Apart from that the actual abject lesson was that male ejaculation is shameful and dirty, IAWTC. Shirotani doesn't display insecurity or hostility around women as a result of 'defeat by pussy'. He has it rewired that his natural automatic physical responses are unclean.
I think you are right. Maybe he girl intended for him to see he couldn't compete with pussy, but he was too focused on the weird thing happening with his body, and then the fact that it was "disgusting". Pussy was not that much of a factor for him.
Well, it's a very pat take on the situation. We are analyzing this as if this man's reactions to his past have a rational correlation, and mental illness isn't rational, no matter how much Freud tried to smooth it out and make it seem so.
Well, I think Freud had it *all* wrong--personally I believe mental disorders and conditions are biological and behavioral, but this is fiction.
:)
It wouldn't be much of a story if they wrote him a prescription and had him work at shaping a specific set of behaviors, now would it?
It could be. Or it could be another attempt to shoe-horn mental illness into a rational framework. People are addicted to things that make sense. Maybe there are limits to those because our perception itself is limited.
You just missed a huge point in your Freudian analogy, first Shirotani did not had a mother to get attached to and in that case his attachment went to the person who took care of him, his father. Second given the case that situation of attachment does not make a child gay, so Shirotani was a normal, healthy boy that did not lust after his father. Third what Shirotani feared the most was to loose the person his world revolved around (his father) to a girl (so he saw the girl as competition for his father affection).
He is a normal, healthy gay child. Freud says *everyone* is sexually attracted to at least one parent before learning to suppress that drive. In his theory, straight children are sexually attracted the opposite-sex parent, so it would follow gay children would be sexually attracted to the same-sex parent and bi kids would be attracted to both. It's Freud's theory, not mine. There is nothing unhealthy about being gay or bi, so the only problem is the complex he develops after suppressing this incident.
Competing with another child for a parent's attention is more like sibling rivalry, but I don't see that as an issue here. It's more a suppression of a sexual response he doesn't understand coupled with the idea that his sexuality is "disgusting".
BTW, nothing makes anyone gay. We are born with the proclivity to be gay, straight, bi, pan, ace or whatever. It's a combination of hormones and DNA. We are what we are--Yaoi logic notwitstanding.
I believe there is an explanation for everything, but there is a lot science does not understand yet. There was a time disease was considered to be the work of demons, but now we have learned a lot more about germs and viruses. We are just starting to understand neurotransmitters and how biology interacts with environmental factors. In time, we will learn how to better understand and treat such conditions. The reason it seems illogical now is because we do not yet have all the information we need in order to make sense of it.
That being said, I think Freud was wrong, but influential--and this is a story.
I don't believe in explanations for everything, or at least in the sort of omniscience that gives us *accurate* explanations for everything, as much as I approve of science. If you must know, it's Euripede's fault for writing the most howling apologism for Helen of Troy's faithlessness ever, but whether science or behaviourism ever finds solutions or cures for mental illness (and I hope they do, since it causes so much suffering), we need to find ways to live with the mentally ill. For until those cures are found, they will continue to operate outside the realm of sense.
"in yaoi sex cures everything"
Hahaha! AIN'T THAT THE TRUTH. ╮(￣▽￣)╭
I agree with EVERYTHING you've said in this entire thread. I also believe Shirotani was gay (even at 11- the age of a 5th grader). Our sexual orientation is determined before birth (DNA). It can be "recognized" by the person as early as 6 years old. They will know they are "different" from others of their gender, but won't know why, or what it is that makes them different. I don't think the incident with the girl having sex with his Dad would cause misogyny, but I do think it would give him an inferiority complex around women.
This entire segment of the plot follows Freudian theory to the letter. I'm sure it was written based on his theories. We've come a long way since Freud's time and have learned that, sometimes "a cigar is just a cigar".
Thanks. Not everyone enjoys analyzing the story so much, but I am kind of weird that way. :) I like that the story raises so many issues. It's kind of deep for a yaoi--even if it does follow yoai logic about many things.
I loved psych and anatomy in college. So, I'm often on here explaining either the mechanics of sex of the psychology of characters. LOL I agree, this manga is one of the best in the "psychological" category. Yaoi logic must always prevail in yaoi! LOL
Based on a AP Psychology level of knowledge (that is to say, a little bit), I would say that Ten Count takes a rather Freudian approach to mental disorders (with a Yaoi twist). Of course, this is not how most modern professionals would approach it, but it makes for good drama. In classic Freudian theory, little boys all fall in love with their mothers because humans are all driven by sex and death. (Others may have said we have a drive for life, but Freud is a guy, and an old Austrian one at that, so he thinks we all want to die, deep down--but we want to have a lot of sex first). Now, the little boy lusts for mom, but is scared of Dad. Since the child can't compete with the father physically, he pushed the lust and anxiety into his subconscious, where it stews and causes all sorts of problems down the road, especial if the child becomes fixated on this stage and has a complex.
So in the Yaoi version, a gay child has "lust" (or drives) directed at his father, though he is not old enough to understand it. The girl gives him an object lesson about how he can never compete with the pussy, and calls him disgusting. This causes much anxiety, and the child pushes the cause of feelings in to his subconscious, keeping the idea that he is disgusting and can infect others with his filth. In a universe where this is the cause of neurological disorders, the cure would be to drag the original memories out of the subconscious and have the adult deal with all the crap. The list of ten things has to do this, or it won't have much effect (because we are not in a behavioral world where desensitization works). The attraction to a man who is also attracted to him is the perfect springboard for such a cure. That and in Yaoi sex cures everything.