Maybe I'm old, maybe I've been on these sites for too many decades now. But I have noticed a genuine issue in how spoilers are handled and how people (especially the young people) on this site flood the comments with "spoilers?" And "what tropes does this have before I read it". Etc etc. And most often I see these things on stuff that Just started, or before they even start reading chapter 1. What happened to make people unwilling to just read something for themselves? And so so often, these spoilers I see, are Wrong or misinterpreted by someone who didn't even read the original novel. It's a fucked up game of telephone and leaves readers not even picking something up bc they "heard" it has a bad ending. It's totally understandable to not want to waste time on something you don't think you'd like. But there IS a difference between "yeah I don't think into that" and "is this virginxvirgin? How does it end? When does xyz happen? Is he a playboy? They better not get together in the end" When did y'all become so unwilling to read something that doesn't fit your checklist? Since when did reading become about picking.. pizza toppings? What happened to reading bc of the journey? The character development? The main themes and lessons? The things that will make you change as an individual? I'm begging you young readers to not fall into anti- intellectualism. Practice patience, mark your spoilers for fuck sakes there is literally a button for that very purpose, and read a work Fully before calling it toxic or a "black/red flag". And for the love of God don't call readers that enjoyed something you didn't abusers bc they enjoyed stories with darker themes.
Reading is about so so much more than just stay in your comfort zone, it's about exploring and expanding your mind. Yes a lot of things read here are just fun stories but there are so so many with indepth discussions on humanity and love and relationships. By only reading what you're comfortable with you do what those who make book bans want btw.
the entire world's going through a literacy crisis rn fr BUT.... i do feel as though the standards are lower when it comes to genres whose main purpose isn't to encourage discussion or tell a story, especially on mgg where the top works are always smut. most of the works on here are easy to read and free to read, which allows people to interact loosely with it and not immerse themselves in the story since they didn't pay for it, if that makes sense. i think you see many people asking for spoilers bc most of the time the story is further along either through untranslated chs or the untranslated original source material, both of which are unaccessable to most users on here. on the other hand i feel like the only acceptable spoilers are if there's untagged sa which is unfortunately so normalized in these genres that even the official publishers don't acknowledge it.
admittedly i too personally mostly engage with works that have tropes and dynamics that i like (lmfao) and that's bc 1. i don't feel a monetary responsiblity to read works i don't prefer and 2. there will almost always be alternatives due to how manga and manhwa are mass produced. i feel that may apply to other users here. but the comments are tropified to hell and back bc the works on here are tropified to hell and back. even the western professionally publishing world has been tropified.
i fully agree with your last point bc i've seen so many people call guwon from hounds of sisyphus a red/black flag and wish death on him when there's only been one season and barely any of the plot has been revealed LIKE GIVE HIM A CHANCE AND LET THE AUTHOR COOK
I def think 2 things can be true. There are works here that are "popcorn reads" fun but not meant to be fulfilling and I've enjoyed them, and there are works that are seen and can be easy reads that do have depth and are more than just tropes. I also think smut stories absolutely can have deep themes as well!
I absolutely agree the way comments are now are just "trope xyz is bad" or "trope xyz is the best ever" and no further analysis or anything meaningful.
Heavy on guwon for sure. The way people demonize people that enjoy a black flag character or even a POTENTIAL black flag is just .. so weird?? Like I think my most recent favorite (that I wish I owned physically) is My beloved Oppressor. I read it from the first chapter drop. Every comment was all about how evil he was and how anyone that likes the story/him/character development is just evil. And it's ridiculous??? Plus the ending was BEAUTIFUL and so well done!! I even saw comments that hated him at first come around and admit they even cried at the end!
To me that's the beauty of reading. Letting your mind be changed and let it change you as a person.
I think its derivative of fandom behavior, which fandom itself is an extensions capitalism / other isms. Ao3 works are composed almost entirely on tropes and established dynamics that the author and the reader alike don't have to reach or try for something of substance.
But honestly, Idk if we should say too much on people looking for tropes in books, because the current mamwha/hua/ga industry suffers a lot of the same problem ao3 stories have. They start with a trope and build out from that. A lot of these books can't stand alone without these schemas to orient themself.
Nevertheless, you are describing a real problem, and there are plenty of mainstream and non mainstream books where people try to box them into a category it doesn't fit in to take off the cognitive load of understanding a story. Just wanted to put some perspective on the why and where. It's irritating, but a lot of these people read to turn their brain off
Oh for sure! Ao3 and the like make sense and I don't have a problem with tropes existing or people like certain tropes (I know I have a few I'm attached to and search for when looking for something new) it's just the way they're handled and discussed now. As if there is also a moral superiority to certain tropes. When tropes are just.. descriptors ! I might slightly disagree with the tropes exist first, just bc I don't think a lot of writers are picking out tropes off a tree yk? Often these tropes exist bc a story is wanting to be told and the tropes fall into it bc of how it's written. It's definitely another failure of capitalism. X + Y = money. I think it's ok to have popcorn reads, I have my own for sure. But the way I see so many here talk about tropes... It's honestly a little scary.
I absolutely agree!! I think that unfortunately is a side effect of capitalism and the companies these authors work for. They see tropes as easy money making formulas. Childhood friends + isekai + magic = money !! It's unfortunate bc tropes can exist but the "I only like these tropes" and "only these tropes are good" etc etc is just disheartening. There's nothing wrong with tropes themselves but the way they're handled now is just... Whew
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the entire world's going through a literacy crisis rn fr BUT.... i do feel as though the standards are lower when it comes to genres whose main purpose isn't to encourage discussion or tell a story, especially on mgg where the top works are always smut. most of the works on here are easy to read and free to read, which allows people to interact loosely with it and not immerse themselves in the story since they didn't pay for it, if that makes sense. i think you see many people asking for spoilers bc most of the time the story is further along either through untranslated chs or the untranslated original source material, both of which are unaccessable to most users on here. on the other hand i feel like the only acceptable spoilers are if there's untagged sa which is unfortunately so normalized in these genres that even the official publishers don't acknowledge it.
admittedly i too personally mostly engage with works that have tropes and dynamics that i like (lmfao) and that's bc 1. i don't feel a monetary responsiblity to read works i don't prefer and 2. there will almost always be alternatives due to how manga and manhwa are mass produced. i feel that may apply to other users here. but the comments are tropified to hell and back bc the works on here are tropified to hell and back. even the western professionally publishing world has been tropified.
i fully agree with your last point bc i've seen so many people call guwon from hounds of sisyphus a red/black flag and wish death on him when there's only been one season and barely any of the plot has been revealed LIKE GIVE HIM A CHANCE AND LET THE AUTHOR COOK
I def think 2 things can be true. There are works here that are "popcorn reads" fun but not meant to be fulfilling and I've enjoyed them, and there are works that are seen and can be easy reads that do have depth and are more than just tropes.
I also think smut stories absolutely can have deep themes as well!
I absolutely agree the way comments are now are just "trope xyz is bad" or "trope xyz is the best ever" and no further analysis or anything meaningful.
Heavy on guwon for sure. The way people demonize people that enjoy a black flag character or even a POTENTIAL black flag is just .. so weird??
Like I think my most recent favorite (that I wish I owned physically) is My beloved Oppressor. I read it from the first chapter drop. Every comment was all about how evil he was and how anyone that likes the story/him/character development is just evil. And it's ridiculous??? Plus the ending was BEAUTIFUL and so well done!! I even saw comments that hated him at first come around and admit they even cried at the end!
To me that's the beauty of reading. Letting your mind be changed and let it change you as a person.
I think its derivative of fandom behavior, which fandom itself is an extensions capitalism / other isms. Ao3 works are composed almost entirely on tropes and established dynamics that the author and the reader alike don't have to reach or try for something of substance.
But honestly, Idk if we should say too much on people looking for tropes in books, because the current mamwha/hua/ga industry suffers a lot of the same problem ao3 stories have. They start with a trope and build out from that. A lot of these books can't stand alone without these schemas to orient themself.
Nevertheless, you are describing a real problem, and there are plenty of mainstream and non mainstream books where people try to box them into a category it doesn't fit in to take off the cognitive load of understanding a story. Just wanted to put some perspective on the why and where. It's irritating, but a lot of these people read to turn their brain off
Oh for sure! Ao3 and the like make sense and I don't have a problem with tropes existing or people like certain tropes (I know I have a few I'm attached to and search for when looking for something new) it's just the way they're handled and discussed now. As if there is also a moral superiority to certain tropes. When tropes are just.. descriptors !
I might slightly disagree with the tropes exist first, just bc I don't think a lot of writers are picking out tropes off a tree yk? Often these tropes exist bc a story is wanting to be told and the tropes fall into it bc of how it's written.
It's definitely another failure of capitalism. X + Y = money.
I think it's ok to have popcorn reads, I have my own for sure. But the way I see so many here talk about tropes... It's honestly a little scary.
It's not just the readers it's the writers too every single new bl are basically just the same 5 tropes
I absolutely agree!! I think that unfortunately is a side effect of capitalism and the companies these authors work for. They see tropes as easy money making formulas. Childhood friends + isekai + magic = money !!
It's unfortunate bc tropes can exist but the "I only like these tropes" and "only these tropes are good" etc etc is just disheartening. There's nothing wrong with tropes themselves but the way they're handled now is just... Whew