i wondered why i never finished this manga. until i got to chapter 4 and remembered. Ugh. The uke thinking he is desperate to have sex with some random pervert thats trying to rape him. If the seme wouldnt have shown up he seemed to be excited at the thought of having sex with that gross guy.
Then again, his first time was rape, so hes probably messed up mentally.
He once said that he had GFs but then said that Rihito took his first time by force "Did he mean his first time with a guy?"
Then he actually said that he flirted with guys before Rihito ... Or was that after (⊙…⊙ )!
"is Rihito really the first guy he's been with?" I'm confused (╯°Д °)╯╧╧
70 % of the main story is about what got them together and it's repeated AT LEAST 5 times (〜￣△￣)〜 it's too much , though I've read it before but I don't think I'd read it again, it was .. ok I guess (〜￣△￣)〜 like maybe 3 stars?
I usually don't like the "I'm raping you because I love you too much" kind of theme in yaoi, but I actually liked this one. I mean, the dude almost died off alone in a mountain regretting never expressing his feelings and was willing to kill himself after the act, so that makes it redeemable. Plus, he the way he's so obsessed with Michiru is actually funny and cute. You'd think Michiru would be the one stalking him and worrying about him since Rihito is the famous one and at a higher risk to be assaulted but Rihito stalks Michiru instead. It's hilarious and cute
Typical sign of a magazine publication~ The publisher assumes you haven't read the story or anything related to it for a month, so there's usually a recap or the repetition of the last scene of a previous chapter. Usually, the recaps are omitted or replaced in tanko releases; buuut, sometimes the artist can't be bothered and some very interesting continuity issues can crop up--The enthusiastic recap certainly prevents that here ^^;
Is it really that difficult to develop a relationship without resorting to rape? If you're here for the smut, then this series is for you. If you're here for the story/characters, I would say this series isn't worth reading.
The idea of "forced intercourse" and/or "ravishment" is a huge fetish in the pornographic culture of Asian countries (Yes, plot or not, yaoi is pornography by definition). This is due to the extensive and sometimes extreme level of reservedness in these cultures. Things as common in western cutures as public affection or even saying "I love you" (aishiteru vs suki yo/ suki da) are seen as being "too forward", crass and impolite. The concepts behind "ravishment" - which is what 99% of "yaoi rape" entails - is that the aggressor is so overcome with desire for the target, that they are unable to contain or control themselves. The "I want/love you so much I just can't stop myself" trope. In a culture where being "reserved" and "in control of one's self" is paramount, the idea that "ai" (love) or "koi" (desire) could cause one to lose control is very alluring - particularly for women (In the sense that their partner could have overwhelming desire and want to "ravish" them - the uke represents the female in yaoi. Discussing "gender" associated roles in yaoi is for another time). So, yaoi is not promoting the western concept of "rape", but rather the eons old female fantasy of "ravishment". This is why the uke "falls in love" with the aggressor - to not only justify the agressors ravishment, but to justify and promote the fantasy of "ravishment" as well. Pornography is a subtle art, both in producing it and consuming it. There are broad rules and laws governing this medium, but within the community itself prejudice against another's tastes are very relaxed, to the point of non-existence. "One man's freak is another man's fetish". Consumers of pornography recognize and respect this. As readers of yaoi - a form of pornography - we are consumers of this medium as well and should also not be prejudiced against the tastes of others. Particularly the tastes of the ENTIRE culture from which we derive our pornographic material - Japan and Yaoi respectively. I hope this explains why "rape" is found so often in yaoi and has encouraged readers to view this medium and genre with the respect it, it's readers and it's creators deserve.
The idea of "forced intercourse" and/or "ravishment" is a huge fetish in the pornographic culture of Asian countries (Yes, plot or not, yaoi is pornography by definition). This is due to the extensive and somet... Mameiha
Excellent!! So well put. Should be copy & pasted whenever someone makes a 'rape' comment.
Excellent!! So well put. Should be copy & pasted whenever someone makes a 'rape' comment. Amberwaves
Thank you for the compliment. I think it is hard for most western readers of yaoi to grasp the vast cultural differences between us and Japan. We assume they see the world just like us, but fundamentally this is not the case. Things are changing, but they change much slower there. Traditional views are extremely important to their cultural identity, where western cultures shed tradition as quickly and as often as possible as part of our cultural identity. I don't necessarily agree with eastern cultures' views on homosexuality and the roles of women. However, I do understand where those views originate and I respect their culture enough to not belittle it for being different from my own. Hopefully, when others understand the cultural differences, they will be able to enjoy yaoi even more. (⌒▽⌒)
Thank you for the compliment. I think it is hard for most western readers of yaoi to grasp the vast cultural differences between us and Japan. We assume they see the world just like us, but fundamentally this i... Mameiha
It is a somewhat recent tradition, if I'm not mistaken, due to the influence of the Westernization program of the late 1800's. My impression was that historically Japanese culture was far more accepting and relaxed about homosexuality and nudity (joint baths). Gender roles probably have shifted throughout the ages, but the Victorian influence could not have been a positive one, on a society that already practiced restraint. Combining the repressed Victorianism with the already restrained Japanese, and you will get a very odd mix.
Thank you for the compliment. I think it is hard for most western readers of yaoi to grasp the vast cultural differences between us and Japan. We assume they see the world just like us, but fundamentally this i... Mameiha
Yaoi itself is such an interesting genre to study as it seems to evolve as women's desires evolve. Another reason for the rape trope could be in direct response to Japan's patriarchal society. Women are often looked down upon, abused, and put at the mercy of their male counterparts in society. In yaoi, where a male takes on the traditionally female role, men are subjected to similar treatment. And I think the rape trope is a perfect embodiment of that.
I also very much agree with the "overcome with desire" theory, but I think it goes even beyond that, as we see overly aggressive characters in shoujo/josei/etc. Not to mention that whole kabe-don thing...But I digress. What I meant to say was that maybe because yaoi uses male characters instead of female, the (largely female) authors and fan base can take their fantasies to the extreme. The characters can get away with being even worse because the audience would feel much less sympathy for a male. Might be me reading into things too much, but I find all manga targeting females to be fascinating material for sociological/anthropological research and all that ლ(´ڡ`ლ)
Yaoi itself is such an interesting genre to study as it seems to evolve as women's desires evolve. Another reason for the rape trope could be in direct response to Japan's patriarchal society. Women are often l... narutolvr
An absolutely fascinating take on the yaoi genre and rape trope... one I have also often considered. I think we could discuss the nuances of each trope for days and still have material to discuss. It is also one of the many reasons I love this genre. So much information can be gleaned about the human psyche when you take the time to read deeper and research each fetish or trope. That's not even taking into account the "innocent" fetishes like food or the mangaka's views of romance. There is so much more to manga and yaoi than just a comic book or "boys love".
The idea of "forced intercourse" and/or "ravishment" is a huge fetish in the pornographic culture of Asian countries (Yes, plot or not, yaoi is pornography by definition). This is due to the extensive and somet... Mameiha
Dude this is the best essay on porn I've ever read. *applause* honestly I learn more from the comments section on this website than at school.
Dude this is the best essay on porn I've ever read. *applause* honestly I learn more from the comments section on this website than at school. SomewhereOverTheTARDIS
Thank you. I'd love to have a longer and more in depth discussion with you if you were interested. You can mail me here and we can find a chat venue from there.
Thank you. I'd love to have a longer and more in depth discussion with you if you were interested. You can mail me here and we can find a chat venue from there. Mameiha
Afraid have to decline, the reason is long and complicated, not personal. If we did continue to discuss things it'd be best if it was done on this comments thread. I'm sorry again.
The idea of "forced intercourse" and/or "ravishment" is a huge fetish in the pornographic culture of Asian countries (Yes, plot or not, yaoi is pornography by definition). This is due to the extensive and somet... Mameiha
Wow! What you wrote was impressive and beautifully written! You did a very nice job at explaining a topic a great number of yaoi readers find to be very sensitive. I personally don't have any issues with rape in yaoi because this is all fictional material that isn't meant to be taken seriously, since its sole purpose is to entertain the reader. That being said, what you wrote actually explained to me what yaoi is in a way that I had never heard before, and that helped me understand how so many westerners could find sensitive topics such as rape so off-putting. Thanks for the detailed explanation! It really is great! (▰˘◡˘▰)
The sequel to this is "Star Ni Ai"- I wish I would have known from the start because I read the other one first and then found out that this was the first one...so if you want to know what happened from the end of this go check that one.
Topics
erm what the flip
i wondered why i never finished this manga. until i got to chapter 4 and remembered. Ugh. The uke thinking he is desperate to have sex with some random pervert thats trying to rape him. If the seme wouldnt have shown up he seemed to be excited at the thought of having sex with that gross guy.
Then again, his first time was rape, so hes probably messed up mentally.
I actually have a few questions, like
He once said that he had GFs but then said that Rihito took his first time by force
"Did he mean his first time with a guy?"
Then he actually said that he flirted with guys before Rihito ... Or was that after (⊙…⊙ )!
"is Rihito really the first guy he's been with?"
I'm confused (╯°Д °)╯╧╧
70 % of the main story is about what got them together and it's repeated AT LEAST 5 times (〜￣△￣)〜 it's too much , though I've read it before but I don't think I'd read it again, it was .. ok I guess (〜￣△￣)〜 like maybe 3 stars?
I just enjoy the first story..,,
I usually don't like the "I'm raping you because I love you too much" kind of theme in yaoi, but I actually liked this one. I mean, the dude almost died off alone in a mountain regretting never expressing his feelings and was willing to kill himself after the act, so that makes it redeemable. Plus, he the way he's so obsessed with Michiru is actually funny and cute. You'd think Michiru would be the one stalking him and worrying about him since Rihito is the famous one and at a higher risk to be assaulted but Rihito stalks Michiru instead. It's hilarious and cute
this mangaka is an artist love the art & story <333333
Am I the only one that loves the art even tho. It's weird
i like the first story, but its annoying that he keeps mentioning the mishap.
Typical sign of a magazine publication~ The publisher assumes you haven't read the story or anything related to it for a month, so there's usually a recap or the repetition of the last scene of a previous chapter. Usually, the recaps are omitted or replaced in tanko releases; buuut, sometimes the artist can't be bothered and some very interesting continuity issues can crop up--The enthusiastic recap certainly prevents that here ^^;
I love the baseball story better than the 1st story
me too. i wish we would see how they met again.
you can
http://www.mangago.me/read-manga/star_ni_ai/mf/v01/c003/
Is it really that difficult to develop a relationship without resorting to rape? If you're here for the smut, then this series is for you. If you're here for the story/characters, I would say this series isn't worth reading.
It's a cliché in Yaoi manga. I still don't get people complaining about it, it's nearly in every yaoi manga, you should be already used to it.
The idea of "forced intercourse" and/or "ravishment" is a huge fetish in the pornographic culture of Asian countries (Yes, plot or not, yaoi is pornography by definition). This is due to the extensive and sometimes extreme level of reservedness in these cultures. Things as common in western cutures as public affection or even saying "I love you" (aishiteru vs suki yo/ suki da) are seen as being "too forward", crass and impolite. The concepts behind "ravishment" - which is what 99% of "yaoi rape" entails - is that the aggressor is so overcome with desire for the target, that they are unable to contain or control themselves. The "I want/love you so much I just can't stop myself" trope. In a culture where being "reserved" and "in control of one's self" is paramount, the idea that "ai" (love) or "koi" (desire) could cause one to lose control is very alluring - particularly for women (In the sense that their partner could have overwhelming desire and want to "ravish" them - the uke represents the female in yaoi. Discussing "gender" associated roles in yaoi is for another time). So, yaoi is not promoting the western concept of "rape", but rather the eons old female fantasy of "ravishment". This is why the uke "falls in love" with the aggressor - to not only justify the agressors ravishment, but to justify and promote the fantasy of "ravishment" as well.
Pornography is a subtle art, both in producing it and consuming it. There are broad rules and laws governing this medium, but within the community itself prejudice against another's tastes are very relaxed, to the point of non-existence. "One man's freak is another man's fetish". Consumers of pornography recognize and respect this. As readers of yaoi - a form of pornography - we are consumers of this medium as well and should also not be prejudiced against the tastes of others. Particularly the tastes of the ENTIRE culture from which we derive our pornographic material - Japan and Yaoi respectively.
I hope this explains why "rape" is found so often in yaoi and has encouraged readers to view this medium and genre with the respect it, it's readers and it's creators deserve.
Excellent!! So well put. Should be copy & pasted whenever someone makes a 'rape' comment.
Thank you for the compliment. I think it is hard for most western readers of yaoi to grasp the vast cultural differences between us and Japan. We assume they see the world just like us, but fundamentally this is not the case. Things are changing, but they change much slower there. Traditional views are extremely important to their cultural identity, where western cultures shed tradition as quickly and as often as possible as part of our cultural identity. I don't necessarily agree with eastern cultures' views on homosexuality and the roles of women. However, I do understand where those views originate and I respect their culture enough to not belittle it for being different from my own. Hopefully, when others understand the cultural differences, they will be able to enjoy yaoi even more. (⌒▽⌒)
It is a somewhat recent tradition, if I'm not mistaken, due to the influence of the Westernization program of the late 1800's. My impression was that historically Japanese culture was far more accepting and relaxed about homosexuality and nudity (joint baths). Gender roles probably have shifted throughout the ages, but the Victorian influence could not have been a positive one, on a society that already practiced restraint. Combining the repressed Victorianism with the already restrained Japanese, and you will get a very odd mix.
Yaoi itself is such an interesting genre to study as it seems to evolve as women's desires evolve. Another reason for the rape trope could be in direct response to Japan's patriarchal society. Women are often looked down upon, abused, and put at the mercy of their male counterparts in society. In yaoi, where a male takes on the traditionally female role, men are subjected to similar treatment. And I think the rape trope is a perfect embodiment of that.
I also very much agree with the "overcome with desire" theory, but I think it goes even beyond that, as we see overly aggressive characters in shoujo/josei/etc. Not to mention that whole kabe-don thing...But I digress. What I meant to say was that maybe because yaoi uses male characters instead of female, the (largely female) authors and fan base can take their fantasies to the extreme. The characters can get away with being even worse because the audience would feel much less sympathy for a male. Might be me reading into things too much, but I find all manga targeting females to be fascinating material for sociological/anthropological research and all that ლ(´ڡ`ლ)
An absolutely fascinating take on the yaoi genre and rape trope... one I have also often considered. I think we could discuss the nuances of each trope for days and still have material to discuss. It is also one of the many reasons I love this genre. So much information can be gleaned about the human psyche when you take the time to read deeper and research each fetish or trope. That's not even taking into account the "innocent" fetishes like food or the mangaka's views of romance. There is so much more to manga and yaoi than just a comic book or "boys love".
Dude this is the best essay on porn I've ever read. *applause* honestly I learn more from the comments section on this website than at school.
Thank you. I'd love to have a longer and more in depth discussion with you if you were interested. You can mail me here and we can find a chat venue from there.
Afraid have to decline, the reason is long and complicated, not personal. If we did continue to discuss things it'd be best if it was done on this comments thread. I'm sorry again.
There's this genre call shounen ai which is a genre that focus on the feelings more, and yaoi is focusing on the sex more (sorry for the bad grammar)
Wow! What you wrote was impressive and beautifully written! You did a very nice job at explaining a topic a great number of yaoi readers find to be very sensitive. I personally don't have any issues with rape in yaoi because this is all fictional material that isn't meant to be taken seriously, since its sole purpose is to entertain the reader. That being said, what you wrote actually explained to me what yaoi is in a way that I had never heard before, and that helped me understand how so many westerners could find sensitive topics such as rape so off-putting. Thanks for the detailed explanation! It really is great! (▰˘◡˘▰)
The sequel to this is "Star Ni Ai"- I wish I would have known from the start because I read the other one first and then found out that this was the first one...so if you want to know what happened from the end of this go check that one.