dokyo

it's not bdsm, it's rape fantasy.

You’re right. There’s no consent

Agreed

in your book there's various kinds of rape? I never heard of "glorified rape." haha. Anyway, this was not rape. Rape is a crime. No crime was committed. It was both of their first time. If you think the misunderstandings in this story equal rape, just wait till you get out in the real world where misunderstanding during first-time sex abound. They are both adults. There's no innocent victim and big bad villain. That's over-dramatizing to the point of absurdity

I meant the way it was portrayed was glorified as rape should be not. It obviously worked to you since you’ve become so bewitched by it. I can’t believe I’m about to explain rape to someone but here we go. The guy was drunk (obviously a lightweight as he had said so before) and the guy took advantage of the situation and had sex with him and the bottom thought it was a dream. When he wakes up later, he has no recollection of the act. Textbook definition of rape. I know it’s a comic and it’s not that deep but the romanticism of it from young girls is something that is very dangerous.

no need to define rape. I just disagree. I also say that producing sanitized content that isn't a danger to young girls is not an artist's job. It seems that today everything is a danger to young girls. There's a rapist waiting around every corner in your broadened-out "text book definition of rape."
Vilifying every young man who is a stupid little ignorant sexist makes the entire male world into a danger that no woman should ever go near. That's stupid. You can't hold men or women responsible for knowing what someone else is thinking, feeling, or drinking. I mean, you can, but what does the world look like when you're done criminalizing every man's actions except Gandhi?

Yes I also agree and the sex scenes it's seem no feeling

Just because it was both of their first times does not mean it was not rape. rape is nonconsensual sex. And as you can see, Jooin did not give consent. He was drunk. Sure the Seme is the male lead or whatnot and you like him,but it doesnt excuse what he did. He raped Jooin. No ifs ands or buts. If a guy slept with you and you had no knowledge of it, you would feel violated, wouldnt you? Even if he was attractive or ugly it's still rape. I hope you come to realize what you said was wrong one day..

What good does it do you or anyone to call this situation rape? People in our society are raised on a steady diet of "rape is a horrible crime," and then a bunch of women come along and start calling just about every insensitive, unkind, or abusive behavior rape, serving to terrify men and make them spend their lives walking on eggshells around every woman they meet.
You can't prove, press charges, or call in the cops in a situation like this one, so you can call it rape all you want, but it still doesn't cause any beneficial change to society. Instead of teaching people how to have sex, we teach them how not to. Women seem to be convinced that it's all the man's fault. Is that actually true? I think not.
Talking about sex is stimulating, which scares everyone half to death. jesus. So you train people by terrorizing them on how not to have sex, and let them feel their way by trial and error to find out the rest. It accomplishes nothing to label and criminalize every young man as a rapist who does something stupid, insensitive, and lacking in self-control.

Sis did you even TEAD MY COMMENT?! I dont give a fuck about men. First of all. And second off all the fact of the matter is that rape is rape. Yes theres no proof in this situation,but it's what occurred. and Jooin will probably never know about it unless hes told about it. I dont know why you're fighting me on this FACT. Theres a difference between rape and sexual assault. And idk where you live but men have always had the high ground. From personal experience they DO NOT walk on fucking eggshells. Its 2020, being aware of rape is not BEING SENSITIVE. PEOPLE LIKE YOU are the reason women are too scared to come out about traumatic experiences. And yes OF COURSE there are liars, but the fact is that more often then not these cases are IGNORED. recently over 1700 RAPE KIT TESTS were found untested after they were used. Mysogeny is a disease GET WELL SOON. Guys lie and girls lie about shit all the time but MORE OFTEN THAN NOT they are telling the TRUTH.

yes, I read it. I don't agree that this was rape. Rape is not rape, and calling me a misogynist doesn't phase me anymore. These labels you give people to get them to shut up don't work on me. This top needed to be taught about sensitivity, being aware of your partner, and how to do it, something no one ever talks about. You think you're right because so many people are all parroting the exact same propaganda as you, word for word, like broken records. Don't you get tired of sounding like a self-help tape recording?
I never said people lied about sexual assault. you did. When I see something I'd call rape, I'll say so. I don't think so in this case.

This stuff about being afraid to come out, mmmm I don't think that's the case as much as it once was, but if they are afraid maybe it's because when they do, people don't react the way they expect them to. You seem to believe that everything will be all right if the victim just tells another woman. I don't see how that can be true. One thing I know for sure is that Jooin will not sustain permanent damage from his encounter. It won't scar him for life, and it won't prevent him from having great sex in the future, so call it rape if you like. I wouldn't want to deny you anything that would cloud your joy in life. God knows

on a side note: I can't believe that spell check says "all right" is incorrect.

about what you said, "Yes theres no proof in this situation." Couldn't they just read the manhwa?

I really think you just didn't read or interpret my comment correctly so I won't bother trying to educate you. You can't just consider something as rape or something else as not rape when it fits your narrative. I don't know what you mean by propaganda. If rape is nonconsensual sex.. and there was no consensual sex.. it was rape. It's really not hard to grasp. You just said rape is not rape.. do you hear yourself? In this situation, there wasn't even any condoms used. Imagine if the uke was a girl and she ended up getting pregnant.. is that not bad??? it's rape, plain and simple. Of course you can still love the Manhwa as much s you want.. it doesn't change the plot considering the fact that it's already happened.. but if you reread the scene.. even while intoxicated Jooin says no. If I were to offer you something, and you said no, shouldn't I stop? If rape is not rape.. what do you call it when someone has sex with you against your will? I want to know.

And in the contrary.. idk how you came to the conclusion that I said things would be okay if a womam told her struggles to someone. Most of the time these things are dismissed because there's no proof. But then you're saying to use the Manhwa as proof? They're in the Manhwa what the fuck are you on?

And by you believing rape isn't a horrible crime, you're invalidating those who have actually experienced it and didn't get justice. Educate yourself please.. nothing is more dangerous to a society than a person who is uneducated.

See a fucking doctor. This was rape : yes or no. Yes it was. End of story.

what... he was clearly drunk, and that dude took advantage of it??

YIKES. you do know most ppl that have been r*ped or sexually assaulted have life trauma?? just because you havent experienced it does NOT give you the right to invalidate actual victim's feelings. once again, jooin was literally drunk and not in his right mind. he had no idea what was happening to him. just say you hate women and go

lmao that was a joke, but it just proves that your sense of humor is underdeveloped and starved for attention. LOL

Yes, It does have to fit my narrative in order for me to call it rape.
-Rape is never plain and simple. That kind of thinking can lead to many injustices.
-Consent does not have to be verbal. but if, in your opinion, it has to be verbal, then neither of them gave consent.
-Both individuals are responsible for using protection.
-I never said I loved this manhwa.
-Each individual adult is responsible for his own level of drunkeness. No one should be held responsible for knowing how drunk someone else is - except when the person is clearly not in control of his body, or unless the person is passed out. In that case, knowingly forcing an incapacitated individual is rape.
-saying that you must never have sex with someone who has been drinking is ridiculous. Who on earth is going to enforce such a law? People USUALLY have sex with someone else when each has had some drinks, especially if the relationship is brand new
If someone gives someone a gift and the other person says no, it most often means, "oh no, you shouldn't have!" It's an acceptance, not a rejection. These situations must be on a case by case basis.
-People say no all the time. they also say stop and wait. To be rape, it has to be accompanied by some form of resistance, and I would count it as resistance if the person was verbally insistent. If the "victim" could have walked away, it's not rape. If the couple is concerned, I'd suggest a safe word.
-We still have to be sure that people are innocent until proven guilty.
-I've been waiting my whole life for someone to have sex with me against my will. LOL jk

come on. Unless you tell someone and only keep it to yourself for the rest of your life, it's not even worth discussing.
The exception is, of course, is if the person is afraid or intimidated. Even so, if the rape is never discovered, then why are we even deciding if there's a case for rape?
I guess I did put words in your mouth about discussing it with another woman. please pardon me on that.
There has to be proof. I'll never take someone's word for it when someone's life is at stake.

I think you know that I never said that rape is not a horrible crime. It has to be a horrible crime in order for me to consider it rape.

This coming from someone who chose to name themselves Leviathan. It's the level of insult being slung around that causes me to not take your ass seriously. It's like trying to talk reasonably with wolves and bears in the wilderness

Okay, they have lifelong trauma, what's to be done about it? Whether or not I invalidate their pain is irrelevant. I will say, however, that if a whole society invalidates them, that has to be addressed.
But tell me, how is it to be addressed? Putting rapists in jail isn't going to do much to help someone get over their trauma. That's like saying, because we killed the enemy, we don't have traumatized soldiers.
In this manga situation, it would be stupid to think we could punish the seme. That's never going to happen, and clutching our pearls isn't going to work either. lol. Making it into a legal issue of crime and punishment doesn't restore the victim to their previous state, so what's to be done?
Okay, there are some women I hate. LOL There's some real jackass men, too. Don't get me started.

oh my goodness. The ignorance of this comment is astonishing. Man he was drunk. This seme forced his dick up the uke's ass and the uke wakes up having no recollection of it. How is this right? Rape is non consensual sex. The uke did not give his consent because he was not in the right frame of mind. This is the sick trope of yaoi "youre saying no but your body is saying yes" Like bitch no stfu. No means no. You dont want to see the uke as a victim thats fine whatever but this was rape no point arguing over a fact.

oh I know. Ain't it awful all this astonishing ignorance!
- yeah, I didn't buy the memory loss crap, and if you say stop while you're cumminng, that's not the kind of stop that means stop.
-If you're cumming from the top giving you all kinds of attention on both your dick and ass long enough that you're ready to do it, then you've got yourself a pretty good, considerate seme, and if this seme says preparatory stuff to you like "you started this," and "I'm putting it in," and you stay in position with your ass up, waiting for it, you consented.
This was totally consensual.
The dream stuff - you can say you're you're in fairy land, that doesn't mean the seme should stop. That would usually mean go.
With these stories, if you're old enough to read them, then you're supposed to know how to sort things into priorities. The uke didn't drink enough to black out. That's stupid. One sweet drink in a martini glass, and one sip of a tequila drink that you spit out won't be enough to make an adult black out. no way in hell. never. not gonna happen.
Plus, the bottom was totally lucid during their sex.
There's also this: someone who had enough alcohol to be in a blackout is not going to be able to get hard let alone cum.
Sometimes it's essential to your enjoyment of the story to be able to sort out what's real and what's silly enough to discard. You also need to make room for asian women writers who don't know jack about anal sex except what they read.
You decided that to discard the "sick trope," but if that's part of the story, you need to give it the same weight you're giving the rape bit.
All you guys have is a bunch of rules someone made up and told to you. You shouldn't take people's word for it so much that you're insisting that these rules are universal truth. The shit you believe in and call text book - you've been duped. It's worth considering that adopting a more open mind could benefit you

you can make up your own definitions as you wish.. even if you're wrong

there was no word for it. . you literally saw Jooin get raped.. we all did

propaganda - militant feminist rhetoric (usually in written form) that is everywhere today, made up by people a little to the left of antifa for chrissakes, and sold to impressionable young women who are going to have an almost impossible time of having good - or any kind of - sex due to their heads being stuffed full of rules that have to be followed to the letter by young men who don't understand what the hell is going on with women in general let alone you guys. (wow sorry for the long sentence) Sex is probably life's greatest pleasure, and there's no such thing as a set of infallible rules. Sex has to be discovered by each individual human body. It's too bad you're going to miss out on it.

See this hit too close to home. The body is obviously going to react as the uke even liked the seme so it is obvious he's going to feel good. A similar thing happened to a friend of mine by the time we found her it was a bit too late. She was completely naked and was puking her guts out. It was really late at night I took her to the hospital she was passed out and only woke up in the morning not remembering a single thing. She had feelings for that guy and would not believe when I told her about the things that happened with her. There was no case for the police to take and since we are university students they just told us to forget about it as the victim does not remember anything anyway. We werent planning on reporting anything in the first place since no one has money for lawyers. But being told that... It was a horrible time for both of us. I did not know how to comfort her and the guy just vanished and blocked her on all social media. She did not consent to it but the guy thought she was responding and she probably was but does that make it right? I know this may mean jack shit to you but for me that was the reason this particular scene left a bitter taste.

I believe you. I think you and your friend's case is different than the uke's in the story. It might surprise you to know that I think you did experience something very bad. I felt bad reading it and sort of sick. I think that if you did actually press the matter, you would have a case, and you don't need a lawyer at all. The cops shouldn't have told you to forget it. The police usually have a victim's advocate who has an office at police headquarters. You might want to call and go see them. If for no other reason to tell someone with ears to hear you.
If your friend doesn't remember anything, I doubt if there was any good feelings, and I think the guy is a criminal for what he did

I need to qualify this. when I say feminist, I don't mean the people who are dedicated advocates for women's rights, especially the ones who have for years been fighting for these rights, who have made sacrifices and held onto their principles. I'm talking about something else. There are some people don't have good intentions, and they're pretty scary. I can't go deeply into it, but I don't want to give the impression that I'm against feminists.

Thanks.. yeah while we are at the hospital they did ask my friend to do the SANE test but they gave us a condition that we have to make a case and the result will only be given to us after a year. We had a detective with us on the case and I was the one who called the police..two of my other friends were present as well and we all gave our testimonies, there was cctv footage of him entering and exiting the complex as well. But it all fell flat when my friend could not remember anything. The SANE test is very intrusive and the nurses advised us that even if we do we wont be able to procure the test result and they will be held in court...There was a lot we wanted to do..but we are all dumb teenagers who are living far away from home. So no parental guidance either. My friend was too shocked and nervous and we just ended up dropping the whole thing. It was too much for me to handle as well since I had no clue what to do... Because each question I asked the authorities would only give me roundabout answers that subtly told me to drop it.

Yikes girl. Just yikes. Big yikes.

well, now and for the rest of your life no one is ever going to convince you that you don't know how to be a good friend. Because of you, the people who read this comment get the benefit of your story, and that the difference between a real life story and a fictional story is vast, that credit is yours alone. Also, to you for being brave enough to write this down and tell it. Also, you still, even after such an ordeal, have the brass balls to stand up to a bastard like me and say, look, this is what's what. You're not cowering in a corner. You're still seeking solutions. The adults should have sent you to a counselor, or if they did give you a name, they didn't tell you in a way that you could hear it at the time. That's on them.
-For people who were living for quite a long period of time in a state of shock, it sounds to me like you did amazingly well despite the disorientation. You never had enough information to make the decisions that the adults were requiring you to make. It's terrible, really. You did everything right and people were making you feel like you were doing everything wrong, partly so they could deal with you with as little trouble to themselves as possible, that your efforts to make things right fell on deaf ears, that just because the victim didn't remember, her trauma wasn't real, and that the perpetrator got away with a happy state of no consequences. Even if they're right in advising you not to pursue it, they should have paid you the respect of telling you all these things.
Even now, if you went to just about any therapist, they could help both you and your friend, even if you have to drag her there. This kind of ordeal that happened to you and your friend takes a long time to get through, and the system fails to show people that the three years or so of counseling is as important as getting the rape kit.
You put the fear of god into this perpetrator no matter how he appears on the outside. That's something. I bet he never dares mess with anyone else again, and will probably warn off anyone around him not to. Who else but you could have telegraphed this message to him?

thank you. I didn't actually need you to tell me this, but thanks just the same.

Oh stfu u turd. u don't even know the reason for a username for reading manga. See a doctor and do fellow humans a favor.

Also don't start talking about wolves and bears in the wilderness when you are defending rape and writing Ben Shapiro level retarded essays about it lol. Sit the fuck down child.

That's all you've got? Fling a few insults then run back to your safe space?

Still defending rape? Haven't seen your therapist yet? Talking about safe space and writing shit essays on mangago? Yeah thought so. Keep it going keyboard warrior (づ￣ ³￣)づ