How the hell does this shit have a higher rating than My Beloved Oppressor??
It's the smut, isn't it? It has to be the smut. It isn't even good smut, either, lol.
Uhm... What are you getting at?
Uhm... Don't worry about it?
"This shit"? "The smut"?
If that’s genuinely all you noticed, then yeah... I get why you think that’s the reason for its rating. ╮(￣▽￣)╭
And calling this ‘smut’ is kind of funny, honestly. The manga barely shows anything explicit... it’s soft, romantic, and mostly implied.
UTOT isn’t perfect, but it has emotional depth, character growth, and a story people connect with. But sure, reduce it to ‘smut’ if that’s the only lens you’ve got.
It says more about your reading than about the story.
Okay, you want the real reason I think the story is bad? Because clearly I struck a nerve deep enough for you to start psychoanalyzing what my opinion of a romance novel supposedly says about me as a person, lol.
UTOT is a poorly written romance because the author relies heavily on sex and grand romantic gestures as a substitute for actual communication between the main couple, and she drags this out for basically the majority of the story. If the point was to depict two broken people growing through mutual love and understanding, then why the hell is it that only one of the protagonists actually develops? And no, Riftan's "character arc" isn't just around the corner because he basically doesn't HAVE one. He stagnates throughout Book 1 and arguably regresses in Book 2. His so-called arc culminates in him stonewalling Maxi for most of Book 2, pushes her away while forcing her to carry the emotional despair he felt during her absence as if she's at all responsible for his feelings, and ultimately ends with him pathetically begging and groveling for Maxi not to leave him again after spending an entire week sexual assaulting her and forcing reconciliation on his own terms. Rather than deconstructing his behavior, the story repeatedly explains his actions through his trauma, abandonment issues, and obsessive attachment to Maxi. Instead of challenging Riftan, his actions are contextualized, softened, and framed as sympathetic, and the readers are just expected to somehow feel sorry for a character that refuses to slef-reflect and grow up, lol.
The story has good moments. I've never denied that. Where it completely falls apart, however, is in the romance, which is kind of a problem when the romance is the central pillar of the entire narrative. The relationship is already built on a shaky foundation because what we're constantly told through the story is "love" often comes across as little more than physical attraction and obsession. THAT'S why I narrowed down my assessment to "it's just smut," BECAUSE THAT'S ALL THEIR RELATIONSHIP IS BUILT ON.
Tell me, what does Riftan actually like about Maxi beyond her physical appearance? You can't say he loves her independence or anything relating to her personality because every time Maxi asserts her agency or tries to make decisions for herself, it results in conflict between the two. You can't say he respects her autonomy because the story repeatedly shows otherwise. Ffs, Princess Agnes has to literally spell it out to Maxi that Riftan treats her more like a child than a wife. So what exactly is this supposedly profound love built on?
I guess the only aspect of her personality he genuinely likes is his perception of her innocence and naivety, which, frankly, feels pretty misogynistic of him. He seems most comfortable when she's meek, dependent, and obedient. The moment she starts developing confidence, asserting herself, or making choices he doesn't approve of, their relationship begins to unravel. I'm sure I don't have to spell out why this is a problem? If your love only functions when your partner is passive and compliant, while constantly forcing sex onto them, what exactly are you in love with: the person, or the version of them that's easiest to control?
And that's ultimately why the story fails. The story sucks because the romance sucks. If that bothers you, tell someone who cares. Just don't act like criticism of a fictional character is some deep reflection of my moral character. Don't bother responding with your own essay about why you personally love the series because I don't care, lol.
this is so nicely put. riftan has the potential to be such amazing character if only they’d hold him accountable. it’s the fact that it’s literally explained to us why the way he is and even acknowledged that the way he treats maximillian is flawed and yet they do nothing substantial to sort him out! just the weird justification of “oh it’s cause he’s super protective”
THANK YOU! Someone gets it. Zero accountability, zero character growth, and the author expects the ready to sympathize with him because his problematic actions all stem from his unresolved trauma and abandonment issues? Bro, fuck off with that mess and fix yourself! There's only so much sympathy I can feel for a character before the narrative starts using trauma as an excuse for their appalling behavior. Why the hell is it Maxi's responsibility to manage not only Riftan's emotional volatility but also his own personal baggage when she's already had to undergo her own self-improvement IN SPITE of her husband! Why does it always have to be Maxi that has to meant this fucking manchild halfway?
Wow why r u getting jelly here? Everyone have their own preferences. Why r u talking shit here while praising your own fave. Rude.
Did you just ask why someone is sharing their opinion in a comment section
Yes. Why would you talk about other manhwa in this comment section. Their fave is not even that good.
Alr sure
I’M SO HAPPY YOU’RE SAYING THIS LMAOAO i’m so tired of some utot fans < saying this as one myself! mind you. i adore maxi, imo she and some other characters are so well written which is why it baffles me that the same grace isn’t extended to riftan. i think another huge problem with this adaptation is that they love to tell you and not show you. like you’re telling me there’s this grand romance and you’re taking me through the motions but i do not see Sshiitttttt. what i do see is an insecure man micromanaging his wife!
Because I fucking can?? Like, walk away from my comment if it bothers you, lol. Keep enjoying your dub-con/non-con smut slop if you want, lol, but saying MBO isn't "that good" compared to Under the Oak Tree is some heavy copium, hon.
Guess there's more beefing in the comments again lol. Idk who to bet on this time but I'll sit back and watch for now
Is this shit as bad as Under the Oak Tree or Swan's Grave? I swear I've already been seeing questionable shit about the ML in this one, and I've had just about enough of toxic "romance" manhwa MLs.
no, I think it's actually good. the ml become more loveable time by time
This one is a lot better than Riftan. And I love Under the Oak Tree novel. I'm so glad I found this one as well!
I can see UtOT is testing many of us LOL Together in the struggle
i would rec ‘a stepmothers marchen’ for u
Nah, the story had so much potential. Maxi is amazing and adorable, probably one of the more realistic FLs I've seen in the genre. Riftan is the fucking problem. Inconsiderate, selfish, domineering, borderline abusive, obnoxiously horny, I could fucking go on. I wish the story centered more on Maxi and Ruth. Their chemistry is adorably hilarious that I honestly could see them as either friends or a couple. It certainly has more chemistry than whatever tf Maxi and Riftan have. It's gross.
Thanks! I'll give it a read!
Nah don't compare it to Swan's Grave. I ate up that story too and I love it, but that shit is unhinged to the max and legit freaks me out although I've gotten till half of this and it's lowkey making me uneasy too now. But nothing as much as Swan's Grave.
is UtOT bad? it's on my list... I don't mind spoilers
Not necessarily. I personally love it. But riftan character is a bit... protective to the point controlling. He's not that bad. But I love how Maxi always try to upgrade herself. Get out from her comfort zone with Ruth help. I read the novel. Not sure about the manwha tho
UtOT is at a very bleak part of the story rn and it won’t get happier or romantic for a long time.
I think after this arc concludes, I'll officially drop this crap story, and go back to reading shoujo mangas, lol. Too many manhwas romanticizing abusive relationships and I'm tired of it. Like, shoujos were infamous for doing this too in the 90s and 2000s, but at least there were outliers that actually had wholesome dynamics, and by the 2010s we saw less and less of that toxicity in shoujo. Korean culture better catch up with the times already.
Come on! Come on, come oooon! We're almost there! We're almost at the part where Maxi leaves Riftan's dog ass (albeit, for his sake, unfortunately) and leaves him in tears like the pathetic little bitch boy he is
That's the canon ending for me. That is MY canon ending, lol. She leaves and never returns because she realizes she can make a life outside her abusive marriage by being a kick-ass mage instead.
You are so real
Damn straight, lol. Story should've ended there, or it should've gotten canceled sooner imo.
You got so much energy tarnishing the reputation of a man who saved Maxi, instead of directing that energy to the abusive father. Maxi wouldn’t have realized her power or become the kick ass mage if she has not met Riftan. Guess you prefer her being stuck in her dad’s castle constantly abused. I wonder who he would’ve sold her to if Riftan has not come along??? Elaborate on why you think Riftan is abusive….
What?? How has riftan been abusive??
I'm targeting Riftan because Maxi doesn't live with her *father* anymore. At least, not until Riftan made the big brain move to send her away with Agnes, which left her vulnerable to her father's clutches, and was subsequently kidnapped by him. Ultimately, who has Maxi spent most of the story with? Yes, Riftan. And during that time, instead of providing a safe and protective environment for his wife, REGARDLESS IF HE WAS AWARE OF HER ABUSE OR NOT, all I've seen is a turbulent marriage between an emotionally volatile and immature asshole and traumatized woman who adapts to her husband's aggression and intensity. Be it through emotional or sexual intimacy, she hardly had much agency of her own, and still doesn't because everything she does is for her inconsiderate husband, even if it comes at the cost of her sense of self. Take their wedding night for example. I had to confirm this myself because of the spoilers I read here and yes, Riftan does in fact rape Maxi on their wedding night. The worst part is that this sexual aggression and coercion continues well into season 3, when Maxi has been conditioned and fully adapted to Riftan's sexuality, but without getting to explore her own sexuality first without Riftan's influence. Add in the constant verbal assaults, the rough grabbing of her shoulders whenever they're arguing, or tossing her around when he's bitching at her, like a father scolding his daughter—temper tantrums and silent treatments abound, how is this not a volatile relationship lol? How is this NOT abuse?
Adding to what the other user mentioned, one thing that I feel needs to be clearly said is this:
Repeated pressure or forceful persistence for sexual intimacy—despite hesitation from the partner—is sexual coercion. Sexual coercion is rape and, in romantic or marital relationships, is a form of sexual abuse. Coercion means no consent, and no consent means rape. This was exactly the extent of Maxi and Riftan's sexual intimacy from seasons 1-3; Riftan coercing Maxi into sleeping with him until she eventually—hesitantly—complied, under weak excuses such as that she had "seduced him."
I said this in another comment of mine, but I'll say it again here. Maxi and Riftan’s relationship is not healthy and stays unhealthy for the rest of the story. There isn’t a healthy, mutual foundation there. What you have instead is two people trying to fill emotional voids through each other:
Riftan channels his insecurities, trauma, and need for control into possessiveness and sexual intensity. Maxi then interprets that intensity as "affection" because it makes her feel seen and wanted in a way she’s never experienced before.
That is not love; that's codependency.
I get why you see it that way, but comparing him to the Duke is a stretch. The Duke hurt her to break her, Riftan is a man who literally doesn’t know how to handle his own intensity or his fear of losing her. About the wedding night, reading it as gRape ignores the actual narrative. It was a messy, high tension night between two strangers in a forced marriage, but the story shows them building actual desire later. He’s volatile, yeah but he’s also the only person who actually values her life. You’re acting like he’s a villain, but he’s a traumatized person who was never taught how to be a husband. If you actually read and understood the novel, Maxi's internal monologue shows her fear is of the unknown and her own inadequacy, rather than Riftan intentionally forcing her. Riftan sent her with Agnes specifically to protect her from the political fallout and the Duke, not to throw her to the wolves. It was a tactical error, not a malicious one. Riftan really loves Maxi, he will not put her in harm’s way. He’s a commander of knights whos constantly in life or death situations. Yes he’s rough around the edges, but he’s consistently shown that loves and he will die for Maxi. Maxi is the one who eventually leaves him to go to the World Tower to become a if Riftan was as abusive as you say, she never would’ve had the spine to do that and return to him, still wanting to be with him.
First of all, you are applying modern therapeutic standards to a dark medieval fantasy. Maxi and Riftan both start as deeply broken people. If they had a healthy, mutual foundation from chapter one, there wouldn’t be a story. The coercion you’re describing is often written as a high tension trope common in this genre, it’s about their lack of communication skills, not a lack of love. They are learning how to be human through each other because they were both treated like objects by everyone else. It’s not abuse and if it’s abuse as you want to claim, that ignores the fact that they are actively trying to outgrow these toxic cycles throughout the series. If this was truly a cycle of abuse and zero consent, Maxi never would have left for the World Tower. She chose her own path and her own education over Riftan’s direct pleas for her to stay. That is the moment the codependency breaks. She goes away for three years to become her own person specifically so she can stand on equal footing with him. You’re judging their rest of the story based on their lowest points, but the whole second half of the novel is about them deconstructing those exact unhealthy habits you’re pointing out.
Because all we get ARE their lowest points in the story. Riftan pleading Maxi to stay also does not mark anything because he never takes accountability for what he did to her, both before and after she left him. I'm not gonna argue about this topic because I keep seeing I keep seeing the same weak excuse of "modern sensibilities" being tossed around, even though that alone should not prevent Riftan from reflecting and adjusting his attitude towards the woman he's allegedly "loved" since childhood, especially when other male characters have treated Maxi with far more respect.
The other guys around treats Maxi with more respect because none of them are in a high stakes, traumatized marriage with her. For example, it’s easier for Ruth to be respectful when he’s not blinded by the same obsessive fear Riftan has. Riftan definitely has a long way to go with self reflection, but that slow painful growth is why a lot of people including me stick with the novel. It’s all good. This story is definitely not for everyone. I just see it as a gritty depiction of two people who don’t know how to love properly yet. We’re clearly looking at it through different lenses, so we’ll just have to leave it there. Thanks for the discussion and your feedback of this story.
Intent doesn't erase impact, and he's fucked up with Maxi MULTIPLE TIMES, and never properly apologizes or takes accountability for what he does to her. Ever. Like Rabbitmage said, him breaking down and groveling for Maxi not to leave him again doesn't even come close to taking accountability for stonewalling her for basically the entire first half of Book 2 and then ultimately "reconciling" ON HIS TERMS after having locked her in a room with him and SA'd her for a whole fucking week. Also, you could still be abusive and grant freedom to the person you are harming so as long as the "freedom" is on the person's terms. And even still, you're forgetting the pity party he was throwing himself (which felt a lot like emotional manipulation for Maxi not to leave him) the night Maxi made her decision to leave. He "let her leave," but only after emotionally breaking her, tf? So all of that emotional manipulation, gaslighting, and borderline sexual abuse after telling her years before she left him that her actions were self-serving and essentially telling her she was selfish and not leaving for his sake, just to spare himself of his emotions while completely disregarding how his cruel words would harm Maxi, never even fucking care one bit considering her never apologizes for what he said. The guy's an asshole, and honestly irredeemable. He crossed the line when he raped her, and there are no other ways to see what he did as anything but rape. He could've gone about what he did in multiple other ways, such as faking the act entirely the moment Maxi began to cry for him to stop, but even with him being clearly aware of Maxi’s discomfort (Yes, I read his stupid POV story and it does not justify his shitty behavior), he continued his assault on her, and I don't fuck with that. He was forced into marriage, not sex. He raped her, plain and simple. If you need to start talking about nuance for a scene that depicts explicit sexual assault, that's when you need to start questioning what you're really defending and why.
I don’t want to engage in an extended argument over a fictional story written by someone. We can continue going back and forth but in the end, we will still have different opinions. We can just agree to disagree. Thanks for your responses.
I read spoilers for the novel of this one, and holy shit, the ending and the ML are somehow WORSE than both Under the Oak Tree and Cry, or Better Yet, Beg. I HATE this guy.
give me spoilers pls
(Spoilers for those in the comments)
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So apparently fron what I've read, the male lead was apparently testing the female lead, he wanted to see if she would choose to be with him willingly. Anna tried to leave back to her original world, but she's caught and Roth takes her ability to walk, so she can never leave him. He marries her again and she has to use wheelchair for the rest of her life.
Making her disabled was not enough for him. He won't let anyone else but him operate her wheelchair, but he prefers to just carry her in his arms to make her completely dependent on him. She can't go literally anywhere without him, so most of the time she has to stay alone in her room and wait for him to take her out. She gives up and accepts her situation because she now believes that she deserves it for leaving him and their son.
oh what the hell… ty for this spoiler
These comments are so... tf? Riftan acts like a major prick to Maxi (as usual), literally admits that he wanted to fuck her even after seeing her wounded and bloodied, yet the only takeaway was "YAS QUEEN! MOUNT YOUR STALLION HUSBAND!" As if Maxi's behavior wasn't also weirdly out of character for her.
Y'all are so grossly horny, it's not even funny. I know I'm gonna get hella down voted because I'm basically calling out the majority of you readers, but idgaf lol. I now understand why so many people sing this story's praises, and I was right. It's just the smut and nothing more because the romance sucks ass, the ML is a piece of shit, and anyone who believes this relationship is anything BUT toxic need to lean off the copium and take off their rose-tinted glasses. Nah, I can't wait for Book 2 to read through all of the frustrated comments and opinion changes about Riftan being a selfish asshole lol.
No you're right though, wtf does he mean he wanted to sleep with her even when she was all whipped and bloody?? Tf??
Right? Like, does no one see what's wrong with this?? I already know I'm going to get a wave of angry readers telling me Maxi and Riftan’s words and actions are "realistic" or have some "deeper meaning," but I call horseshit, lol. The author clearly set out to write a smut-driven romance but also tried stuffing in heavy angst without really knowing how to balance the two. So you end up with moments like this recent chapter that are supposed to feel serious being undercut by characters acting completely out of sync with how they're usually written, or saying genuinely questionable things—like wanting to raw dog your wife right after witnessing the bloody aftermath of her father beating her.
About which scene are we talking about the one where we saw that Riftan first got encountered with maxi being whipped ? Or is it the very first meeting of them where she had those whip scars on her back? Because I think it’s related to when they met not the newest encounter because that would be VERY DISGUSTING even for him I know he’s a total mess to her but I hope he changes that