Rapey. Really rapey.

Hey, guru. Thanks for your comment earlier. Curious about this one. Not familiar with YouTube comment sections.

Again Bravo. You are amazing. This as well as you other comments astound me (this goes to the others as well.) Maybe this has already been said, but let me just add... If these stories were so offensive they would not be as popular as they are and sales and posts would slowly diminish. That does not seem to be the case, it actually seems like there are more mangas with this trope. Again let me reiterate, If you don't like the story, don't read it. If you didn't know what kind of story it was, STOP reading it. It doesn't take rocket surgery to figure that out. Even my 4 yr old and 9 yr old sons know (regarding t.v) "hey I don't like this show. I'm gonna stop watching it" Or when My husband and I watch a scary movie, they play somewhere else or do something else.. tbc

Ah, well, on YouTube there are these things in comment sections called "flame wars" where the original commenter posts something which rouses other users and thus starts a huge argument (and yes, there are trolls there). It's the same with Facebook.

To be honest, it's not a bad thing that "violence and perversion in Manga" is being discussed here... it's just that this is the first time on this site that so many fangirls (who are usually peaceful, hehe) are riled up. Then again, there's a huge problem with ghost members and "puppet accounts" who sometimes troll and whatnot; this is actually the third argument chain I've seen (though none this big).

Again agreeing with you and reiterating these arguments are not saying everybody has to like this trope and not saying that person can't have an opinion and comment on it. Just don't belittle the people who don't agree with those opinions and comments. Hmmmm... I think that is all. (●'◡'●)ﾉ

Right. What kind of person keeps kicking themselves in the arse and complaining, "Ow, that hurts!"? They aren't going to find anything but misery on this site. That, and—as anon put it—"raging butthurt."

Okay, got it. I mostly like Classical music, so that probably gets rid of most of the flame war trolls on youtube right there (although some of them get a mite sniffy over the subject of vibrato. So there's that ...)

I like seeing fangirls say their piece. At some point or another, this sort of discussion may wind up in a legal or political challenge somewhere, and the more people understand the dynamics which underscore these subjects—what constitutes art, for example, and where does perversion cross the line—the more they can advocate for liberty and freedom of expression in a larger context. They learn that it doesn't hurt to speak up, but it hurts plenty when someone tries to suppress speech.

Thank you for what you said here for me. It's been 12 yrs now and thinking about what happened back then still shakes me up. But, I can read some stories like this and some stories I can't. And I do have to agree with what you said in an earlier comment that it can be therapeutic. For years when I saw a movie and read a book with a rape scene I cried. The more I talked about it, with friends, with my husband, sometimes (rarely) with someone I just met the easier it was for me to come to terms with it and I have been able to read these kinds of stories.

Amen to that.ヾ(☆▽☆)

I also like serious discussions aside from the fangirling, especially for darker themed and havier plotted manga (like "Mob for Jack" or "Not Equal"). The problem is that when it comes to discussions, it's less about critical analysis and understanding but more of like what is constituted as "right" and "wrong" by real world standards. That totally disregards the fact that this is literature and literature does serve as an escapist medium, a place where "right" and "wrong" can be duly expressed in a different way or completely violated. When getting into discussions with people who are too shallow to this concept, it feels like a pissing contest between what they believe and what you believe and the facts and "titles" to validate their opinions. They're practically force feeding one another their perspectives.

That's what this thread feels like, honestly (though many points you made were pretty legit).

Wow. I have some typos...

Bwahahahaha!!!I just have to say this also. When I see a negative comment it just makes me curious and then I end up reading the manga or putting it in my list to read. Just to see if it was actually that bad so take that all you negative nellies out there! Bwahahahaha!!! Suckas! (≧∀≦)

LOL, I agree about literature being a venue where anything can be portrayed, even the worst depravities, and frequently is. (Not Equal is one of my favourite manga, Mob for Jack is one I had to drop because it hurt too much and I couldn't detach enough emotionally to get through it.) I LOL because, years ... no, make that decades ago, when I took a few Lit courses in this and that, I would've never dreamed I'd ever apply critical reading standards to porn, or get into flame wars on freedom of expression over porn. But that's where the most basic lines are drawn, isn't it? Where expression and creativity converge over our very self-natures, a place we cannot control through effort of will and discipline because it is the essence of who we are, our sexual fantasies, which don't necessarily mean the same things in our imaginations as they do in real life.

But manga isn't merely literature. It is also art. Sometimes it's like admiring Bernini. Other times ... more often, to me, Egon Schiele, a big, fat, wet, slobbery raspberry blown at "normal" whatever that is. But nobody (since Hitler) says that these artists have no legitimacy. Nobody EVER said it about Bernini, but Egon Schiele became an artistic anti-hero icon because an oppressive government tried to wipe him out. His work resonated with too many people, but the ones who disliked what it said, perhaps felt it too keenly as personal criticism, did try to destroy it. This isn't belief, but a matter of historical record.

Right now, people are trying to agitate against porny manga and shame the Japanese government into censoring it. It hasn't worked, but they keep trying. In those cases, it's important to know how to express what one feels and thinks, to develop that skill and use it to advocate and defend. I think that's why the constant reiteration of certain points sometimes feels like forcefeeding, but it's people bouncing those ideas off each other, reinforcing whether they stand up, and sparking new ones.

Agree!

No problem. The reason I wrote all that is because many other people who went through such experiences told me how they felt. There was a time when I did not believe that a survivor might actually read and enjoy rape-trope romance or yaoi fic, especially the rape=romance schtick. It was unfathomable to me. How could someone who had been so violated and hurt, who must be so angry about their experience and PTSD-ready to lash out at anyone who triggered similar feelings, appreciate and enjoy stories that reignited trauma in their lives? It made no sense.

Boy, was I schooled!

... And liberated. Totally grateful to the people who set me straight on that matter, because actual experience overrides any belief or idea, any made up construct, about experience. Once I got off that high horse, I found that I had the permission to like any manga that resonated with me, just because. I never knew how inhibited I had been before.

The only other time I was PWNed like that was over the issue of genetic predisposition toward homosexuality. I've always supported gay rights, but I never appreciated how much it mattered to me than when I was going on about how gay people can't help being gay because of their physiology and a lesbian told me to shut up. She had the same right to her sexual expression as any other consenting adult, not because of some inevitable genetic bias, but simply because. She had the right to love whomever she wanted. Of course she was right ... and what a gift, to really get that the heart rules itself.

I'm not saying that every person who has been through the same experience as you will find manga therapeutic and a form of catharsis. I don't expect that. I expect them to respect those that do.

ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~

I get that you think I flounced when I realized it was pointless to continue when the conversation wasn't going anywhere except, "But we like it so neener." I chose to disconnect because my message was falling into a deep, dark hole.

However, I fully challenge your mischaracterization that I am some kind of serial troll, just to try to make your point and discredit me."She always flounces"? Where the hell does that come from? Show me that comment history, if you please.

Let it go, let it go
It's not serious anymore
Let it go, let it go
Just turn you back and slam the door
No one cares about this thread
Get on with your life
The manga meant no real harm anyway

Thank you for sharing.

Lol.

So damn right. Most people here are mentally ill...