face or great standing, but because her inner Beauty shone through.
-- Totally agree, say it as it is. Keigetsu was selfish at the start and also victimising. In the earlier chapters, she wanted Reirin to die and kept blaming everyone else and her environment for her standing. Yet she was mean to her attendant hence who would even be loyal to her? She also kept looking for Reirin only when she wanted help and that was shameless enough. For me, she only started redeeming herself when she took personal risk to do the curse on consort shu.
I have a friend whose brother used to complain about not being able to go to to good university compared to my friend and hence why he is jobless for years. They both grew up in a poor and abusive household but my friend worked hard for her grades and made it to a better school. Yet he had the audacity to say it's cause she is more blessed with intelligence. It's people like this who don't yake responsibility for what they can control and blame and lash out at others whom I can't stand.
Yes, Kei is pitiful and manipulated, but it was also her choice and desire to be unkind to others beneath her own station and also wish for death upon someone else out of jealousy, taking their place with ease as if it were her right and not have to work for it just cause she is more pitiful and thus more deserving.
You see people like that in real life society. There are those who are dealt a harsh hand in life and yet they don't lash out at others.
But the thing is that is true but that doesn't discount the many that couldn't rise above it and survivorship bias is real but the thing is I am not excusing her actions but i understand how she became this way and why she acts like this thats why I feel sorry for her. She doesn't have anybody like family that could help her after all she's deemed a rat.
The thing is, you can put two people in the same environment but they will behave differently. I don't believe Reirin would be mean to the attendant even if she was born to the same circumstances as Kei. There are some things within your control no matter your life but anyone who chooses to lash out at innocent people like the attendant need to properly examine their own conscience and personality. Just because you are being looked down on does not make it alright to look down on others. Or bully others. Even if life is unfair to you, does it mean you can make life harder/unfair for someone else? I can feel pity for Kei but she did bring some things upon herself which were in her ability to control. It's like depression. At one point you can feel sorry for yourself all you like, blame the world and it is the truth that you had a hard life and it's unfair, but you have to also acknowledge ehat is within your control to change for the better.
Instead of wallowing in self pity and jealousy and lashing out at others, Kei needed to develop and change her mindset. And she did have someone who is on her side - Reirin. The manga actually does show her changing starting from the time she apologised genuinely to Reirin and volunteered to risk herself to rebound the curse. That was character development.
The moment anyone lashes out at someone else is the moment they have lost my sympathy. And the moment anyone changes for the better is when they have true character development.
I believe this a nature vs nurture issue you cannot discount the massive fact that reirin was raised and loved, kei on the other hand was not. But it's human to lash out because of your circumstances and try to take something that's not yours I do not condone it but i understand and sympathise with her in that matter after all isn't it incredibly human to try and take something that you don't have?
I understand the nature vs nurture part, but I wouldn't try to hurt someone else to take something of theirs for myself just cause I feel I deserve it more. Unless they are a pos, which Reirin isn't. Personally I wouldn't be able to live with myself even if I gained power at the cost of another's life. So I can't emphathise with Kei in that aspect, that'd what I meant to say. I'm not saying she's not a well written character and nor that I dislike character development. I just find this type of person unlikeable - people who lash out at others and blame the world but themselves. But it also comes from a personal place cause I did have bad experiences with such people.
I believe that alot of people would easily make the switch to free themselves from their circumstances, for you it might seem like it's too much but alot of people would consider it themselves and i understand that, personal reasons can make you dislike a character but that doesn't mean it should be discounted that alot of people might relate and understand what she went through. I empathize with her due to her upbringing being unable to help her cope and understanding why she lashes out-not out of disgust or hatred but mostly towards the only way how she knew on how to defend herself.
Yes I'm not discounting that. I'm just stating that personally I find her to be responsible to a degree for her own actions. That being said, I don't dislike her as a story character, and the author clearly is writing her to have character development. I get that you empathise with such a character and that other people would, but personally I don't. It's a matter of different opinions, not saying I'm right or you're wrong. But in the end, storywise, what matters is Reirin deemed her forgivable so she does get her redemption. It's actually something I like about this manga, cause the author has created a flawed villainess (I'd say that Kei is much more of a true villainess than Reirin). While I may not like such people irl or relate or sympathise with them much, as a written character, they work well in the story.
And that's alright after all how we process and understand character's differ in opinion I may empathize with keigetsu and you might not and that's all right.
I do not understand why the author is not willing to give kei a sliver of a win, like her personal win, in her own body. With how much people hate her I personally feel like kei can't get any win. I mean everyone surrounding her basically has only love for rei, to the point that I am incredibly frustrated that no one is on kei's side except rei. I am profoundly incredibly frustrated that everyone only really cares about rei and i am incredibly sad about how kei doesn't even have anyone on her side that isn't rei. Every single mistake kei makes is snowballed as everyone has this view of her already and rei has to shield and help her everytime. It gets to the point that I NEED HER TO TAKE A WIN. （/TДT)/
I understand that rei is kinda a mary sue but the fact is most of the characters surrounding kei ONLY really cares for rei to the point I feel so frustrated as no one is really there for kei except rei. Everyone gravitates around rei swapped or not to the point that it make me so angry. Kei CANNOT get a break honestly. I have more sympathy towards kei than rei as rei had everything and everyone loving her kei has no one, with how hated she is, it's no wonder she lashes out its probably the only thing she can do, nothing to drag her name when it's already stained and deep in the mud. Rei is able to even be positive because she was never born in the conditions of Kei, she experienced the love and care of her family. Her life was great with thebonly downside being her health and Kei had none of that.
I totally agree with you! Let Kei get a win. I want to see so much more of her development ╥﹏╥
Gurl DIVORCE BABE DIVORCE, housework AND childcare, on you're own? Gurl that's married single mother right there.
It’s inexcusable! What do you mean the grandparents are also useless? They’ve already raised a child before?? They should know something? Literally anything? Hate it when a woman’s struggle is so normalized.
Agree
Housework, childcare AND the office work! Truly insufferable
AND SHE HAS A FULL TIME JOB!!! LIME HELLO?!?!
This is the reason why Japan's birth rate has plummeted.
Wtf they have keys to HIS APARTMENT? WTF IS WRONG WITH HIS FAMILY. Thats trespassing and basically illegal. How the hell did they even get the keys? Who gave them the keys? WHY WOULDN'T HE RETURN THE KEYS TO OTO!!! WTF DUDE!