There's a really interesting thing happening in the story that coincides with the title. The flower that was bloomed by a Cloud. If we consider the flower Honglyon then the cloud would have to either something that greatly influences her. At first I thought the cloud would be the political situation in the palace as I expected Honglyon's fight to become empress the main plot of the story. But that didnt really play out( it ended too fast), so that could only mean that the cloud would have to be either Dowun or Baek han.
So lets first look at what Bloom means here its a little obvious but it refers to change/growth/ a progressive change of a person in the context of the story. So the cloud has to be someone who changes Honglyon.
I think that we also have to figure out what kind of bloom needs to happen, like a flower Honglyon can only bloom once so we have to figure out where in the story is she just a bud. Honglyon changes twice in the story, in the beginning she changed because of Dowun and then she changes because of Baek Han but she can only Bloom once so which was her bloom?
If we consider imagery Baek Han looks more like a cloud, he even wears blue a lot with reminds us of a cloud and the sky. He also has a heavy influence on Honglyon. We see her changes in the recent chapters she's less harsh. But is it a bloom? well..
Dowun has a stronger claim on the cloud title when he proposes to Honglyon in chp 5 he promises her to perfectly bloom her which is strange wording and probably just used as an indicator. He also has lots of cloud imagery surrounding him whenever we see him. But he doesnt have cloud colours, his colours are black and yellow so if he is the cloud why not give him cloud colours? Well remember the play at the beginning? Dowun has the same colours as the guy in the play and every other time the play comes up the doll used for the guy is wearing black and yellow.( We see that only certain character get colours in the story. Even Dowun and Dogyeol dont wear their colours the same way even though both of them wear black and yellow.)
I think Dowun is not only the Cloud but also the guy that Peony falls in love with. Many considered him BaekHan and if this was a typical story I think it would be Baek Han but If we consider everything we know and where Peony's story starts and where Honglyon's story starts... then its not possible for Baek han to be the guy. If Baek Han was the guy from the story then why make the title about Dowun? Also why have the colour of the guy correspond to Dowuns colours?
Also Dowun refer's the honglyon's recent change and her "reverting" to her old self, so we have what could be considered a "bloom" being immediately denied as a bloom. More like she's turning back into a bud.
I like that the author put in so much careful consideration when writing this story. Its not often we're lucky to get something so intricate and presented in such an amazing way. I hope you guys can be open to the themes presented here. I could be wrong about all of this but im ok with that lol
Some other things I noticed :
Lots of flower cloud imagery( i think it shows the title is also pretty important)
Loads of imagery with dowun and clouds in the cover with both of them the backdrop has lots of clouds as well.
Honglyon still uses the same ink tray(from the writing set) that Dowun got her in the beginning. I thought maybe all of them looked the same but the one of Dowun desk doesnt have a design and there arent many others shown so its just my assumption its the same one.
though baek han's color is a mix of green and blue... no 'cloud' colors
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Its more of a blue than a green tbh and its not just his clothes its also his hair being the only person with blond hair and not just any blond but a very light blond so much so that it had blue shadows ..... but ╮(￣▽￣)╭ idk what you're trying to say cus everything else still works even if Baekhan has to cloud colours than that just means he's just a false romantic lead which is cool too i was just trying to make an argument for him and not just make it one sided ...
I though dowun being the cloud was fairly obvious? even without the fine combed analysis. it refers to a fairly good natured youth (flower) who goes through a serious of changes psychologically and physically because of someone, and the character we know had the biggest influence in her character development throughout the story has been dowun since the beginning. we are really only just now getting some development with Baek Han
I took it to mean a metemorphisis of some kind rather then her simply becoming a dowun 2.0 (his cold rationality and pragmatism) perhaps adopting *some* of those useful lessons to her own without losing her sense of who she is and what makes her different from him.
like the dynamic between littlefinger and sansa, she takes what she learns from her experiences with him and overthrows him in the end.
I just really liked the way the author uses other literary devices in this. I dont see a lot of webtoons with this level of thought put into it so for the ppl who didnt notice it I wanted to point it out. (the imagery and use of colour are things to be admired in this webtoon but that may just be a me thing)
I dont think dowun is anything like littlefinger, littlefinger was obsessed with sansa in a weird way because of his obsession with her mother. And they dont have a dynamic like that since this isnt a political drama but a romance drama.
Its pretty obvious dowun, hong lyon and baek han are meant to be in a love triangle of sorts. I dont think she will be able to overthrow him or that she should Dowun is her only ally I think she should try to change the relationship between them like even if they dont become lovers they could work better as a team.
It would be nice to see honglyon take some power but she doesnt do anything to help herself since she prefers to run around with baekhan so much.
I've said this many times already but Dowun is not the antagonist in this webtoon and he isnt out of place for the timeline the story takes place in, In fact id argue honylyon is the strange one so very focused on love.
Like we had so much warnings about him and he has a perfect reason to want to hurt both honglyon and dowun. His interaction with baek han looked like he was trying to cause trouble and dowun telling his dad not to trust him is just big foreshadowing since his dad doesnt listen to him
I think he'll try to mess with baek han to get to honglyon since she also didnt help him back then. and hurting honglyon would affect dowun since he's also probably mad and still as immature as he was in the beginning. oh well im probably just wrong anyway lol
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Shes acting like a child tbh, Dowun is the one who helped her become the empress, her literally saves her life and its obvious he has feelings for her. If he didnt he wouldnt try so hard to get rid of the body guard. Lets talk about the body guard for a min, 1. He only liked her after she became empress 2. he saved her and noticed her in the beginning because he pitied her 3.He has nothing to offer her that Dowun cant. Dowun looks hurt in the furture chapter cus she has a clear preference and he deserves better. Even asara said that he does all the work for her, his army is what helped her claim the throne, he even scolded asara when she said bad but true shit about hong lyon. If dowun didnt care about her why would he not want Baek han around her? Dowun obviously has his own traumas and who knows what makes a kid act so cold from birth? He literally has to orchestrate the rise of his own bloodline all on his own at a very young age and yall are still acting like hes just mean for no reason. Whatever if she ends up with worthless baek han i hope Dowun destroys them both, he deserves the loyalty he asked from her when he chose her >.>
If he did have feelings for her then I don’t really understand his way of behavior. He acts as if he is using her ever since day one and even admitted it. And I think he’s trying to get rid of baek han is because he’s a threat to his plans that he spent all of his life preparing for
Both are using each other. Just as she owes him nothing, he owes her nothing. He didn't do any of that because he likes her, all he did was for his own benefit so much that he only chose her because she could be manipulated, she is a toll. She is still loyal to him, she could try to deviate from the marriage, but didnt. But how can she trust him fully? I would not trust. My fear is that they will get married and after the first child he will have her killed, because he is obsessive with power and has already stated several times that they have a business relationship only. But she is human and has needs. She wants a romantic relationship and he is not going to offer it to her. So she can look elsewhere, we are talking about a time when kings had multiple partners.
Baek han has no power that was taken from him when he agreed to have his family serve at the boarders, he's no threat to Dowun. Except when it comes to hong lyon who clearly favours baek han.In future chapter we fight over a meeting with hong lyon, baek han in a way kind of admits he likes hong lyon and dowun gets very mad about it. Honestly if he didnt care about her at all he wouldnt fight so needlessly with baek han. he would just allow them to be. he's a tsundere lol
Didnt she make a promise to him in the beginning to give him something in return for his help? he's been helping her from the start and has continued the to do so and probably will continue to do it however even his simple requests like not meeting a palace guard alone hong lyon cant follow. Dowun has yet to actually do anything to harm her so I dont believe he would killed her at any point, Dowun isnt as obvious about his feelings as Baek han but he does care for her he's shown that multiple times. He scolds his own guard when she speaks ill of hong lyon, he stands up for her against the other princess, he also does majority of the work while she does near to nothing.
He may say they only have a business relationship but again he's loyal to her and hasnt done anything to hurt her and has only given her what he promised. There's a reason behind his cold behaviour. If he wanted to manipulate her he would have given her the love she wanted, but he isnt like that. We see any form of affection dowun shows her she becomes flustered, he could use it to string her along so he would have better control over her especially with Baek han being so blatant about his own feeling (which is really dumb in their time) but he doesnt. He allows her to make her decisions about Baek han even though rumours start to spread about them which he warned her would happen.
If she is human and has needs so is dowun but dowun can control himself and be logical. Yes a time where KINGS had multiple partners, she's an empress and unmarried its hard to assume its ok for her to pursue a relationship with a guard and think its fine.since rumours are spreading about her and baek han its probably not ok for any of them.
You continue to say "help" when all he did was for his own good. To bring honor to his family again. To win her trust, why did he choose a princess that her mother was not even a concubine? Because it was easier than the princess who was the queen's daughter. I don't see any feeling in him, on the day that she is no longer useful he will discard her just as he did with his brother. And you are right KINGS can have many partners, but nothing prevents her from having them either, she just needs to be more discreet.
but if rumours are spreading she isnt being discreet, most empress did not rule alone and did not take multiple partners until after the emperor died so she really has no excuse to do what shes doing. he did help her and she was aware of the situation and used it to her own advantage as well. Dowun did not force her she choose to follow him, just like she choose to go to the empire and to had her own brother killed.
Stop acting like the mc is just an innocent little girl and dowun is some monster who is taking advantage of her. She is exactly like him because they both had nothing but share the same hunger. Dowun choose her because she was just like him and she still is like him.
Perhaps it is the language barrier, English is not my first language. I'm not meaning myself clear. But I don't think he is a monster or that she is innocent, I just don't see him "helping" her when he gains so much by helping, when "helping" is the plan to make his family rise to power. That's why I say from the beginning that he owes her nothing, he owes her nothing, not love, not companioship. But she also owes him nothing. Now speaking of history, the history only showed how he is capable of everything, the same way she is . Actually for me she got rid of him, I don't want her to be nice. I want her to survive and be happy
I think she can find happiness with dowun though his character isnt fully fleshed out for us and we dont know yet where the author is going with this yet. The title is the flower that blossomed in the cloud Flower = hong lyon cloud= dowun its still a story about them and ppl arent really realizing that
I like Dowun very much so. He isn't fully fleshed out as you said, but Dowun is there for her and is logical in a lot of ways. He was there for her when nobody else was.
Yea he doesnt deserve the amount of hate he gets on here
he is only "there for her" bec. she was the only one he could easily approach. he is highly intelligent
and when they first met, he made a plan to use her. all his actions are heinous
these sence is so full of dowuns love...
http://www.mangago.me/read-manga/the_flower_that_was_bloomed_by_a_cloud/nbt/mpn_chapter-2068902/pg-11/
he is full aware that she has a crush on him- if not before then after his name was her first writing
he never used that against her though so what's your point? he never promised her a relationship or strung her along with the promise of one. It was clear from the start what their relationship and agreement would be.
There isnt a clear explanation for his actions though I think it will come later on when he realizes he could really lose her to baek han.
http://www.mangago.me/read-manga/the_flower_that_was_bloomed_by_a_cloud/nbt/mpn_chapter-2163907/pg-1/
An entire chap of dowun being loving and even rushing to see her when he hears she isnt well :)
of course he used it agianst her- or better that she played along. back then she wasnt so scheming- all she did was bec. she had a crush on him and he knew it.
a full chapter of love? lol of course if she dies before the wedding he will have problems.
so he has to make sure she lives till they are a married couple.
and of course when he realize his position in her feelings starts to waver... he has to do sometihng...
so long his tool works he will use it. if it someday is useless.....
ok sis
I think the point for me is: is this a healthy relationship? No, it is not. Even if he has feelings for her (which i believe he does), it doesn't really matter, because he's not there for her in a way a partner should be and i can't make myself cheer for a relationship where she would have to give up a huge part of who she is and what makes her happy just to be with someone who doesn't makes any effort to build a relationship. It's like i'm rooting for someone to stay in a toxic relationship just because the abuser has feelings... well he does, indeed. And they are hurting her.
just because hes cold doesnt mean hes abusive, also we barely know or understand his character and shouldnt overlook the fact that character development could happen. i dont think hes the black and white bad guy character meant to stop baekhan and honglyon from being together. anyway its fine if ppl disagree since everyone is set on a cookie cutter story vs one with more character complexities and development.
I'm all for knowing Dowun past and his future. I like to get to know Dowun a lot better and know why his past was that he gotten where he was at when he was younger.
even if he would be a tsundere- would you crumble a piece of paper with your name on it? she did not know it, so there was no point in tsundere-like behaviour: see I crumble the paper, I dont like you. she didnt see it so where the point? he is just not interested
ok sis go offf
even if he doesnt end up with honglyon or if he really turns out the be the bad guy I would still want to know why he behaves the way he does. Hopefully the author allows a good explanation that atleast makes sense
lol
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lmao this screams give Dowun some major credits he paving for the future but MC is actually an ingrate, but you know you're giving him too much credit ╮(￣▽￣)╭ let's be honest the dude helped her for obvious reasons, even if he developed some secret feelings he has reiterated again and again to not dream of stuff like love and just do her part as a good chess piece who's his future wife. You expect her to understand and be stupidly loyal for a loveless marriage? The reasoning that he's just a tsundere so he's not that bad just doesn't justify anything, when obviously a relationship needs to go both ways. Our MC has never EVER been loved her whole life who'd be able to take a hint, I mean any person in that position would have to think twice with such a scheming person who has repeatedly told you that the only advantage you had was your status and it makes her useful.
I'm pretty sure she understands that Dowun has helped her wherever she is right now and that's why she lets a lot of things pass, like how she doesn't have a say in her life or how she should run it, for example. Because jebus she is an Empress now, even if its just a useless title. She's supposed to be a person who can literally do anything under the skies and be free but she isn't. It's such an imbalance of power, and really Dowun could literally start another revolution anytime and she's insecure enough to think that's possible. Because he can sacrifice anyone, even his brother. Her survival depends on it.
Moreover, she's an empress. A loveless marriage? perfectly ok, she's a ruler. If he just wants the power and the position she can play her role. Why can't she love anyone else? it's not like she's bound by such things. She can take a thousand male concubines and nobody would say anything. If he didn't need love, don't expect her to keep herself exclusive when he only wanted the title.
Again here we are with yall acting like the MC is some innocent little girl getting taken advantage of by big bad dowun. SHe knew what she was getting into, Dowun has never changed his personality the entire time he's always acted logical doing everything they needed to get them where they are now. And lets not pretend that Dowun needed her, because before he even met her he was well known in the palace already he had private meetings with the emperor and was highly regarded as a very intelligent young boy. Even the other princess was confused why Dowun would want to be with Honglyon.
Where and how would Dowun start a revolution sis? And she's clearly not afraid that he would because shes not complying with ANYTHING he says anyway.
AND let's really talk about Honglyon and her want to be empress but the fact that she does nothing, she knows Dowun does all the work and its not hard for her to ever start an argument or tell him she wants to be reported to about the politics and the empire. Has she done anything but complain about how no one listens to her while chasing after Baekhan as though that helps her standing as the empress lmao she really hasnt done anything to solidify herself so i why yall expect anything to get handed to her. Plus the way shes acting now will not get her any respect for the men in her own damn court.
BOTH of them sacrificed Do Gyeol stop acting like honglyon did something to stop it she isnt an innocent victim and Dogyeol got what was coming to him because he did something WRONG! Can we all just acknowledge that if Dowun didnt send him back to beg for forgiveness and speak to the emperor that Dogyeol could have lost his life? Like he got off light. guess what Honglyon killed her own brother but no one hates her for that, that was poor little honglyon being manipulated by big bad dowun again right?
Sorry maybe read some history books or watch a few dramas because being empress doesnt mean she free to do whatever she wants even emperors arent free to do whatever they want. They actually have to work and take care of their empire lol
I dont know if she can obviously theres a bit of scandal happening here right? like why would rumours spread if it werent scandalous for her to be with baek han? Also lets not act like empresses and emperors were treated equally in history most of the time from what i know an empress only takes a concubine after the emperor has died.
I think a lot of you take this webtoon way too personally I just wanted to insert another perspective here because majority of you think only one way here and are very vocal about it. I hope yall can consider having two sides to the story and realise the characters are more complex than you think. For most of you you cant relate to Dowun or understand why he acts the way he does or even understand his pursuit of power. I get that but to me I cant understand Honglyon and the way she behaves like at all...
Well, first of all, i apologize, I didn't express all my thoughts, so my comment turned really "cookie-cutter" as you mentioned, so this time I will elaborate it a little more.
As a reader, when I look at the love part of the story and only at that, I do not root for D. exactly bc he's the "tsundere" character, which acts like a mean/cold/rude person (not necessarily all of it at the same time or the same intensity), doesn't cooperate to build a relationship, but expect to be loved and cared. This type of entitlement, I can't stand.
So for her, be with him, as he is now, is not a good thing. Yes, he can change... but lord knows how many stories I saw this happens: none... Well, surprises DO exists.
That being said, I agree with "Lazybuns", in a political view, she is right in being aware of him, he helped her because she was the person who could give him more advantages with fewer losses and he did nothing to be at her side as a companion, but only as business partner. He made that very clear.
So for me, it comes as a surprise when people claim she is being a child or ingrate to him, she is going to get married to the guy and give him the most important and powerful position on her country (not even after her, because she is powerless now).
Of course, she has to maintain the appearance of a "righteous" woman even if she is an empress, I'm not naive to think the position she holds changes the gender discrimination she faces. However, until now she didn't let anyone witness her moments with the bodyguard. Yes, i thought she appointing him as her bodyguard a strange (bad, incoherent) political choice, but... oh well, I guess this is a romance novel, not a political one...
What doesn't make any sense for me, and "Lazybuns" said it well, is WHY he is bordered by her actions, like she is supposed to be faithful to him. If he is so insistent in the "loveless" aspect of the partnership he should be coherent and only warn her about discretion. But again.... this is a romance novel and I hope this story is complex as it appers because if she ends up with an entitled emotional underdevelop ass, who is excused because of a sad childhood story, I will not have it.
I agree with most of what you say, except for the first part, if he didn't want more power none of this would have happened. Yes, she is pretty useless until now, this is just objectively true.
"So for her, be with him, as he is now, is not a good thing. Yes, he can change... but lord knows how many stories I saw this happens: none... Well, surprises DO exists." it happens in the abandoned empress lol it just character development ie situations that will either force Dowun to change or he'll see his own downfall Im ok with both most of you arent though idk why...characters are allowed to have flaws and be difficult and not start off as the normal prince charming type.
She is only powerless because she chooses to be SHE has commanded Dowun at multiple moment in the webtoon so idk why you guys think she cant be more involved in the running of the country if she wanted to be. She has yet to try to be so dont act like Dowun is taking that away from her as its never shown, he has the respect of everyone in the palace because of all the work he does she doesnt even make an attempt so i cant sympathize with her at all her. (this is also why I see her as childish she feels like she should get things without putting the effort)
I dont think Dowun expected her to love him? where did you get that impression? He expects loyalty at the most but he's not stupid enough to expect something he's not giving... I think Dowun sees emotional attachments as weakness which is why he wants both honglyon and himself to not to be emotional. He even criticized his father for the same thing with dogyeol so its obvious that dowun has some issues with emotional attachments and trust. ( a yet to be explored factor)
I disagree Dowun had a very good standing within the palace before he even met honglyon he had obvious favour with the emperor so idk why yall act like she was his best choice because she was a princess. The other more favoured princess would be a better choice or he could have raised the power of his clan on his own sure things turned out great with honglyon but i cant sit here and act like Dowun wouldnt have done well even without her because he would have.
Ppl already saw her with the bodyguard because dowun knew about it and the rumours had already begun before the recent chapter the other guard says "maybe the rumours were true" implying they had already been circulating so...yea she isnt discreet at all.
Just wanted to say just because shes the MC she's not above character flaws or criticism as everyone seems to think her like she is by no means the perfect person all of you are trying to make her out to be.
I just cant help but feel this isnt the kind of story where an easy relationship with Baek han is the end game and Dowun isnt evil by any means so i cant see him as an antagonist here. It could end in tragedy ... maybe dowun kills them both lol or maybe the happy ending is dowun dies and she rules with the bodyguard as her concubine ( i guess the ending most ppl want) lol Oh well its whatever either way at this point it would be interesting to see what the author does with it.
I will put my answers in the order of your statements.
I don't read A.E, so I really don't know if this happened or not... But what I'm certain is that I will not complain about a story that is well developed. The way he is now, I don't like him, he is a great politician, but not a great human being.
I agree with your perception about her, she is useless right now, this is just objectively true.
I got the impression he expects her to love him by the way he keeps trying to call her attention with certain actions, like with her mother grave... I don't know if you interpreted this as well, but there is a panel where he seems pleased when she says that she always changed because of him... there were other moments, but I'm too lazy right now, sorry.
I disagree with you, I think she was a good choice because she was gullible, the other favored princess had backup, knowledge, family, etc. She didn't, if a person wants power she was actually a good choice if the cards were played well, which was. Oh, he actually had some power, in the beginning, it was not the greatest, but the fact that he chose to rebel instead of just being satisfied with his standing says a lot.
About the rumors, well is true, I was wrong, she is not being very discreet, I think this is also something she needs to fix, but at the same time, she did said in the last chapter that the announcement of the marriage was way to fix it... not greatest one, but effective in a sense.
And about the end, I think she will end with D. is just how those stories go, usually.
I have so many things to rebut in here lol gurl, I NEVER SAID she was an innocent white lotus (⌒▽⌒) you think getting the position of "one below all" is just a free ride like you can be your naive self and just sit there being spotless? Deposing a ruler and beheading someone who was about to go through the crowning ceremony, nobody woud believe your hands weren't stained black. It is the concensus that nobody is a fool in the royal family, because there are only dead people, or scheming people that exists there. I mentioned her brother because hell, he sacrificed a BLOOD RELATED SIBLING (and hey the kid isnt even a concubine born but genuinely 100% related by blood from the same di wife) , if she was stupid she'd be next right? Does that even have to be translated and said in the comic for that to be apparent? If she was that fearless yes she can throw away everything and die then, not knowing how she died, either by Dowun or some other person who had their own schemes. She doesn't know Dowun has secret feelings after all lol she can blame him of course, if she died.
Also politically yes, he needed MC. The concept of emperors suppressing the nobles is a tried and true method lmao. Yes he can enter the palace, but how old was he then? 13, 14? I doubt he even had his coming of age ceremony and he's just a juvenile who couldn't enter court since he wasn't an adult yet. The point is, his whole Yang clan has for every generation been suppressed. Nobody could get any significant positions in court. The salvation is the emperor was quite indifferent so he didn't purposely exterminate the clan and just sat on his throne as long as the Yang clan didn't cross the line. And Dowun, wanted more. More power for his clan, with most of his family in key positions. Honestly even if the emperor looked on him favorably, it was only for him and to emperors, too briliant of an official is actually a snake beside their bed. He would closely monitor an existence like Dowun like a viper, good person or not, specially because he comes from the Yang clan (based on Dowun's account I surmise Yang is one of the founding noble families or a prominent clan in the past). At first I was actually surprised even, since marrying a royal princess in chinese culture (yo the garments of this comic look more chinese so) doesn't mean its a benefit, but a cutoff to your career. You stay at home and be a fuma, you can't influence the court in anyway, a method done so that the ongoings of court does not get influenced by other royalties vying for power. That was what I surmised the reason why emperor let him marry MC. I'm guessing either dowun really isn't in court but in reality he has been manipulating it through his father, or this is a modified historical setting.
Anyway What I was telling you was that you were giving him too much credit like 'look, I'm doing all this work FOR YOU' because hey he was doing it for himself too. He honestly would still do these things even without MC lmao because its for his clan. When he decided to take in 'baggage' MC, he really wasn't expecting her to handle power and she just needed to look like an upstanding royal with magical 4 arts memorized to the letter. Her royal blood really made 'taking power' look valid and righteus for the Yang clan, made things easier to insert themselves in the throne struggle.
You mention how she doesn't do anything, but really? Dowun and his clan has literally been doing the maneuvering outside of the palace and she's just a lady who shouldnt even step outside the inner courtyard. Of course everybody knows that who actually has the say in anything is Dowun and the Yang clan LMAO they have the connections, they have all of the power. Not to mention she even went outside of the country in such a vital time of power struggle, any connections she should have established? Nothing. She can literally be taken out of her seat gurl, if Dowun wanted it haha. A revolution is possibleeeee. She is a true puppet, no amount of tantrums or disobedience would really do even a scratch to Dowun.
As for the thing with emperors lol that was figurative speech But seriously, emperors can do anything if they had their head in the right place and theyre actually amazing emperors, without letting officials man the court and if they dont actually commit the most henious crimes and cultural taboos in open daylight (because a lot of them did it behind closed doors). Yes they work a lot and a loooot of hardships yes, but if he wanted, in exchange he could put anyone to death, just needs the right hand to use. He could do a little bit of scheming and pin some crime to kill anyone really.
As for empresses, lol, she comes from the royal line, she has the blood of the son of heaven, so all those empress examples you said don't apply, all those empresses are outsiders with no blood connection, because historically, there is an example of a royal woman who had thousands of male concubines (a royal princess favored by an emperor). What more for an empress? Scandal or not really they can gossip all they want but they really can't say anything. Because the point of the harem even was to make the royal line more prosperous, with her killing everyone of her siblings the dam is as dry as a drought. Its more than enough reason to get a harem, because it was 'justified' to have harems so rulers can plant many many seeds for many future sons of dragons.
Anyway I don't expect you to read this because damn I wrote a whole saga this was one whole chapter of my lifespan my point is I know my ABC's, I have read more than enough about this subject and I eat this stuff 3 meals a day and then some. Don't give Dowun so much credit, lol because really everything is calculated, to the point where he would kill his emotions to get the best benefit.
Its great you should do some fanfics, i disagree with everything you said and my points are still valid. I mean how much more can i argue the same points? you havent managed to convince me otherwise and I know until this webtoon is over yall arent gonna see dowun as anything but an evil villain. Im not out here trying to turn your opinions on anything because...
I know youre ranting but you know their names are korean right? like its korean so ur little chinese history lesson doesnt apply.
Ur first point just annoys me though like ... so she killed her brother and other siblings (her half brother because they are the emperor's children they are both blood relationed so ur wrong there) and its ok but dowun saves both her and do gyeol after dogyeol makes a stupid mistake that would have gotten him killed if he didnt do what dowun told him at the time and dowun is evil for it? that what we're going for? let me add that honglyon just stood by and let it happen after do gyeol begged even her for help. she knew if she wanted her new palace back she had to give him up too so...
Its never a worry for honglyon that dowun would sacrifice her it also wasnt the point of the situation with dogyeol either so idk why yall are so worried about it. As of now honglyon has pursued another lover, kicked dowun out of her palace, said a lot of unnecessary thing to him in public favour of baekhan and Dowun has shown no signs of wanting to get rid of her. I mean its silly and I just dont see it happening...
I mean its cute you made my point for me, dowun doesnt need the mc to get where he wanted to get its why he rejected her the first time she asked him to help her lol He already had a plan to help both him and his family out before meeting honglyon. BTW if you dont see you own contradiction, you said "Also politically yes, he needed MC."
and then you stated "He honestly would still do these things even without MC" so lets just both agree he didnt need her ( its also stated in the webtoon )
Im aware that Dowun did things for himself too but you guys are acting like its a bad thing even though he gave honglyon everything he promised he would give her. I just think dowun cares for her in his own little way and just because he isnt all lovey dovey like baek han everyone drops hate for him every chapter.
It's best for her that Dowun and his clan take up most of the positions of power in the empire, dowun is her only ally. Since its obvious honglyon isnt liked by most of the ministers and nobles in the palace not the mention other possible outside threats Dowun is actually protecting her by taking up those positions of power. (im fine with this since its the only way she can really be on the throne anyway and this isnt important because this isnt a story about politics its about romance) what I meant is that theres no time where honglyon attempts to gain favour with those nobles or talk to dowun about anything that has to do with politics or work.
Honglyon is mainly unhappy about her power because the palace maids dont listen to her lol oh no she has so many problems god knows how shes going to deal with it. Plus why are we even acting like she wanted to be a good leader anyway? she didnt care about her country she wanted to become empress for herself lol
Honglyon isnt some cherished empress she isnt given all those titles and is likely to not get thousands of concubines because no one in the palace with any power likes her outside of dowun. Plus like this is a fantasy world with no definitive rules set by the author when it comes to how things work. All we know is that its a scandal that she's so close to baek han when shes dowuns betroth ( because we see ppl gossiping so there must be something wrong with it if we think a little logically it makes sense) Like i said before Honglyon should take better care with her own action but she just doesnt care even though there are much worst ppl out there that would overthrow her in an instant and none of them are Dowun.
....you rant too much btw I had to wade through so much ranting to get to your points (๑•ㅂ•)و✧
Sigh. First, if this was a korean setting none of this would make any sense like seriously. There is a big difference in chinese and korean royalty. The customs and attire of these people is complete bonkers if it is. Everything they have done until now is from some magical country and there is no reason to debate about Dowun because I should just view this on a modern POV. After all the cultural premise is bonkers, and looking at it with a modern POV he's a guy who wanted commitment in marriage when he said he didn't care. They use korean names because a korean author made it obviously, but HEY authors should just write stories from their place of origin amiright?
I'll make a short (lol ITS LONG) point list: 1) eastern royalties are trash, especially chinese royalty. Those are her HALF siblings who didn't give a shiz if she died or not, and she was just a person who was pooped by their parents, no background, power or status. As they say, there are no relatives in royalty. Dowun's brother is his 100% BROTHER, from the same mother and father. He treated the brat like how he would treat family. It says a lot about what would make MC insecure, like you know suddenly being dropped by Dowun, ally or not, friend or not. 2) those two sentences I said were two completely different contexts. the FIRST meant he needed her if he wanted to REALLY rise like a shooting star, more easily and without too much uncertainty. Because obviously the plan was to stick to a prince, but hey having a royal princess birth a royal son with Yang blood, isn't that the same as having the chance to rule the empire?Having a relation with royalty, easy to justify nepotism or the yangs gaining power right? People can't say anything if their relative was the empress herself and putting yang family members in key positions would be easier. If they supported other princes even after succeeding they had to watch their steps. And The SECOND meant that the points you said about the painstaking efforts he put out to help her, he would still do them regardless of whether she was grateful about it because it helps him too LMAO. He has ridden the ship knowing the empress is a puppet with no power of course he has to handle it haha. Whatever MC feels doesn't matter, so why's he got to whine? I think he knows this too so he doesn't say anything, he said he doesnt need love.
3) that's why I mentioned before, MC knows that Dowun is helping her so she lets a lot of things pass like how she can't run her life the way she wants to or how she's a puppet. Whatever they do to in court she just stays meek, its not like she has a say anyway she only wanted to survive. This 'scandal' she has is just minor stuff and doesnt affect anything--she still marries dowun, dowun gets power, nothing happens she won't be condomned and killed for loving someone because she is an empress jebus thats why Dowun is a prick for finding bone on something that virtually doesn't influence court issues. He can't even play the love card coz that's what he wants. And that was the point, she can take concubines because its just a concubine like how a ruler has thousands. 4) I don't hate Dowun, to me Dowun is like that bitter gourd you feel 50/50 about that's good for your health but you still wouldn't want to eat if you could help it. I just disagree how Dowun is being portrayed as 'pitiful' since he did alll these things for the future of MC and she's being an ingrate for loving someone when she can both keep her promise AND love someone else.
Sigh I need to take a chill pill but as much as I love hate Dowun I cannot agree that MC is an ingrate or Dowun is pitiful so ya.
Its like I say one thing and you take it and just run to whatever place that makes me sound horrid. I assumed its korean because there are korean references, yes the author is korean but as an author/artist myself I know that its not hard to give then chinese names if they are in fact chinese. And i never said the author has to only write about korean things just that the little cultural references we get are historically korean...
I never said Dowun is pitiful just that the hate he gets its overblown as opposed to who he is and what he has done. I wont bother with the rest because my points keep going over ur head so whatever enjoy the webtoon sweetie ╮(￣▽￣)╭
There are a lot of examples of authors actually using names based on their national language but writing about a completely different culture, so... Koreans do it too so that's a little fun fact.
I actually took the time to read, see what you had to say and explain my points on stuff you've said so I don't think what I said is irrelevant ╮(￣▽￣)╭ well that's ok either way. the fact you said MC acts childish and Dowun's feelings are hurt coz of how she doesn't think about his pains says a lot about MC being an ingrate and Dowun being a little white cabbage that did all the work for nothing. At least from what you said. Maybe you hadn't intended it so forget about it.
Either way enjoy the comic bye
he was the one who didn't want emotions getting in the way of their deal remember? and now he doesnt want her around other men and acting like she should go back to being the obsessed puppy that just followed him around, wagging her tail begging for scraps of his affection that she used to be and he Rejected. he's breaking his own rules now. what should it matter to him who she hangs with when they are getting married in like a week anyways so it doesnt matter.
all he wanted was the throne, and he's getting it soon, so to be acting entitled over where she focuses her attention seems hypocritical and a two faced bitch move
Thats a common romance trope so....it isnt like Dowun only treats her that way, he is that way with his brother and father as well. It looks like Dowun has issues with emotional attachment/expression.
I mean obsessed puppy is kinda pushing it like he seems to more want her to be like him than like a puppy. When she changes from the childish honglyon he first met to the more mature calm one reflecting dowun's own demeanor he seems to like that as apposed to wanting her to be a puppy around him.
Also you cant tell me honglyon doesnt treat Dowun like shit because she does. NEVER has he looked at her the way she has looked at him, Never has he spoke to her the way she speaks to him ( im fine with her checking him he deserves it) but honglyon is mad with Dowun MAINLY because he doesnt want an emotional relationship not for anything else.
Dowun isnt dumb if he wanted her to be an obsessed puppy he would emotionally manipulate her with empty promises of love or whatever, he's never done that.
I dont really like honglyon because I dont think she acts in a way that makes sense ╮(￣▽￣)╭
Again it matters rumours are spreading and it could endanger her also spoilers but in the raws ppl who definitely want to hurt her are very close by and her running about outside the palace with Baek han does her no favours. She's really not doing anything to help herself and in the end Dowun is going to have to save her again lol Dont act like Baek han has the power to protect her from anyone really he doesnt.
A lot of interesting dramatic stuff to come so dont worry this conflict bet her and dowun isnt the main conflict ( thk god it would be pretty boring if it was)
(〜￣△￣)〜
just saying, your so called 'help' he did it only bec. 'to help himself'- getting her on the throne. if she would not be the right candidate, he would chose somebody else. of course he is proud of her- his own creation.
which reason could she have to be pissed? may bec he killed her father and kept at a secret (she didnt liked him, yeah but we dont know if she had killed him or wanted affection), may bec. he destroyed the momento of her mother, may bec. he gives commands in her name without asking/discuss somethin with her, deciding everything about her without (again) asking/discuss it with her, like she is a nobody. he kinda treats her like the other did in her childhood- worthless.
yep, its true he had a bad childhood (like her, though his was probarbly more cruel) but that isnt a reason to kill people- like he did (or at least, he ordered it in her name)
they both did a lot of stuff she does things to hurt him too so i dont really care. shes still doing useless things as opposed to things that could help her, his commands are good enough as hers hes not only her consort but her political ally so... she was pretty much ok with killing her own brother are you saying she doesnt have blood on her hands? because she does ...
She had to chose him too and she did its a two way street she also knew what she signed up for so...
He also gave her mother the recognition she didnt have before and put her name in the ancestral shrine so i mean stay in the past i guess but honglyon let that go a while now actually she let it go that very same chapter.
The main reason shes pissed with Dowun is because he told her he doesnt want an emotional relationship he doesnt want to admit or express his feelings for her and that's the things that pisses her off the most.
characters are allowed to be messed up and flawed I know yall love reading the perfect stereotypical characters all the time with the perfect love stories where everthing is always great and perfect but this aint that story. Honglyon is flawed, Dowun is flawed, Baek Han is Flawed!!! Stories are allowed to be complex and messed up.
We obviously both like this story you havent changed my opinion like at all no matter how much you say the same thing over and over ... Idk where the author is going with this (well i think i figured it out but idk) I dont think you know either so lets just enjoy the story. From the raws and the raws that arent released yet it gets good though we can both agree we're in for a good story ╮(￣▽￣)╭
I think he will get character development soon so im not worried also would rather an interesting character over someone as clueless as baek han.
The thing with her mother's grave though I think he did it more as an apology than a way to make her love him. The changing thing is explored more in the next chapter but i think he wants her to be like him which is why he's pleased. I dont think he expects her to love him I think since he's known her since she was a girl he could have manipulated her using promises of love and sweet word but he never did.
I think he does love her he just cant admit it lol
I mean ppl in these stories are never satisfied and he was praised as a genuis so its not hard to see he would want more especially if things in his childhood pushed him toward that. In this setting it would be weird for someone like Dowun to not rebel wouldnt it?
But dowun was right theres still lots of danger close to her and she doesnt even seem to care she just does things carelessly. Oh well it'll all come to a head soon enough.
I think she will end up with Dowun as well, I think baek han is a romantic false lead meant to break Dowun out of his own boundaries. lol cant wait till chapter 50 is out XD
She really dont deserve anything I hope dowun lets her burn the absolute idiot...
said what i said
lol, i understand, but that was mean xD
girl, chill... i'm just laughing. I said I understan that she is mad just that. (⊙…⊙ )
I've spent so much time on here explaining myself to ppl and I wont do it anymore lol especially since most of the ppl who read this wont ever try to look at it as anything other that what they already made up their minds that it is. (I've also explained loads of times in other comments you can go find those if you like)
I also never said dowun should be treated like a king or deserves better lol I said lyon deserves nothing lol and she doesnt. She doesnt deserve to be empress because she lives in lala land she doesnt deserve the moments dowun spends worrying about her which she herself can never see(this was shown atleast twice) she doesnt even deserve baekhan lol Dowun has been telling her to be careful for so long to wait until they're married to act up and then she can fuck whoever she wants all she has to do is wait until she's married. But no lyon keeps putting herself in danger and even went as far as to stay a whole night out with a man. I dont get how these are equivalents to yall. When has dowun made advances on other women? Yea he kept his distance but he never strayed. He plays his part well and lyon makes a complete mess of herself time and time again. I just dont have any sympathy for her at all lol
Anyway IMO lyon hasnt done anything to secure her position at all. If she feels like she cant trust dowun then she could be making moves politically to secure herself. Instead she's running around thinking she's in some fairytale love story like sis they'll literally kill you and you're more concerned about making Dowun mad than anything else.
Also unpopular opinion but she wouldnt be half as interested in baekhan if Dowun hadnt turned her romantic advances down.
Also Dogyeol is just fine idk why youre so worried about him when he's set up to be a straight up villain. Did you think he came back for fun? That fact that he's openly communicating with jayang is proof enough that gyeol is gonna do something to hurt all of them.
Im still confused though at what Dowun was expected to do when Gyeol did something wrong and had to face the consequences of his action? Dowun had warned Dogyeol that he had to behave at the palace, but no gyeol goes and gets himself in trouble and was lucky to leave with his life. Was Dowun expected to burn with him? To take bout him and lyon down with do gyeol? Is that really what yall expect? Neither dowun or lyon had enough power to stop that from happening so someone explain to me what either of them were supposed to do?
Anyway I'm out sis peace. lmao
if u say so i just dint have a heart oh no lol
exactly y i stopped explaining things to yall lol
lmao ok ╮(￣▽￣)╭