I throughly agree with it .sumed up perfectly .thats how i saw the whole situation too. And just to say we are not defending rape nor do we condone it .its just our perspective towards the whole situation .rape is horrible and nobdoy feel good with rape and fell in love with the rapist .it was a uke in denial which he alreay cleared in last page of chapter 4 .i never said okay to hikaru in kokoro o korosu that it is not rape beause it was a horrible one . Well that was just an example .
You are very strong by the way,i applaud here .you stick to your word and didn't loose you composure kudos to you.
I lost my composure at like 2 people, but only after they started calling me names... They literally just dropped any pretenses of civil discussion... (￣∇￣")
(≧∀≦) oh well you be rude you get rude ,you be nice you get nice right....still you hold you conversation nicely especially when most of the people were against you. it is so scary i deleted my account once because of that lolol .this is my second and the moment someone's starts to get angry i feel like now we are not gonna have a valid arguement so i ignore and move on .i envy you.you stick to your statement and you are good in english .i am horrible at it Σ( ￣□￣||) and you are nice to me so i am happy lol
I try DESPERATELY to maintain a civil discussion. I really do. I'm open to being swayed too. Amy one of those people could've swayed me had they had dialogue/evidence backing what they were saying, the issue was that they were all just telling me their interpretations. I don't get swayed by how you think something looks, i get swayed by you backing up why you think something looks like that. Some of them gave some dialogue like 1. "i don't understand Kureshima, he scares me", i explained that this is out of context, if you read the scene in it's entirety you can see that he isn't saying he's scared of Kureshima himself, he's scared because Kureshima sees through him. He says this on ch 3, pg 14-15. 2. "Who am i fooling? My ass is bleeding and sore. He didn't stop no matter how much it hurt", i went into this one in my comment above.
-accidentally clicked post...- And 3. "he screams no", i replied to this saying that that is actually wrong. The "nooo!" on ch 23, pg 29 is actually an SFX, a sound effect that the translator put in there themselves. The SFXs are at the mercy of the translators' interpretations, if they thought ch 3 was rape and decided to put a rapey SFX there to match their interpretation, it's going to effect how the readers view the scene as well. What's funny is that the SFX text in there doesn't even translate to "nooo!", i think i was onto something and the translator DID just put whatever they wanted there.
You can be in love or sexually attracted to seomone, still you have all rights to refuse to have sex. Its not about delusions anymore
No is no, and everyone should decide what they want to do with their body
though the "rape" was just part of the story. I enjoyed reading this manga haha
I can under stand why you are thinking this way I guess :)
That's still pretty messed up lol
I understand fully what you are trying to say . I think they think diffrently i guess .they might have their own perception and way of seeing things diffrent than us .the way we interpret words they interpret diffrently. What upset me the most when people blame us for condoning or defending rape .no way in hell i am defending rape i am defending what i see . There is a term dubious consent there for a reason like these .i don't see why the defination of real life rape is applied to yaoi dub con when it is unrealistic to the core .
But he only said no to the masturbation, before agreeing to do it. He never said no to the sex.
I do agree with you of course, him threatening to leave if he doesn't masturbate is shitty. I just think the situation you're describing and the pne in this manga aren't the same. You said "no means no", but he never said no. Except to the masturbation, before he agreed to do it.
http://www.mangago.me/read-manga/kajou_mousou_shounen/uu/m_chapter-3/pg-29/
I'm losing faith in humanity here
Lol, i know what you mean, but bear with me. That's an SFX, it isn't dialogue, Oono doesn't say it. The SFX is a sound effect that the translators put there at their whim, the text in that SFX bubble doesn't translate to "nooo!" either. I think what happened here is that the translator thought it was rape and put a rapey SFX there to match what they thought was going on. Translators are just normal people like you and me, subject to looking at the same images we do. This translator must've saw ch 3 and thought it was rape so they put "nooo" there and now the scene looks worse than it is. (￣∇￣") I've literally seen people here on mangago pick up projects to translate, even people putting direct copy/pastes to the text bubbles from google translate. Literally anyone who knows how to translate can do this.
The sfx is literally iaa
いや iya means no (less polite)
From wikipedia
Japanese
Stop denyin it's rape lol it is but the quality of the manga isn't affected by it. idk what you're trying to prove but its all bullshit
Maybe need more evidence??????
-in addition to this^- if you look at Oono's mouth on that page he doesn't even look like he's screaming. The translator put an incorrect translation into that SFX bubble, so it doesn't even say "no", and his mouth doesn't even look like he's screaming. See what i mean? Kureshima got his consent to watch him masturbate and then got him horny and progressed to sex. Pretty standard. Oono didn't say ANYTHING during the sex. That's why i don't think this situation and the one you described are quite the same.
That character you just showed isn't even the same as the one in the bubble. I have them pulled up side by side.
Its in katakana Ive been learnin japanese for 3 years there are two different alphabet
Both イア and いや are read the same way
Go educate yourself first
Lol you guys are ridiculous now I know how to read japanese why would I lie to you anyway
Okay, but the two characters you just showed don't match what is in that test box. Anyways, it's whatever. I only started talking to you because you came across respectful, but you've been REALLY rude for some reason. It's fine if you don't agree, i'm just saying that you're wrong about that saying "iya", i have page 29 pulled up and i'm looking at it with the two characters you just showed for "iya" and they don't match?
Take a look again please. I'm not lying :
イア
And it means no
Im annoyed pretty easily
That's too bad. Sorry I though that we could just talk about it but you're saying nonsense like "he didn't say no to the sex" and denying the fact that the characters match
Its too much to bare and even a little bit painful that people can be blinded so much.
***THIS COMMENT ISN'T AT ANY ONE PARTICULAR PERSON, I"M JUST TRYING TO EXPLAIN SOMETHING I HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT YET, THIS IS SEPARATE FROM ANY OTHER TOPICS*** Both Oono and Kureshima know Oono is already in love with Kureshima before the sex in ch 3. They talk about it. Look at ch 3, pg 21, on it you see Oono having issues imaging his delusions, he says it's because Kureshima is there, but he's lying to himself (Kureshima says this in a second). Kureshima starts dirty talking and Oono starts to get horny (Kureshima starts dirty talking and he's immediately able to see his delusions? Coincidence?), he says "h-hold up! something is wrong here. -he starts shivering because he's horny- this is bad. I'm starting to feel the same as back then". After he gets horny he tries to look down, this is another hint about the denial Kureshima is about to call Oono on, he's trying to look away because Kureshima is getting him horny and he doesn't want to admit it. Kureshima tells him to "keep your head up! Don't look down!" and says "so now, who is licking you?". There is a brief moment here where Oono tries to lie to himself and say Sasaki, even though he had just acknowledged he can't imagine her before he realizes he's imagining Kureshima doing all the stuff Kureshima was saying and he instantly tries to say it's not true both to himself in his head and out loud to Kureshima. Kureshima then says "that's what you were imagining the other day at the park, didn't you?" and "even after that you weren't on your own, I helped you with your delusions". Kureshima is saying here that Oono is lying to himself, that Oono has been interested in him since the park scene where he helped Oono come by putting his foot on Oono's dick and that Oono was imagining him in that park scene as well as in the other delusions after. Oono knows it's true so he can't deny any of this and looks how he does in ch 3 because he wants to deny it, but he can't. THAT'S why he has tears and is blushing, he's being forced to realize he's been imagining another dude sexually. If you look back in ch 3, you can see a hint that Oono is already aware of Kureshima sexually when he goes to take off his clothes and then gets flustered and says he shouldn't in front of Kureshima. "bros" change clothes in front of each other all the time. This is when Kureshima says "reality is better than delusions" and enters Oono. He's saying reality is better than being fucked by him in his delusions. People misunderstand this scene. He's not raping Oono, he's forcing him to accept reality and quit the denial. This is why Kureshima gets pissed midway through ch 4 when Oono yells at him asking why he had sex with him, he thought he got through to Oono and that he'd be more honest from then on. That's why Kureshima comes in talking to Oono "normally" and "like nothing happened", he talks to Oono normally because he didn't do anything wrong, he knows their feelings are mutual and the purpose of the sex was to get Oono to admit it. Oono never said no to the sex either. He said no to masturbating, but that was before he agreed to do it. Look at the very small flashback at the beginning of chapter 4 where it shows Kureshima fucking Oono, he's smiling. Kureshima expected to go to school tomorrow and things to progress now that Oono is facing reality. Kureshima gets angry because he sees Oono is just going on pretending he doesn't know what happened when Oono asks why Kureshima fucked him. Kureshima says "you know why!". Because he does. Oono knows how he feels about Kureshima, but he's "pretending not to notice" like he says at the end of ch 4. He also knows that Kureshima was right about everything he said and that Kureshima had sex with him so that he'd have to acknowledge that he'd been imagining Kureshima all along and that he is in love already. And it worked, Oono DID get past his denial, albeit a little after the sex at the end of ch 4. At first, at the beginning of ch 4, he was still lying to himself. He says "My ass is bleeding and sore. He didn't stop no matter how much it hurt". This is only a half-truth. At the end of chapter 4 he says that he "intended to blame Kureshima", but that the truth is that he always "yearned to be touched again" and that "reality was much better than delusion". Oono is saying that the dialogue at the beginning of chapter 4 was him "blaming Kureshima" and that the sex was actually very pleasurable (much better than delusion) and that he actually wanted Kureshima to touch him deep down during the sex scene in ch 3. I already covered this, but i'll say it again since it's midway through ch 4. Oono is also lying to himself when he acts like he doesn't know why Kureshima had sex with him. There is a scene midway through ch 4 where Oono yells at Kureshima "why did you do it" and Kureshima says "you know why". After this scene is when Kureshima gets a girlfriend and Oono gets jealous and EVERYTHING clicks into place for him. End of denial.