Yoonbum and Sangwoo's relationship isn't romantic.

i just made this topic for the debating to see what other people thought and to get insight into what the other opinions are really made of, that's all. i didn't create it to hate or for anyone to recieve hate. and at the beginning i said every man to their own [opinion]. thank you.

Completely agree, wish you could like replies haha

true lmao. thanks <3

Th problems of gay people living in japan are not *caused* by BL or yaoi, though I understand the fans have a bad rep in many circles. The problems are cause by how people act in real life. With all respect to the feelings of people ins elected documentaries, that's not how causation works. You describe a social and cultural problem (one that happens in other places too). But it's not stories that *cause* it--it's the fact that some people Japanese society feel they can treat others this way because they happen to be males in same sex relationships.

Straight men often fertilizes women in same sex relationships too--and this may or may not lead to inappropriate behavior. But it isn't the "lesbian" porn made for straight men that makes some men act that way--those men would probably be inappropriate to many women in any situation where they have the power and social sanction to do so. It's about what society finds acceptable and how we treat people in real life.

In the US, the term "fag hag" originally meant women who liked hitting on gay men. Some use it ironically or even affectionately, but at it's heart, the term meant creepy women who pursue gay the way a "dirty old man" pursues young women. This happens without BL or Yaoi influencing the "hag". The problem is that US society (and many others) does not have enough respect for people's personal boundaries in real life, not that people have bad fantasies.

I think the answer is to change what is consider acceptable behavior by people in real life to tell others that this sort of thing is not cool (whenever it is safe to do so). Perhaps there may be a need to examine the roots of how we treat sex and sexuality--but the focus needs to be on real life behaviors. For most people, fantasies do not cause direct copying of behaviors--behaviors are rooted in individual social skills and rules about what is considered socially acceptable in various situations.

BTW, rape tropes are also prevalent in Bara, which is primarily by gay men for gay men. And gay men can get handy with each other in real life too. Some gay men will inappropriately touch women too, and claim it's okay because the man is gay--ignoring the fact that the problem is that any person should have the right not to be touched unless they want to be whether it is sexual or not. So, what I am saying is that the issue is rooted n social rules, not fantasy, and solving the problem lies in changing the social rules in real life.

LOL, I mean fetishisize, not fertilize. Bloody auto-spell. But it adds humor. (⌒▽⌒)

I just....don't understand why you so badly want to deny and defend that people are reading this, misinterpreting it, and fetishizing it in unhealthy ways. No, not everyone is. The story isn't wrong for existing. The story is not problematic, but a lot of people reading it ARE. Thats honestly all that needs to be said. You can bring up causation all you want but that doesn't change the fact that condoning people doing this is harmful. Nobody is saying its ONLY damaging for people to like reading rape fantasies (as you bring up in your last paragraph). For a lot of people it can be helpful and they can handle it responsibly, but the matter here is that there are people that are handling it wrong, people are pointing it out, and then others are condemning people for pointing it out. Honestly, what you are arguing isn't what people are arguing here so idk why you keep trying to turn it into that. People are arguing that there are people not treating this story right and that aren't mature enough for this very mature topic.

Also, how can you even say all that stuff that has literally nothing to do with anything being discussed. Kind of seems like you're trying to manipulate the information to support arguing something completely irrelevant. But idk, maybe to you it makes sense, but it does not seem relevant to go into what you're going into.

Also I did not say the problems faced by gay people in Japan are created by bl fans. But some problems they face are created EXCLUSIVELY by bl fans. People that hate gay people aren't harassing gay people in the same ways bl fans are. People that dislike or discourage gay relationships aren't the ones going up to them and asking strangers to tell them about their sex lives. It is the fact that people DONT call out bl fans for their inappropriate behavior or point out flaws in their ways of thinking and actively discourage others from doing so, in SOME cases. Nothing I am saying is applicable to all, as you seem to misunderstand, I just want to clear that up.

None of anything I was arguing was about people having "bad fantasies". You are arguing a completely different point than me and continue to do so.

not to intrude on your debate, but i've seen you two on multiple threads arguing and while both of you have good points, you aren't talking about the same things. i would suggest just agreeing to disagree because the topic has shifted from killing stalking to how gay men are treated in japan (not a bad thing to discuss, but the argument is going nowhere) thank you both for sharing your opinion s though <3

I agree and thats what I've been saying. We aren't even arguing about the same thing lol

I will agree to disagree. It is off topic. But just know I'm dying inside to explain to you why I think what you are saying fits into what I said. (●￣(ｴ)￣●)

thank you~

I just finished reading an essay (⊙…⊙ )

lmao, sorry about that heh