Ashley is accumulating L's. Bro, the fact that he can't read emotions doesn't mean he does not feel them, my guy. Rather than just learning to emulate emotion, wouldn't it have been better to, I don't know, teach him about what emotions are in the first place? What triggers them? Helping him understand emotions by understanding his own first? But I guess that is too much to ask of someone who is also emotionally stunted.
Also, lmao at Grayson. He is really out here thinking he is a master at reading people when this dude cannot even tell when others are literally planning his downfall and wishing him death behind a smile, much less understand that Dane pitied/felt bad for him. The delusion is strong in this one. I do love my dumb maniac puppies.
P.S.: NICE TITTIES DANE.
How can Ashley teach it when he no longer feels emotions? Ashley did try everything though. Took him to every hospital and Doctors there is. It was disappointment after disappointment. It was like getting their hopes up only for it to come crashing down. So when they learned that Greyson is starting to feel tor Dane at first Ashley doesn’t want to get his hopes up again for his only child who still has no partner to control him with. But then when he learned it was true he assigned guards for Dane because amongst his children only Greyson has the closest possibility of going down Dominic route.
But that is my point. He failed Grayson because of his own emotional ineptitude. He projected his owns flaws onto his son without even trying. Not to mention Ashley feels enough that he clearly loves Koi and dotes on Bliss, so what's stopping him from trying to get to know his children? He even admits in this novel that he never had a conversation with Grayson. NOT EVEN A CONVERSATION. The communication was non existant, so how could he so condifently deduce that Grayson was doomed and only other people external to the family would be able to fix him? That excuse of 'oh well he took him to every doctor and psychologist' doesn't work because that is like a parent throwing money at a problem expecting that will magically fix whatever is wrong. Clearly none of that worked, not one of those doctors truly helped Grayson the way he needed. And on top of that Ashley threw him into the arms of that freaky ass doctor to be a guinea pig. Also, it's precisely because Ashley is a dominant alpha and Grayson's father that Ashley was in the best position to be a role model for Grayson and help him. But no. He did everything but try to connect with his own child. To be so uncurious about your sons is crazy. And I get that people love Ashley and Koi as a couple, but it's undeniable that they did everything wrong as parents.
How many novels of Zig did you read? I read the novel and some of what you said are not even in the novel. Tell me about it if you read all the novels that Zig wrote pertaining to that universe including the Kiss me series not just the If You Can series. And if you are also reading the Deflower Me If You Can. Unless you read everything you’ll know that Ashley did try. The illustration in the recent chapter pertaining to how he was thought was not how it was in the novel. In the novel it wasn’t just the teachers who were involved. Ashley is directly involved with them. After work he teaches the children personally. The whole picture of how Ashley parents them doesn’t summarize in just one single novel, it is explained to each novels of the If You Can Series. Even in Deflower Me If You Can. It was explained there why Ashley sent Bliss away and how Ashley told that it was just temporary till only all his alpha children find their mate. There are things that are not directly explained in the story. You have to read everything to get the whole picture.
Why Ashley enter politics, why even though all his children are now adults and have a family of their own Ashley still have security team for them. All of these aren’t explained in one single novel.
Litetally nothing about what you said negates any of my points. I've read Kiss me liar, Desire me if you can and Kiss me if you can. Regardless of how many books I've read, there is no info that redeems them as parents. "He hires personal security for them" so what? Does that make up for the abuse or neglect? Even if Ashley was better with Bliss, that's because he finally got the omega son he wanted that resembled Koi. He did not want to have alpha children and it shows. Which is fine, but then if you do end up having them, at least have the minimum decency of properly taking care of them. There is no excuse for not sitting down to get to know your children. It took this man nearly 30 years to realize his son had emotions. Dane, who only knew Grayson for months, did more for him and understood him better than his family, therapists and psychologists without even trying that hard. He just listened to Grayson. There is also no excuse for locking the children in the basement to discipline them. Ordering them not to do things is not teaching them. Also what part of what I'm saying is not in the novel? I was just rereading Desire me if you can and when Ashley and Koi visit Grayson after finding out Dane is living with him, there is a scene where Ashley stays alone with Grayson in a room and in his inner monologue he mentions that in that moment he realized he rarely had real conversations with Grayson because of how awkward and silent it all was. This is chapter 139 btw. Also, when Ashley asks about Grayson and if the whole picture debacle is uncomfortable for him, Grayson is immediately shocked and doesn't know how to react, demonstrating how unusual, if not outright implausible it is for Ashley to be asking about his feelings and well being. And then Ashley goes in his head "Mybe I have been prejudiced about him" "Maybe I've been too harsh with him". Later on, he even admits that he made a mistake when it comes to his treatment and understnding of Grayson. He was too stuck projecting Dominic over Grayson to see him as his own person, for who he truly was, and that he always had potential to be better. Aditionally, I have many complaints about the manhwa but this chapter was actually faithful. Reread chapter 45 of the novel again, bc in it Grayson states, just like in the manhwa, that he was taught by teachers specialized in acting and psychology. Not by Ashley himself. It's incredible how easy it is for people to recognize how bad the Miller family was for Chase but when it comes to Grayson people go through all these hoops to justify how his abuse was actually perfectly fine and Ashley was right in everything he did.
Well newsflash you are just at the tip of the iceberg with the story. You still haven’t even read Ashley and Koi novel, Dominic and Ashley’s novel, which has both the explanation and the catalyst why everything is how they are now. I bet if you read it you’ll realized why Ashley is the way he is. Why he he’s not thrilled of having Alpha children who looks like him. Do you really think Ashley even like himself or his phenotype? I suggest read everything. You are reacting way too early. Go to Ridi and read all the novel it is just 100 korean won for each chapter of the novel. If you do you’ll realize Ashley is far from worse there are tons who are hundred times worse than him. It is kind ot hard yo explain to those who haven’t read the whole novels so just read it to understand. I’ll even give you the title:
Kiss Me series
Kiss Me Liar
Kiss the Scumbag
Kiss Me Stranger
Kiss My Grits
If You Can Series
Eat Me Up If You Can
Lick Me Up If You Can
Kiss Me If You Can
Desire Me If You Can
Runaway If You Can
Deflower Me If You Can (On going)
Again, telling me to go read the novels is not an argument against anything of what I'm saying. The explanation does not justify his actions. It gives context but it does not make his parenting any better. Especially when Ashley has to recognize in the end that Grayson was better than himself and Dominic, so his approach was wrong from the start (and when he should have been looking at Nathaniel instead). You're admitting yourself why he is not a good parent. He hates his phenotype and did not want alpha children. Therefore he projected all of his issues onto his children and he only had them because of Koi's whims. No regard for the consequences whatsoever. He is not a piece of shit like Dominic, sure, but that's a low bar. And this is not about whether I'm claiming he is a character that can't be liked or even that he is the worst person in this fictional universe. I love Ilay Riegrow from Passion, a character that makes all of Zig's toxic semes (even Caesar) look like innocent babies. I'm just saying if you truly like a character you have to accept them as they are in text, with the good and the bad. Love Ashley as much as you want but don't whitewash his parenting. As much as I'm obviously biased towards Grayson, I like the character as he is, meaning I can't hide the sun with a thumb and pretend he hasn't been a cruel and mean son of a bitch his whole life. He is not a good person and he harmed a lot of people physically and psychologically, regardless of his intentions. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that actually he was justified in what he did to Chase. He had his reasoning for making that decision, for sure, which is different from what many readers would assume at first (in the sense that he is not an evil mastermind Eizen level), but it doesn't make it any less fucked up. Likewise, Ashley and Koi did not do their best for their family really. And it's fine to admit that. It doesn't make you any less of a fan. Cute couple, shitty parents. Hence, why we have all these dysfunctional adults that needed their romantic partners to give them all the parenting they never got lmao.
Ok dot. Just say you don’t have the means to read all the novels, plain and simple. I was telling you to read all of them to know the story because it goes deeper than what none novel readers think. It is like Kiss me if you can Hate Greyson all over again. You people hated Greyson then because you still haven’t read his story but when this came out you start hating Ashley. I bet when Ashley’s story comes out your hate will shift to a different direction. The reason why I stopped explaining a long time ago is because it drained the heck out of my trying to reason out why Greyson was like that to all those Greyson haters in Kiss Me If You Can. I thought if the novel gets an adaptation maybe their perspective and thoughts will change well just like what I thought. Anyways, I’m pretty sure when Koi and Ashley’s novel gets an adaptation you hypocrites will shift the hate and blame to another character. I won’t argue with that because Domimic and Juliet both deserve the hate. Have you ever wonder why majority of those novel readers who read the entire series has a different perspective than those who didn’t? It is because we see the whole picture. People tend to judge base only with what they know. Right now you are judging the character base on the 3 out of 10 novels? You didn’t even read half of it. Anyways say what you want to say. Hate the character all you want, I’m pretty sure their story will get an adaptation because there will be more people curious about them. It is better if they do Dominic first which I doubt.
You have a very serious reading comprehension problem and no aguments against anything. "You people hated Grayson in Kiss me if you can". You people who? I've liked Grayson since Kiss me liar. He was the only seme that interested me. I'm a red/black flag lover. I don't care about characters being "problematic". The second novel I decided to read was Desire me if you can and the last one I read was Kiss me if you can. So no, whatever imaginary ghost you're fighting in your head, I'm not that. Also I just told you in my previous comment (learn to read please) that one of my favorite characters ever is Ilay Riegrow, who is a murderer, a rapist, a mercenary, a terrorist and everyting that ends with ist. It's fiction. Who cares? So this isn't about me being scandalized at Ashley or anything like that. I'm just willing to see his flaws where you just indiscriminately defend him. Which is something that is intelectually disingenuous. Let's use an example: I love Ilay Riegrow. Just because I love him I'm not going to come to the internet to fight with other people in order to convince them that he is a green flag and a sweet innocent angel. And I'm not gonna do that because I'm not going to lie about how the character is written and I because like him as he is. I like him because he is all of those horrible things. If ai didn't want him to be bad I would go read something like Tadaima Okaeri or Sasaki to Miyano. I will only argue about mis conceptions about the character but I'm not going to tell people that two plus two equals nine, which is what you're doing. There is no context that makes the whole locking in the basement business acceptable. Two wrongs do not make a right.
Oh yeah, forgot to mention. Lick me up if you can has been out for a long time and it's available everywhere. It's not that I can't read it, it's that I won't because I don't care about Ashley and Koi in particular. And because of your attitude, I'm even less interested in reading about them. But even people who have read all of the books agree that Ashley and Koi are not good parents. I always thought that people who uncritically defended their characters did not exist and antis were simply inventing shit just to keep justifying their cancelling campaigns, but sadly you have demonstrated they do exist xD.
Then don’t read it, it’s not like you are a loss to Zig. You are probably not even buying her works so what contribution do you even have for the author’s work? Even if you don’t read it people who buys and support her work would still read and buy it if it get a webtoon adaptation. If ever there will be one for Koi and Ashley I hope I won’t see you in that Manhwa’s comment section or else you really are a hypocrite. You was like eat her own words.
I didn't read the novel, you think I'm going to read the manhwa lmao. I only engage with the comment section of stories that I actually read. Also, none of those things invalidate my arguments. I hope you realize that your entire line of argumentation for defending Ashley is "oh your honor he was traumatized by his father, therefore that makes it okay when he abuses his sons because at least he is not so bad". "Ilay raping Taeui is not so bad because at the end they end up together' type of excuse lmao.
Now people can stop asking why Bit chan is doing this. Now you know. He is just horribly obsessed. And in later chapters you'll see that he literally fell in goon at first sight with MC. The MC was so attractive to him that without even interacting he had Bit chan fantasizing all the time about making him cry and dominating him. As he stated in this chapter, he just couldn't accept that while MC was the only thing he could think about, Bit chan wasn't even a speck in his radar. So in his mind the only way to get his love was to execute operation Stockholm Syndrome xD
FELL IN GOON IM DEAD
It is true though xD His dih throbbed first than his heart when he saw the MC in uni for the first time lmao.
Ok I'm going to be extremely pedantic and annoying, but hey, maybe there are other people who share the same thoughts. So here goes: I really did not like the way this scene in particular was handled. No hate to the artist or anyone involved in the making of this manhwa, but It was just too clean, leaning on saccharine with colors way too bright for the tone that was required. I don't remember Dane grabbing Grayson's arm for example as he is asking him if he was abused or not. In the novel, despite Dane being horrified at the thought of Grayson being abused as a child, is upset and disturbed by Grayson's nonchalant demeanor and words. There is tension and distance between them despite being close because they're fundamentally not understanding one another. There is great emphasis in showcasing Grayson's otherworldliness. He is meant to give off this uncanny valley aura, where he is smiling as he is talking about abuse in a normalized fashion, unable to comprehend why everyone is mad at him. In a way, it's as if Dane is speaking to an alien. That is how disconnected and unaware Grayson comes across in this conversation. And on Grayson's side of things, he is like a computer given wrong inputs. He thinks he is in control and understands the situation he is in only to find that he cannot predict/understand the others' behaviors, feelings and reactions. He doesn't understand why Dane scolds him, beats him then looks at him with an emotion he cannot recognize. He is the odd one out and therefore he is at a loss about how to act other than being honest about his intentions. This is the first time Grayson's mask breaks to show the emptiness behind it, the lack of understanding of social norms, human relations and even himself. Pathethic, sad and scary. That is how Grayson should be portrayed in this moment. It is that combination that makes Dane at the end of the interaction disgusted and done with him as much as he is concerned. And I dont't think this chapter managed to capture all of that in the slightest. Plus, showing Dane imagining little Grayson was too on the nose and unsubtle for my liking. But anyways, that is just me. Feel free to disagree or flame me.
I just wish i had this energy for my work , i envy youuuu for real keep up (●'◡'●)ﾉ
"Desire Me If You Can" has always been an extremely difficult work to adapt—not just because of the illustrations, but the adaptation process itself. The artist needs to create beautiful artwork and appealing chibis, possess a knack for comedy, and deliver expressive character designs. YP has all of that, yet still struggles to fully capture every aspect of the source material. It is particularly hard to nail the novel's atmosphere; conveying certain emotions requires the scriptwriter and—especially—the artist to be not merely good, but true masters of their craft. Pulling this off is even more challenging given the tight weekly schedule for each chapter, so cut them some slack. Of all the teams that have worked on adaptations of Zig's novels, this one still handles the material with the most skill, even if the result isn't perfect.
Agree with you, after reading novel I also imagined this scene another way, and while reading manhwa I thought this scene didn't capture some things and feelings from novel this and there.
Also in novel it was pointed out their collegaues heard their conversation and were kinda gloomy about this, while in manhwa it wasn't shown
Lol thanks. I'm just here screaming my thoughts into the void. Old man yelling at clouds type shit xD
That's fair. And I mostly agree. Like I said, I acknowledge I'm being annoying about this. I know it's impossible to fully translate the contents of the book, but I just wish the scene had been darker, more tense.
Yeah. I had to talk about this scene because it's one of my favorites in the novel and a pivotal moment for the characters overall, so I was curious to see how it would be translated from book to manhwa. While I was disappointed, I don't think it's horrible or anything, but it does make me fear a bit for other serious moments down the line.
Here I come, all excited to find that there are more updates for this manhwa only to be greeted by absolute bullshit. Shitty ass amnesia arc where the ML essentially becomes somebody else in order to farm drama xD it's like the author forgot Chayoung even at the beginning of the story was mad obsessed with Gyuha. EVEN THEN. That Chayoung would not let this shit fly. Nah, bro rent cannot be that high. I know this manhwa is based off a novel but the Cherry Blossoms vibes this is giving are crazy lmao. Authors should know better than anyone when it's time to bow out gracefully.
The problem with some of you is that you're unable to understand that Grayson is no evil mastermind puppeteer in control and pulling everyone's strings. He is a himbo, childish, idiotic, violent, stunted, manipulative self-centered idiot. His perception of reality is genuinely warped so he thinks he is helping others and doing good (for the most part). He is not maliciously and knowingly hurting his siblings on purpose. And the reality of the matter is that if his family helped him in the same way he helps others, Grayson would just accept it as help. In fact, he already does. Grayson sees nothing wrong with Ashley's treatment of him because he is his father, and if his father does something to him it must be for his own good/right. And he gets SA'd later by someone who I will not name and doesn't mind in the end because he enjoyed the act. What I'm trying to say with this is that Grayson's mindset is also harmful to himself. He is brutally honest and at the same time deceptive in ways that put him at a disadvantage or in peril's way and he is so socially inept that he does not recognize he is self sabotaging. He genuinely, at first, doesn't understand why Chase hates him. He is not playing dumb or coy, he actually doesn't get it. Likewise, he does not realize how telling Naomi she is not the type you would want to marry could make her feel hurt to the point that she is only mantaining a facade of friendship just to see his downfall. These are just a couple of non spoilery examples. An adept manipulator and cold gigachad psychopath deluxe would not behave this way or fall into these obvious traps. Does that mean Grayson is a good person or that he deserves a redemption? No. But he is simultaneously more complex and simpler than what you might expect or assume from a first impression.
YESSS!! You get it!! Amazing analysis!!
But this has not been explained in the comic version yet - and a lot of people reading and commenting have not read the novel like you. So saying they "don't get it" is condescending; they're just forming an opinion from the current knowledge they have, which is right now the first 15 chapters of his story, Chase's story and Pittman's story.
And where was I being condescending to manhwa only readers especifically? I'm addressing the discussion going on about Grayson's character spearheaded by people who have read the novels and are raising up a storm about Grayson in the comments section because they don't get it. The only reason I'm not talking spoilers is to allow new readers to read another perspective of the situation. It's fine to hate Grayson (he is a fictional dude, who cares) but people should hate him for what he actually is, taking into account everything that is in the text, and not this made up version that is apparently Johan Liebert reborn or something, as if he could ever be that competent.
But how does he get sa'd when he enjoyed the act?
Because he didn't want it at first and had to be physically forced into it.
I havent read the novel and i already understood this lol.
For anyone who is curious, I read the raws and Bit chan is doing this simply because he is in love with the MC. There is no deeper reason. This is no revenge plot. Bit chan is just a good old yandere lmao
so, who was he talking to about coming to pick someone up? was he talking about the cat??
Also does this have physical book copies that I can buy or not??
Yeah, it must be. From what I gathered from the raws, no one else knows about what he's up to. Basically, he is just waiting for the MC to fall in love with him to let him go because that way they can be together and the MC will not dare to tell anyone the truth in order to not be separated from Bit chan. The good old nurturing dependence strat xD As to whether there are physical copies, I really don't know.
thank you very much! and thank you for taking time to answer me. not many people do.
Where to read the raw?
Good, we need more crazy for no reason characters :) I'm kinda tired of all the manipulation and mind games for some secret mission or revenge plot.
Honestly, same. The way I let out a sigh of relief when Bit chan said plainly he did it all bc he loved the MC. I love my yanderes.
People read red flag shit then get surprised when red flag shit does indeed occur. Every comment section is the same fucking song and dance. Nowadays there is a variety of wholesome and fluffy content out there and yet people will insist on reading the things that will trigger/upset them. ╮(￣▽￣)╭
PLEASEE THIS IS SO TRUE
LOUDER
it's not like they're tied down and is forced to read
Let's begin a trend and start complaining in the comment section of fluffly manhwas about how sweet and fluffly they're (jk)
I once commented on “an unfair love affair” that the couple were being cringe on a chapter and got downvoted to smithereens. To be fair that’s on me for reading it in the first place. I just have this thing where I can’t drop anything once I start I have to finish it.
LOL Nah totally get you
Omg I can't, If I don't like what I'm reading, then I drop it, gotta filter my precious time with good BL only
I need to learn this asap. God knows I’ve wasted far too much time on absolute garbage.
People read red flag shit then get surprised when red flag shit does indeed occur. Every comment section is the same fucking song and dance. Nowadays there is a variety of wholesome and fluffy content out there and yet people will insist on reading the things that will trigger/upset them.
People on mangago: Gee let me read this story that from the synopsis, cover art and premise you can tell it's going to be full of dark content and then complain about how fucked up it is in the comments. Then move on to the next sus as fuck manga/manhwa that shows up, rinse and repeat.