i love your point
and the people is I don't think many adults are reading this
. and also there's this new trend where people read things that make them uncomfortable and instead of dropping it they camp in the comments and whine about it and attach people.
Preach babes
100000000% like the current culture of stigmatizing readers who enjoy dark themes and imposing personal (and usually Western) morality on fiction is not my favorite.
I also read The Kite Runner and other 'morally questionable' books in school like Animal Farm, In Cold Blood, Lolita, etc. and while I didn't 100% understand the themes it was understood that we read those books to expose ourselves to different shades of morality in fiction—good and bad—and to critically think about the book as a whole. Would I condone the morally questionable themes irl? No, but at the end of the day I'm able to separate fiction from reality and judge those works by its plot and characters vs. whether its themes align with my moral compass irl.
It's wild reading the comments here vs comments from KR/JPN readers because the latter is mostly things like "omg Heonjae don't kill your brother!!" or "I just want them to have a threesome" or "This is delicious" and just general excitement for the plot to move forward lol
Huh?! How is Animal Farm even considered à morally questionable book? That’s just a typical dystopia novel denouncing dictorship? 0-o Are you from the USA perhaps?
That apart, I find the way Lolita is treated astounding TwT This book was written to denounce grooming and p, it is designed to make people uneasy in order to denounce the thing. And some people still call it p apology when it does the exact opposite TwT
Love u for this take. I think purity culture especially in America (ESP in the bible belt where I'm from) is insane and while dark and mature themes are definitely intense, it's a fact of life that the things depicted in it do happen to people and its not pure fetishization to have it portrayed in media and talk about it. I do agree that some people reading this should maybe wait a few years instead of going to the comments and being like 'this is so yucky' (babes that's the point...) like I saw some people that didn't understand the door symbolism which like... I'm sorry but it's really not that hard. If you can't understand basic symbolism like that then maybe pay attention to your reading class a bit more.
Here in the US, talking about things like communism and capitalism and greed has been taboo since the Red Scare of the 60s. Less now, but it's still there... I hate this damn country LMAO like all nuance is lost in every conversation I hear.
Also, on the topic of Lolita-- happy sugar life was similar in a way. This high schooler CREEP was grooming a grade schooler who almost got away so many times but went to the high schooler in the end because she was all she had left. Very fucked up, highly recommend if you want a watch that will make you angry. I saw some comments that were like 'awww the ending is so sweet+' or 'omg now they'll have a happy life together' like DID YALL NOT WATCH THE DAMN SHOW??? media literacy is dead and we are all in hell.
girl don't even get me started on the door symbolism. personally the way that was portrayed is so haunting and really my fav sequence from this manhwa. my stomach just dropped and I felt like shit. i hate the scene but absolutely phenomenonal depreciation from the author. they knew exactly what they were doing w that scene.
I mean... The book ends with the message of "all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others", where the pig dictator sacrifices the well-being of the animals on the farm to collude with greedy humans--which is pretty morally questionable to me. It doesn't feed readers with a happy ending (or what I would deem as happy if I applied my beliefs to the story) but ultimately like you said it's dystopian fiction and I can mentally step away when I'm with the book. Thought AF might not be the best example bc a lot of what's happening in the book is unfortunately similar to what's happening in the US right now
Media literacy has been struggling since its infancy imo. You just know the ancient Greeks were fighting for their lives discussing the symbolism and themes of the Odyssey against those who took it too literally.
The doors… I counted them when I read that chapter and assumed it correlated to the number of videos/times assaulted.
Honestly, I’m just so fed up with comments on this site. I love seeing people’s opinions but there have been too many times where the domain holders should have just gone back to locking the comment section. If folks can’t discuss shit like adults then they shouldn’t be reading adult content or passing judgement on those that do when real evil exists in the world. Bring that energy to congress to release the Epstein files and end the forever wars in the Middle East instead of calling innocent readers scum of the earth and telling them to “kys” over a comic. Idc if it is actual fetishization. There’s more pressing shit going on irl than what people are reading online.
i totally get you. in a way I really hate anime and manga becoming mainstream cause it's allowed some brsinfucked people to get access to the communities. not tryna sound old I'm not that old but I've been on this site for like a decade and the comments used to be FILLED w intellectual exchanges. not saying we never thirsted, yeah we did
but like there was still that sense of "oh there's a human being behind this screen/comment" it's just sad rnan.
It's due to socmed platforms like TikTok/X that promote censorship culture, rage bait for increased engagement, and echo chambers that don't leave much room for critical thinking or differing opinions.
Yeah, that’s why I asked of that person was from the US, as I often see it as banned from US schools TwT AF isn’t morally grey nor questionable at all, it’s like extremely obvious that it’s made to denounce, it doesn’t present its subject in a good light at all. The book is entirely against dictatorship and shows how it’s born. Like, banning it is either extremely poor media literacy, or actively acting for dictatorship. And when we see the state of politics… Heh……
I hadn’t heard of Happy Sugar Life! Is it a novel too?
That’s not morally questionable… the book’s message isn’t that some people should be more equals, it’s written like that to denounce the hypocrisy of how dictatorship works. By definition, equality is equal to everyone, else it isn’t equality. The book shows how those kind of politics will play with words to turn things their way. At first they might act for the good of everyone (the revolution lead by the pigs), but once they find their own interest they will turn it for themselves.
The pigs have become the bad guys, they are depicted as the bad guys. They have become just like the people they fought the against (the humans), so much so that we can’t distinguish them at the end. That’s not questionable morality, as the text isn’t telling you that some of this is good. The text depicts what is bad so we can understand how it works and see it when it happens in real life.
Just to add, questionable morality is something that mixes good and bad. Like doing something bad for the supposed “greater good” (killing someone to save 10 others). It’s difficult to strictly call it good or bad, and so makes people debate. Or doing something nor completely bad but still not good.
What AF pigs do is morally wrong, there’s no question about it, and the situation is depicted as bad.
Just want to add, I hope I don’t seem too cold or harsh, this isn’t my language, I’m just trying to explain the best I can >.<
Look I know what the Wells intended to say with the book—I'm speaking more to the actual plot itself and how it's supposed to affect us as readers. Maybe questionable wasn't the right word for this particular book, but my point is that even when presented with stories that go against our values or beliefs we should still analyze the work as a whole and understand why the story is written. In the context of BL some people are quick demonize a work once they see 'red/black flags' and will act morally right for doing so, and that ends up reflected in lower ratings for the work even though the overarching plot is really strong and interesting.
sorry **Orwell not Wells
It was a Manga turned anime that aired sometime in 2019-2020 I think (?) And the entire time I was rooting for the grade school girl to get out of the house girls clutches. Alas... it was good at making me uncomfortable though I'll give it that
Babes ur doing amazinggg don't worry
Also on the topic of af... have you seen the trailer for the af movie...
Back in high school we were given book reports we had to do projects on that required us to choose a book from a predetermined list. I chose The Kite Runner knowing absolutely nothing about it going in. It was my first encounter with the concept of rape as a form of control and domination over another. I struggled with the book because this concept was as foreign to me as the setting. The protagonist was also a morally grey and at times black character, which was easy for me to wrap my head around, but was not for the few peers of mine that also chose to read this particular book.
I bring this book report up, half my life later, because the comments on this story as well as many others seem to completely miss the point and demonize all readers who like to grapple with complex topics such as rape, morally bereft and ambiguous protagonist and characters, trauma, ect. ect.
I’m not asking you to like this story or any other, but maybe don’t blame every reader of being a depraved rape apologist or write the story off for covering themes you don’t quite understand yet. Many of these comics have content warnings and age restrictions for a reason. Use those warnings and restrictions to your advantage as a reader.
If you cannot talk about stories that cover themes like this like an adult discussing classic lit then you either need to read more novels instead of comics or read something more age appropriate for where you are at developmentally.