baka-tan's Topics (31)

I agree, and given that in chap. 17 Sangwoo gets so obviously jealous over Bum and that fat dude, he's probably "punishing" him for that too.

That's exactly what's in my mind. Well-said. cc: @baka-tan & u anonymous out there.

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I think sangwoo also jealous when bum accidently sitting on his laps friend.
His expression really change on there.
So i think sangwoo also want to punish him

Wooooow, ok, good point! I never really thought it in that way~

Well Sangwoo has been emotionally fucking with Bum since the begining, the physical abuse was just more prominent. Bum typically reponds to upsetting things with sadness. Would be interesting to see him angry.

I don't know a lot about BPD but if only one of them has it, Sangwoo does show more of the symptoms. It's likely Sangwoo has something other than a personality disorder though, I'm not a psychologist.

nope

Yes, chapter 1 after a while it's written in grey...And IMO bum hits the nail on the head

I'm no expert, but my impression of BPD is that most people who have it are drama queens (for lack of a better word) who like to be the center of attention and manipulate others. That's not meant to put down anyone with the condition--just an impression of how it affects others. If Sangwoo were not such a total psychopath (Antisocial Personality Disorder), he might be seen as a sort of BPD on steroids.

Bum seems to have a sort of erotomania and maybe a little schizotypal. Now, of course, he's becoming dependent.

It's so hard to diagnose fictional characters :) Mostly, I think they are both f*cked up.

You said that well, I like you.

Thanks. :) I like analyzing these things.

Bum and Sangwoo have personality disorders but Bum has borderline personality disorder while Sangwoo has antisocial personality disorder. Both can come with impulsiveness and poor relationships but the symptoms of each are different for the most part.

Some symptoms of BPD that are seen in Bum:
A pattern of unstable and intense relationships
Fear of abandonment
Feelings of isolation, boredom and emptiness
Paranoia during high stress situations
Self-harm
Unstable career plans, goals and aspirations
Strong feelings of anxiety, worry and depression
Unstable or fragile self-image

Symptoms of ASPD seen in Sangwoo:
Disregard the safety of self and others
Lack of empathy for others and lack of remorse about harming others
Using charm or wit to manipulate others for personal gain or personal pleasure
Poor or abusive relationships
Often angry or arrogant

I agree with you about Sangwoo. I see where you are coming from on Bum, and it does use the words BPD in the text, but I am not sure I see all of those in Bum in the story. I just don't see things such as fear of abandonment, self-harm, or intense relationships before Sangwoo.

It's the lack of personal relationships that makes me see the character as more schizotypal, that is, according to the DSM V, "A pervasive pattern of social and interpersonal deficits marked by acute discomfort with, and reduced capacity for, close relationships as well as by cognitive or perceptual distortions and eccentricities of behavior, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts." But it is just a story.

And clearly, they both have problems.

Keep in mind we aren't shown a whole lot of Bum's life prior to Sangwoo but symptoms can be derived as:

Self-harm: the scars on his wrist

Intense relationships: the obsessive stalking from one person to the next due to "love"

Fear of abandonment: this is more seen during his time with Sangwoo since I think Bum doesn't really have much human relationships to begin with...but one could argue the obsessive stalking to the point where not knowing (I.e. Sang woo with the other girl) as a sign of feeling like being "abandoned"

I've known people with BDP and not all of them are drama queens. Some people veer more on the depressive state while others more on the maniac. I think it takes into account a whole lot of stuff.

Some of the symptoms weren’t as apparent before and could have been amplified after being captured. It shows that Bum had cut his wrists in the past which would be considered self-harm. Bum has a history of stalking, while one-sided, demonstrates an intense and unstable relationships. I saw the fear of abandonment as something implied and coupled with the intense feeling of loneliness but I guess he doesn’t directly show it.

There is a similarly vague description of BPS in the DMS-IV, “A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts”. Bum meets more of the criteria to be diagnosed with BPS than STPD as outlined in DMS-5. I don't think Bum demonstrates perceptual distortions and eccentricities of behavior. It’s a bit much to copy and paste but I found the detailed criteria for the personality disorders from DMS-5 here if you're interested in looking http://www.psi.uba.ar/academica/carrerasdegrado/psicologia/sitios_catedras/practicas_profesionales/820_clinica_tr_personalidad_psicosis/material/dsm.pdf

Yes, I know it's fiction and it's possible he won't fit any of the disorders perfectly.

Some of the symptoms weren’t as apparent before and could have been amplified after being captured. It shows that Bum had cut his wrists in the past which would be considered self-harm. Bum has a history of stalking, while one-sided, demonstrates an intense and unstable relationships. I saw the fear of abandonment as something implied and coupled with the intense feeling of loneliness but I guess he doesn’t directly show it.

There is a similarly vague description of BPS in the DSM-IV, “A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts”. I don't think Bum demonstrates perceptual distortions and eccentricities of behavior. Bum meets more of the criteria to be diagnosed with BPS than STPD as outlined in DSM-5. It’s a bit much to copy and paste but the detailed criteria for each can be found on the DSM-5 website or through a google search if you’re interested in looking.

Yes, I know it's fiction and it's possible he won't fit any of the disorders perfectly.
Sorry if I posted this multiple times. This site has been screwy today for me.

I am sure it is a matter of interpretation. I appreciate your listing your reasons, and I don't mean to be too picky about anything. I'm just chatting. You can see it any way you like. I still don't quite see it myself.

The DSM of whatever version has a list of criteria for all disorders, and people must meet a certain number for a diagnosis (though one can have multiple diagnoses). I am familiar with the criteria and I have worked with people who have had each diagnoses when I was an undergrad, though I chose a different career path later. I had missed the wrist cutting part, and that is self-harm. However, I don't think previous stalking counts as "intense unstable relationships"--I think its one-sided nature shows a pattern of idealization and fantastical thinking. It's a type of rumination and often involves ideas of reference (where the client thinks everything is a "sign" that links the target of the delusion to them). It's primary characteristic is that it is based on a fantasy, and not actual interactions with the other. In my limited experience, most BPD clients have a way of drawing others into their issues and drama that make those intense and unstable relationships less one-sided. No matter how unstable, a relationship requires two people, or it is simply a delusional pattern of thinking (and often an ironic way of avoiding real relationships). I think Bum's obsessions and belief that he does it for "love" fits into perceptual distortions and eccentric behavior from someone who is not actually social.

I am sure people may disagree even if they have two experts making an actual assessment, so maybe we will just see if differently.

Of course, it is just a story. It's just interesting to discuss.

Thanks for explaining. I think your comment on mania and depression is interesting because personality disorders often coexist with other disorders such as bipolar disorder. The type of mania or depression you are thinking of may be part of a mood disorder (bipolar or major depression or some variation). And if we start using BPD (borderline personality disorder) or BD (bipolar disorder), it is very easy to confuse the terms. I will also apologize for the "drama queen" comment. Though some professionals use that term in private, the actual disorder is more complex, and simplifying it as such may be unfair. But in my limited experience, most people with BPD are able to at least temporarily draw others into their issues, so it works a little differently.

But of course, no one is limited to just one disorder. And it's fully accurate to say both of them have behaviors that cause harm to themselves and others, and interfere with their ability to function in a healthy way.

Naoya from Hidoku Shinaide

oh~ now that you say it~
ok, then the new chapter will be about them then it seem ^^
thanks~

You're welcome.
You can follow http://nijiniji-nikubou-scans.tumblr.com/ they always post updates about Hidoku Shinaide and Elektel Delusion

I know what you mean! The quality is just incredible in comparison. Glad I started buying chapters too.

But i can't buy it bcz my country doesn't exist for some reason

What...You need a country? I didn't need to anything, just chose the English version

Thank you for the info :D
I think I'll buy it on amazon, I'm not a patient person when it's books or comics xD
I couldn't find it with the title Shounen no kyoukai, what do I search for on amazon btw ?

Try b-boy オメガバース、you'll also find the older volumes, with Mangas that were released here as well :)
Ah, and look on the Japanese amazon

Thank you ! :)

You're welcome~

Exactly what I was searching for...I couldn't find them either and I was wondering if I made that up in my mind

I think it was in chapter 7, shortly bevor He tried to run away. He thought about going home, and a memory of a panting man above bum popped up...So I thinking it's possible...;-;
Poor bum, I want to give him some cake and spoil him

http://www.mangago.me/read-manga/killing_stalking/mf/c007/30/

Exactly this! What happened D:

It's implied that his uncle has raped him on multiple occasions.

So I was right Σ(っ°Д °;)っ ヽ(`Д´)ﾉ (︶︿︶)＝凸


... ╥﹏╥ I'm so sad

He was raped by his uncle.

Ooooh, thanks for the link! Damn, grown up Kyo is one fine motherfucker haha