MSG's Topics (129)

But he isn't pregnant

I know, but I’m allowed to wishfully think it. I did read the novel

The airport scene - soooo cute!

No they don’t… they have three kids- another boy and a girl yeah, but they’re not twins

No, it's dane and chase's brother who have triplet or twin not in the main story but in the after story

Yeah, they are twins. I just read the novel, one boy and one girl

I digress…. They have two children, Pete and Cecil

They have a baby girl too- it’s canon. ZIG- the author- published an official family tree and their third child is included. In the Kiss Me, Liar side stories Josh tell Yeonwoo he’s pregnant again (and there’s an implication that Josh didn’t want another kid, but Chase did and impregnated him anyway). Yeonwoo gushes about how he’d love to have a daughter too. Then, in the Dane/Grayson spinoff- Desire Me if You Can, they repeatedly make reference to Chase/Josh’s THREE children and how they make up the three Miller grandchildren so far

Oooohhhh!! Got it. Thanks for the clarification. I don’t know where I got twins from. I was so sure too. Lmao. The other guy in the comments was probably like, this idiot’s crazy

I know it seems mean to say this, but I agree that he's being real shitty to Hangun. When people are dumb enough to think "Oh I feel guilty for the bad stuff that happened to my partner indirectly because of me (it was the bigoted father's fault) so my solution to make up for that is to leave him" it drives me nuts. No, that's not gonna solve anything, as a matter of fact it will cause MORE confusion and trauma.
Leewon still not taking responsibility responsibility for what will actually help them both live a good life where neither of them has to hide themselves away, he's choosing to stay in that cycle of repression and bigotry, while Hangun braces it all on his own.
And yes, part of that is his depression affecting his cognitive functions, but at some point he's got to listen to Hangun himself and not stubbornly decide for the both of them that this obviously terrible choice is best for them.

This is one of the stories where I honestly wish Hangun would move on. It's too much for a person to handle without getting dragged down themselves.

Thank you for stating it more eloquently than I ever could. I held my breath for a second, cause I thought you were gonna attack me for stating my opinion. I’ve read others comments on this site and they can be pretty brutal to one another if their opinions aren’t aligned. So, thanks again

the way I see it, leewon's pretty traumatized, BOTH of them went through very painful shit not just hangun. I think that him meeting that fucker and finding out the truth and being forced to remember events back then was too much. and the nightmares?

I mean, he has ptsd, he is depressed, he feels really guilty especially now, and his first response was to isolate himself basically and say some shit to push hangun away which is unhealthy and shitty but that's a coping mechanism basically, unfortunately

they never addressed what's happened didn't they? well it's about damn time and I'm sure that's what should finally happen for them to be able to move on

and 'just drop his depressed sulky ass and find someone better' is kinda a very cruel thing to say. even depressed sukly asses deserve to be loved lol

reread last chapter again, and leewon just takes time to find out more and process everything, not being shitty to hangun on purpose

Yes, but they aren't owed to put one's own mental and physical health to the backburner indefinitely so the heavily depressed person can "process things". There are ways to do so without actively and constantly hurting and confusing someone who has and is also going through alot of challenges.

that is not what I said but okay let's unpack

I agree that nobody should have to sacrifice their own well-being for a relationship, but I don't think that's at odds with saying depressed people deserve love and compassion

that said, I'm kinda confused about how this applies to leewon here. was he constantly hurting and confusing hangun? weren't things going relatively well between them before all of this came up? and isn't this more of a trauma response to being confronted with everything that happened back then, rather than him being heavily depressed and making hangun bear the consequences of it?

the way you put it makes it sound like leewon has been treating hangun terribly throughout their relationship, when that's not really how I read it. hangun chose to reach out to him after all these years and kept pursuing him, too. I don't think it's fair to frame the situation as though hangun has just been putting up with leewon, or as though leewon is somehow at fault for struggling to process everything that's happened

I also don't really like framing it as him being dumb for reacting this way. knowing rationally that something wasn't your fault doesn't automatically make the guilt go away, especially when trauma is involved. he can be hurting Hangun unconsciously, and I think there's a difference between criticizing that response and acting like he's just being stupid or stubborn

So, when is rationality expected to kick in? Never, as long as a person is depressed, everything is and remains an emotional reaction? Then how should another person be expected to live and withstand that behavior in a partner? Also, a dumb choice is a dumb choice regardless of the reasoning behind it. I don't think Leewon is an overall dumb person and that's the full extent of what defines him. You're being pendantic about an expression I used and choose to misunderstand my whole point, which is what I already mentioned in my first comment.

And yes, it does apply to Leewon, the fact that in their relationship so far Hangun is the one expected to give him time and space in his very specific terms, while Hangun's needs are hardly addressed. We can claim that he's just being accommodating for the person he loves and it doesn't negatively affect him, but the truth is it's hardly healthy for his side since the reciprocation for his own needs from Leewon's side just isn't there, the most glaring example being that he isn't asking Hangun himself about what he needs in this current situation and try to find common ground to accommodate both.

It's expected that the cognitive functions of someone experiencing depression will be affected, including emotional cognition. So the guilt he's feeling is overwhelming to the point he believes it unfair to have a place next to the person that he hurt and he should step away, which leads to his avoidant behavior. Now, even though prior to this event being unraveled he didn't mistreat Hangun, it is ESPECIALLY cruel for Hangun to be met with this shift and rejection.
Even if it takes a while for him to process things and can't perfectly manage how he reacts towards Hangun when he first found out, it's still a choice he's making to push him away in that manner, without any reassurance or mutual discussion about what "needing to be alone" actually means.

I agree OP Mc is dumb as hell

I think the way you phrased it (even admitting it yourself that it sounds mean) implies that a person doing such a thing is dumb, so that's where the other person is coming from. Your intentions might be others, but at the end of the day that's what you said, so you can't blame the other person for trying to make you see where what you said could be interpreted as too cruel.

That being said, I understand your perspective and I think that in real life relationships, the emotional burden that mentally unstable partners put on their other partners is often minimized and excused, therefore never solved with action. On the other hand, even people who are perfectly stable have bad days, where they don't act the most rationally.

In this fictional instance, both of them distanced themselves from each other previously, because they both felt guilty for what had happened to them while they were together. They both had that trauma response in the past, so they both seem to have developed an avoidant response when trauma is brought up.
However, Lee Won has been very active in his pursuit of a new relationship with Han Gun, so I don't think this misstep could be deemed a case of him not even trying to get better. And while they haven't talked yet, Han Gun knows about his trauma, and he's understanding of the logic of PTSD, where sometimes, after a good chunk of time where the person gets better, there's a wound that gets uncovered seemingly setting back the progress. He's willing to put up with it, because of his infatuation, love, personal experience and empathy.
This avoidant response is not that abrupt to be shocking, the trauma has been literally digged up. The way Lee Won moves forward from here will define whether he's able to work on it already or he's still stuck and unwilling to move on. It's too early in my opinion to define this instance as Lee Won "stringing Han Gun along" without any intention to get better. And Han Gun is really perceptive, he knows what's going on, so him staying is an implicit agreement on his side.

But again, I see what you are saying being applied in real life, where partners, especially narcissistic ones, tend to use their mental issues as an excuse for their inconstant behavior, but with no real intention to work on it.

brilliantly said and I completely agree with you! that's what I was trying to convey too

Focus on the comic and not on me. This is a webtoon, not real life. I don’t need your casual input regarding my opinion. Just stick to the fictional works please. Thanks

I guess he just needed time to sort out his mind and feelings because thats a lot to take in one night. He had ptsd because of this... now dealing with all the fact and truth that unknown for him while figuring his own feeling will take more time.
He knew Han Gun was not at fault too..
Anyway they still end up together for life