Bruh

Yo if Yoshino falls for him rn what makes her different from any other fl who is self effacing in the name of love and just self sacrificing for their significant other? I would just lose respect for her. And he know he is yakuza blah blah blah, we just ship her more with other people like Shouma for example

I’m kinda confused how is she self effacing or self sacrificing?

How is she self-effacing and self-sacrificing? Dismissing the fact that she and Shouma see each other as family and would never go there together because of it is also weird.

They walked into a seinen and are looking at it like it’s supposed to be a shoujo/Josei.

He doesn’t have basic respect for her, she currently knows that, she is aware of it right now and that is why she acts the way she does now now and that’s why I like her, she doesn’t take his shit, he may have some sick twisted form of obsession for her but that’s completely one sided and all of his actions speak to him just not having actual respect for her and her choices.

When did he lack basic respect? I ask this, hoping you’re not about to mention that he was seeing other women before they officially chose to become a couple. They were in an arranged marriage that meant nothing more than a way to keep her safe. She cared so little about the fact that he was with other women that she helped him shop for his lovers. He hasn’t been with any of his side pieces ever since they chose to become a couple more than 20 chapters ago.

And no, it’s no longer one-sided. The way she felt after he went missing, unable to sleep and only capable of finding solace when she saw him again, shows she started having feelings. It’s small and it’s slow but it’s coming. Those last few chapters were crucial steps in that direction.

I’m talking about the whole treating her like garbage to the extent she sold her kidney in the beginning to manipulate her into staying with him and “protecting” by doing doing shit covertly and not telling her of her situation and the danger she truly is in, that’s what I’m talking about, I’m not talking about sleeping with the other women thing because they weren’t in an actual relationship until she lost the bet. Also the thing where if she does find a lover or whatever he will kill them despite also somehow being ok with her having a lover.

The garbage treatment you’re referring to began at chapter 1 and ended at chapter at 2. We find out they’re in an arranged engagement he doesn’t want to be in because he felt she wasn’t as fun as he thought she would be when he spied on her as a kid. He says what he says to instill enough fear in her so she’ll break the engagement herself since he can’t break it on his end. She pretends to have sold her kidney. He realizes that the girl he was into as a kid is the girl she is now. He falls in love. He no longer treats her that way. We technically have about 70 something chapters of this story. Why stay stuck on the first 2 chapters?

Not telling her shxt and doing things covertly is simply the way they are as yakuza. I don’t really know why that’s something meant to be argued over. He’s essentially a lapdog to his own grandfather. He was given the order to protect her and he’s done anything and everything to see that through. I’m guessing his and her family stayed at the top of the food chain as yakuzas because their way of doing things works in the long run.

His twisted desires about her having a lover or not doesn’t really fall under treating her like garbage or under her self-effacing… that kind of went away from the arguments you were making.

It was recently revealed that he was a massive dick to her in the beginning for two reasons, one to see if he actually truly (was obsessed?) loved her and would lay down his life AND to make sure Yoshino isn’t mean and doesn’t look down on him because she has a tendency to do that if you’re a sick to her with no backbone or if she doesn’t like you.

He isn’t a lapdog to his granduncle, he wasn’t coerced or forced to be, he chooses to do be it because he didn’t really have a purpose in life and his grandfather is the only person he could kind of relate to. Let’s not forget his backstory shows he’s been fucked in the head with pseudo psychopathic, masochistic, and sadistic tendencies as a child even with normal loving parents. He doesn’t really follow any rules unless he wants to and he didn’t have to manipulate her behaviour into doing what he wanted her to do while keeping her in the dark. Once again, he doesn’t respect her or her decisions.

You’re right, this is very Yakuza, he isn’t that different from most Yakuza MLs, the difference between this story and others is that he is slightly more confusing and psychotic, they don’t have a giant age gap (usually fl is young maybe hs and ml is much older, at least 5-6 years older), and Yoshino. Yoshino is what makes this manga special, her self respect, her intelligence, and her ability to make decisions and weigh options and not take shit from people. They might end up together (I don’t want them to but I’m not totally opposed if we get more character development) and it probably is a long slow burn, and I don’t really mind that if it aligns with what we’ve seen of her personality so far. And I don’t think that strong willed queen Yoshino would fall for Kirishima at his current state, he needs more character development, much more. I would be disappointed if she did. Because what would be the difference between her and other fls in yakuza stories then? She waited longer??? Really what character development has he had since like ch 3? Other than it being revealed that he has genuine feelings (obsession??) for her.

1. When you read chapters 1 and 2 after the flashback reveals, you realize that once they finally met, he was disappointed in in who he felt she was, feeling that he’d misjudged her character. Which is why in the end he snapped out of character and tried to scare her into leaving since he wasn’t with that. When he realized that she actually was what he wanted, protecting her stopped being a favor he was doing for her grandfather/or an order given to him by his own grandfather. It’s something he chose himself. Still not sure why we’re stuck on chapters 1 and 2.

2.1. … when did I say he was coerced or forced into anything? The facts are what they are. Why is this a debate? I was talking about his role within the yakuza to explain the secrecy, not trying to argue over it. We’ve already established that he has a twisted mind and we all know that it’s because of it that he was able to find a place where he fit and that’s that. I’m not trying to debate the yakuza with you.

2.2. The manipulation aspect is also totally lost on me. What Kirishima manipulates is situations, to his advantage. But Yoshino herself? That just doesn’t track. He likes her as authentic as she is. Hell, he hides too many things for him to need to manipulate her in the first place.

3. I don’t know what other yakuza mangas you’ve read, but genre matters. Seinen is typically written in this vein as a reflection of people with a debatable sense of morality. It’s meant for an older audience who can grasp the shades of grey in the story because good and bad aren’t all there is. So the point is for Yoshino to fall for Kirishima because of who he is at his core. She wouldn’t fall for him any other way. He can’t fake stuff or pretend anything, he has to be himself. This is who he is. This is what she’s falling for. I don’t know what kind of character development you’re looking for, but he’s not going to become some good guy. Nothing about the way he or this story is written suggests that.

I am not hung up on the first two chapters, why are you hung up on this point? It was RECENTLY revealed, in the past few chs what Kirishima’s perspective could be and what the deal with her grandfather was, and why he chose to act the way he did in the beginning, why do you disregard that? Please reread my first paragraph on the reasons.

Those reasons were manipulative, he is manipulative and I’m not saying he’s “coerced” I’m saying his character is such that he doesn’t truly feel much for his grand uncle other than as a place belong in right now, and he doesn’t need to be secretive to her because he doesn’t care about rules in general, he follows what he wants to. His character isn’t about absolute loyalty to the Yakuza, it’s rules, and his grand uncle. You can’t just chalk him being withholding of information up to him being Yakuza, that’s a cop out and not really understanding his character.

Please tell me other seinen yakuza manga, I’d like to know what you’re talking about. Regardless of genre that’s literally what all yakuza mangas deal with, greys of morality, the yakuza character never ends up being a straight good guy or bad guy, don’t try to diminish other genres. And if you can’t see that every action he has done in regards to Yoshino is manipulative then I don’t know what to say. He isn’t being strong armed to keep her in the dark about anything. Keeping things a secret and controlling situations to get a certain outcome is inherently manipulative. Once again you can’t say “he’s yakuza that’s the way it is”. I don’t expect him to suddenly become a good person but at this current point he doesn’t really respect Yoshino and I’d be disappointed in Yoshino for falling for him. Being disrespectful isn’t synonymous with being “morally grey”. She’s been a wonderful level headed and intelligent character with bursts of being friggin yakuza as hell. All story has character development and he hasn’t really had any throughout the story.

But when you found out what was recently revealed, didn’t you go back to chapter 1 &2 to reevaluate that exchange between them? Even as he follows his grandfather’s order, Kirishima ultimately did what he personally needed to know in order to assess if he was truly interested in Yoshino. The flashback isn’t limited to what Yoshino’s grandfather told her. His interactions as a kid matter too. We’ve seen from the flashbacks of him growing up that he was genuinely curious as to why he was expected to behave a certain way and he tried and tried to fit in. Faked his way through shxt. He fakes his way through a lot of relationships with regular people. That’s why when he met Yoshino, she came off as too normal at first, which turned out to be a disappointment to him. So he faked being nice too. He was going to protect her just because he’d been ordered to, not because that’s what he genuinely wanted to do. Then he broke out of character and showed her his true colors. That’s why later on, as he kept telling her he loved her, she told him that for her to fall for him, he’d need to be himself. None of that fake shxt meant to lull someone into a false sense of security. Him being ready to die for her is him protecting het out of his own volition. Who he is, is what’s she meant to fall for. I really wouldn’t hope for some drastic change in character if I were you. The tone was set the moment she told him to be himself in order for her to love him.

If you think he doesn’t actually follow rules then you might need to re-read this. He’s a wolf card, yet, but there are core yakuza rules he’s meant to follow. Does he break them sometimes to get what he wants? Yes. Because he’s a wild card. But he always gets a beating because of it. So he otherwise does follow those rules. Someone who is as much as a loose canon as you’re making him out to be wouldn’t be working under his grandfather. It’s not sustainable.

Yakuza isn’t a genre. The genre is seinen. Like shoujo is a genre. Josei is a genre, etc. Mangas that fall under seinen is what I’m talking about.

I still fail to see the manipulation and lack of respect he has for her.

2 additional comments-:

- him being manipulative isn’t the same as him manipulating her. If you’re saying he’s manipulating her, I need to understand how he’s doing that.

- Also, this: “you can’t just say “ he’s yakuza that’s the way it is”” …

I can’t say that because…? You lost me there.

I didn’t end up reading that whole argument but I agree with you on this point that you’re making here. They really didn’t give a reason why you can just say “It’s because he’s a yakuza” and just said you can’t say that when in all actuality, you can say that. He kills, he’s violent, he sleeps around, and it’s partly because he’s a yakuza, and partly because that’s just the way he is. I don’t think they understand that the yakuza is like a gang in the U.S, the mafia in Italy, and the cartel in Mexico. And people from these groups kill people, are often times violent, and a majority sleep around.