"It feels like holding a women" Tbh that super unnecessary comment changed the way I view ...

when was this, can i ask?

also i the guy was straight before, he would tend to have these homophobic thoughts regardless. Especially when living and being brought up in such a heternormative environment. I don't think its the authors fault but the characters.

characters arent flawless and they shouldn't be. Their thought process shouldn't be.It should reflect society and it does. People have these thoughts in real life.

But the main aspect we should all take from this is that does he evolve from such a narrow minded thinking in his sequels ? or is it stagnant

if its is, then it is the authors fault.

Total bull. I don't think, even in Japan's homophobic society, that a Japanese man says to his male partner while they're having sex that their partner "feels like a woman". Just because you said he's "straight before" doesn't mean crap. He's bi (or maybe pan) and no gay/bi/pan guy says that to another. This crap with people believing the old "I'm gay only for you" trope is beyond stupid. It doesn't work like that and it's a total disservice and erasure of identity to actual LGBT people.

The mangaka wrote it, so it IS her fault - after all 2D characters aren't able to think for themselves because they're not real.

I took it to mean that's he's realizing there isn't any difference - it feels just as good or whatever. As a guy who was straight until he's 25 (and seemed to have had plenty of female partners), it only makes sense that in his head there would be expectations of it feeling different and maybe not as "good."

"Even in Japan's homophobic society..." seriously? Why do people who live in far more homophobic countries always want to talk about Japan like it's 1950s America?

I like this way of seeing. I, at first until now, was really turned off when i read the line but seeing it like this also make sense and agreeable point. Thank you!

Because some of us are from big city USA, identify as LGBT, majored in East Asian Studies in college, and then spent time teaching in Japan for 2+ years (Tokyo & Kyoto).

Although, to be fair, parts of America are still 1950's America.

''After all after all 2D characters aren't able to think for themselves because they're not real.'' ???


are you for real? Are you like 11 or something? what even is that logic?

A character is supposed to have thoughts, emotions, feelings. They are supposed to have DIFFERENT beliefs and views. THATS WHAT MAKES A CHARACTER.


Just because a author creates a character does not mean thats her/his exact thoughts. My god what ignorance. If a character makes a racist, homophobic, sexist remark in a book, THATS NOT WHAT THE AUTHOR FEELS IN REAL LIFE. It does not REFLECT HER OR HIS VIEW IN ANY WAY. No godamn it. Get off that pedestal.

An author, have to juggle fifty to a hundred different characterisations. Perhaps a single quality in each character however good or bad, might be their own, but there is a large contingent who would never be like them.

They are who they are, and all hell usually breaks loose if I try to mould them into something they are not. Thats what it means to create a book with characters. No one is fucking gary sue and mary sue here.

When I see people like you, I feel uncomfortable as if anything that the author writes, you are going to take it in like a sponge. If there is a fight scene in an anime, are you going to say it reflects the violent thoughts of animators and how they fetishize such obvious violence?

Try reading Boston Verse Series by Cordelia Kingsbridge (She is an absolutely divine author). http://archiveofourown.org/series/193475

Here she makes one of her character use the word 'pussy' to refer to the male gentiale because the bottom loves it. He loves the kink. It turns him on. He consented to it and asked the top to use it personally in latter chapters.

SOMETIMES ITS A FUCKING KINK. SOMETIME IS NOT. other people hate it when you do that, some people love it. So what? different though process, different characters. let them go and do their own thing.






Sweetheart, save me the godamn lecture about gay for you troop because it is possible. You are so caught up on labels. NO let it go. As a queer person, not everything has to be labelled. No one has to fit in a god damn box with the rules you have for us. You don't get to make the rules for us! And say shit about whats right and whats wrong.

You get to say what exist and what does not, you don't get to choose what spectrum a person might lie up on, you don't get to say what what gay/bi/pan people say to another person. Can you even predict what another person will think or say to another person? Do you know their experiences? Do you know what they went through to say that shit to another person? Well godamn you just generalized the whole queer people in one box. As if we are all godamn saints. NO WE ARE PEOPLE that have character development too. We aren't perfect, but we learn and grow through experiences .

You know after hearing your reply, I thought you would come up with something intelligible. But you just generalized the whole population of queer people, of Japanese men (I wasn't even refering to japanese men. I was referring to the character Arimura living a hertnormative life with his friends, his family and hence being influenced to say such things in such situation.) and hence I'm not going to bother replying anymore.

Okay, by why even say it out loud? Why take the chance of demeaning your partner like that?
I guess if it plays into the female fantasy for you guys then it's whatever.

I dont think female fantasy or what is

All of these anonymous "yaoi is problematic" accounts claim extensive knowledge about Japan, despite always discussing it from a very narrow Western cultural perspective. It's hilariously ethnocentric, and they don't even realize it.

Oh, perhaps that is a poor translation of what was actually said? Why don't you read the raws and tell us exactly what he said in case there is confusion.

sorry, posted accidentally the other one...

i dont think female fantasy or what plays a role in this argument... It's just like what serralinda said, guy has been straight since way before and its not suprising if he were to make a comment like that but that just shows how he is still really new and can be insensitive with gay relationship and throw offending comment like this. it happens that as much as we try to accept something foreign to us before there are still those subconscious habit/ prior idea embedded in a person that comes out unconsciously. like the sayin, old habit dies hard, and it rings true even with social construct embedded to a person and affects psychologically. that's my take on your question why say it out loud.
i also hope you dont make the same mistake unconsciously (not the same situation per se), and well yeah, maybe you dont since you always seem to be totally fully aware of your actions and words and thats great :D less mistake to happen like this one :)

Ah yes! i love your point. I also agree that characters shouldn't be flawless and that we should see how he will evolve from such thinking. I also think that comment (woman thing) just shows how new he is and can be insensitive towards gay relationship. how he was raised is deeply rooted in his subconscious self that makes him say or do things unconsciously, and this plays a great deal to his characterization and how it will turn is something to look forward if there were to be a sequel :D

preach!

anyway @it's still problematic yaoi seems to have more narrow-mind than the character in the story. If you can not understand and get it into your brain how characterization works and all their sound argument then that's just how it is. I wish you best :)

Thank you. You said it so much better.


This is what I meant. it is very hard for me to express my thoughts into this. So I'm glad someone said it better.

P.S if you taught in Japan for 2 years, surely you must have been well exposed with cultural diversity being surrounded with not just only japanese but other fellow international teachers and friends so you shouldve been more open to different perspective and such... but seeing your points only made it really look like that you have such narrow point of perspective. As much as this is a bl story, we shouldnt imprison ourselves with only one pov. i mean, i bet we all took sociology and other related courses in uni so...

Im glad i could be of help with this matter. And thank you also and the other OP for putting your comments! it really helped me as well to see it differently :D

Haven't you noticed that he tends to blurt stuff out? He's not real skilled at filtering his thoughts.

Damn Fluffy that is a very good post, very happy to see someone in the comment-section who is older than the average

I read the raws, senpai did not say it felt like holding a woman, he actually said “with a body like this, how could you have ever held a woman.” Totally an uke.