Sara

28 chapters in. More rape. He genuinely from the bottom of the heart doesn’t care about the mc. It’s beyond me what the author thinks because nobody’s going to be kind time and again towards someone who rapes you and shows repeatedly that they don’t care about you. The bottom doesn’t not lack a backbone, his character is simply poorly written. I know I shouldn’t look too much into it AT THIS POINT, but I keep reading hoping it will get better, knowing it won’t. It’s genuinely so trash. Maybe because I was fooled into believing this was wholesome, I seem to have zero tolerance for all the rape that goes on.

It gets better after all this but it is not the worst ml in the manhwa world if anything he does rape him but that is because he can't understand human emotions, he is literally a snake meanwhile there so many ml who literally calls rape a form of love and manipulate mc till the end of the manhwa

Genuine question. Why did you think that your reply was relevant to my comment? If you read my comment fully you would know not to mention literally everything you have just mentioned. It is tiring to go over everything again but goddamn yall are exhausting. “He does rape him but” there’s no but. Find a corner. I don’t give a shit if he is better or worse. A rapist is a rapist. I don’t care if others call rape whatever the fuck they call it. It is irrelevant to my point about this snake being a rapist. Full stop.

???

oh my gosh bro you are one of the realest people on this website. Upvoted because rape in these stories are so disgusting and off putting. The dynamics feel forced because nobody would casually be comfortable being with someone who is v willing to rape them just like that and it’s so fucking gross. I hate when people say “it’s just fiction” because they end up undermining the real effect that rape has on people. It is not your “fetish” or “kink” to enjoy in media, and even if it is, that is so concerning and you need to seek help. Like these people actually get off to non consent and think it’s normal and it’s so disappointing because they’re definitely porn rotted children. God bless you for making this comment because I was looking for something to read and someone recommended this and I thought it would be good. Now I know the truth.

Haha you got so many dislikes… I feel that in my soul… was gonna read this but after reading yer comment I’ll pass :) thaaaaanks

HONESTLY. its so upsetting that people have normalized writing rape and dubious consent as something that is forgivable and even portraying it in some cases as "affectionate". like is it THAT hard to write something where everyone consents?? so odd

I completely agree. I ended up not finishing it, now whenever I see a recommendation online I started wondering if I can believe in them. I read nerd project recently in the same manner. Andrew is a great guy, but he does have his flaws. I wouldn't go as far as saying he's a green forest, both of them are flawed. But if you haven't read it, you can check that out. It's nearly impossible to find a good story that's not straight up porn or rape these days.

It's lazy writing, the author knows people will eat this up regardless because cue two dicks.

Oh. I'm glad I was helpful, but just in case you want to second think this decision, here's what: If you can write the top to be an asshole the least you can do is give him a regret arc where the bottom stonewalls him for being an ass so the top reflects on his actions. It doesn't at all happen here by the way. Despite being repeatedly used, the bottom continues to be kind in many ways. The deal is that mc should bear the top's child in return for him saving his grandpa's life. It should ideally end there but the MC chooses to eat only vegetables, giving away all the meat he has in store to the top despite going to a physically demanding job at construction every single day because this deadbeat snake is a carnivore. He is also too broke to afford more meat for both himself and the top, which is why. He is literate enough to understand complex nuances so it eludes me why he continues to freeload on meat while staying at home all day, when the mc is busting his ass to put food on both their plates. The comment I made came from the rage when the mc had to work tirelessly and comes home exhausted, he doesn't have sex for several days, so cute the rape. At some point I thought he was going to visit the construction site to get a job, you know to lessen the burden. Spoiler alert, he doesn't. He treats the mc like a fleshlight, to put it kindly. I hope I deinfluenced you even more.

You did! Sounds disgusting… why is this so highly rated?! I’m glad I saw yer comment…

This is the anger we need Thxs for bringing attention this cause I was about to waste my time reading a so called "green flag" series

72 defending rape bitches

I don't usually comment all that much but this made me snap because of how horrible this entire storyline is combined with how much people glaze it. I don't know if they're out of touch with reality but this has gotta be fetishisation, it almost borders on misogyny. A full circle. Why I say that because, this is most straight relationships. No matter how tired the wife is, if she's not putting it out, the husbands either coerce her or straight up violate her in her sleep. Or worse. To endorse this type of behavior in a "manhwa" simply because "it's not real" would absolutely lose it if it's a straight manhwa and wouldn't use the same excuse. Forget about it influencing reality, they wouldn't even tolerate it in a straight couple manhwa. I don't even know what to say for the downvote except for that all their brains are porn rotted.

thank you very much, i hate reading weak-willed trash

i'll still be controversial and say, I could read something with dubcon and/or noncon in it as long as it's done "RIGHT". Some stories are actually (semi or fully) realistic and there are consequences for actions but most aren't, MCs that actually have personality and clearly understand what's being done to them isn't right is why some stories with rape in them are even readable.

I like Caesar (Roses and Champange) his actions aren't excused, you can tell he's insane, and I'll be honest, Leewon doesn't have much love for him rather, the author has Leewon want to (in short) change him. IDK, this is just a mini rant of mine, I think about it often, I can enjoy Roses and Champange but not something like Paper Flower (Both have horrible MLs)

Real asf

REAL LITERALLY THANK YOU

Spit your shit twin cuz I was genuinely about to allocate time to read this, and I'm so happy about your warning because a story like this would've left me so frustrated the commenter's here would've probably had to read another comment like yours coming from my mouth(and judging from the dislikes it seems they don't play around like that)

Queen you ate you ATEEEE!!!

Honestly I usually understand outrage in this form, however in this case it seems very wildly unnecessary. Or atleast extremely overexaggerated. I remembered enjoying this story immensely, however after reading this comment I decided to come back to it And reread it to expand on anything I may have missed, or just glazed over naively. And while I guess I can see soem aspect of the dubious consenting when regarding the whole sleeping situation, anything else is a far far reach. Other than the fact that there is no ill intent/degradation from the ML's position, the MC is never outright refusing any of these encounters, nor is he distraught, in pain, or devastated during or afterwards. There is no violence, or even threatening as you claim there to be, from the ML in these situations either. If anything his reminding the mc of their contract is not meant to be a way to coerce him in a controlling/abusive manner, but instead keep a straightforward--business like approach to whatever they are doing. That was essentially the premise of what it was in the beginning anyways, a mutually beneficial transaction. And to add further on to that this mindset drives what are deemed to be the dubious consent interactions. Obviously the snake can understand no, and distress and whatsoever, however the mc did NOT display anything of the sorts, even in chapter 13, plus in the context of the story the ML was attempting to continue with his purpose-- which is to reproduce. A process which was hindered by the mc's work schedule-- which the ML was not familiar with the concept of. Other than addressing that, I looked at chapter 28 2 chapters before AND after, and I did not find any further dubious consent nor rape. I am in full support of calling those kinds of stories out, I mean I HATED low tide on twilight, champagne and roses, etc etc. However comparing this mc and ml, and this story to those is an extreme mis-evaluation. Please feel free to point out more specifically any other issues you found, I would be happy to open my mind to anything else I may have missed, but truly save your outrage for the stories that actually deserve it.

If you reread you would have seen the scene where they walk out of hospital together and when snake mentions their deal, something along the lines of keep your end of deal if you want your grandpa to become better (or something alike) and mc asks “Is that a threat?” To which the snake doesn’t respond. There doesn’t have to be violence for it to be bad, he is very passive and I mentioned it being a problem with HIS writing. Can you imagine anyone being passive in a situation where they’re wildly taken advantage of? I can and it’s not usually a normal situation. Like I mentioned, the mc feeds him (even going out of his way to deprive himself of meat so the snake can have his fill) and gives him shelter out of goodness of his heart which I find to be unnecessary because their deal is pretty established: save grandpa in exchange of heirs. I find their entire dynamic to be pretty weird. I mentioned that 28 not because there’s something, but because even until then there was no improvement. I already abolished more than half of this from my brain and I really don’t want to reread to refute some points. Now, lets address what you said about this being a far reach. I am sorry but to say there was no display of distress so the snake didn’t pick up on it sounds pretty stupid. I don’t know if you’re referring to distress from sex or distress from work, if it’s former yes he doesn’t but that’s not the point lol. He is passing out from work every single day, there is no way the snake is so oblivious that he can’t understand it. Whether he is putting it out or not, he is still feeding him everyday. This fucker clearly understands that he saved his life by giving him water and continued to do so by feeding him everyday but suddenly his sense of gratitude left through the back door. Again, just because he didn’t degrade him or have ill intent doesn’t mean his actions mean less. The coercion didn’t happen because he was asleep lmao. Complacency. Even in the mountains, he kept saying no, about how he is too strong to push off (which means he wanted him off but couldn’t get him to) this has happened a few other times too. Your mindset or your take basically implies that unless the victim is fighting tooth and nail it doesn’t count, forgetting that complacency is a valid response. Some aspects of Mcs behaviour is a flaw in his writing and his actions makes no sense to me. You can call it “reaching” or “exaggerating” I don’t really care, I didn’t like it and I expressed it. By that logic I could criticise you for enjoying something I find to be terrible but I’m not going to.

Now this perspective is something that I can agree with despite liking this story. I can see the whole complacency argument to a point, but its very subliminal and would be equivalent to sexual encounters in a very draining relationship with no love just surface sexual "obligation", ie., "Im doing this because I have to, but I dont have any particular feelings about it". I personally did see it differently from that, but your perspective is valid upon re-reading, andd I don't want to further argue on how my perspective differed in that respect. Also I do recognize the issue in the writing, its not a very fleshed out story--however any assumptions also cannot be made about the cognitive awareness of the ML in terms of the MC's exhaustion and lifestyle due to that. I know I made the first claim about that, however it's obviously very subjective given the lack a character quality the ML seems to have. I didnt want to imply that victims need to be fighting or be in lack of enjoyment for something to be considered sexual assault, however it is what you see in most BL nowadays, and while--due to its bad character/relationship structure--- I can see how it may carry a lense where the sexual encounters may not feel mutual, it's very underlying and depends on the readers perspective, A more appropriate example of this I feel would fall in stories like Alyosha(very trash) and others that I can't think of at the moment. Anyways, I do recognize that the victim does not need to be overtly denying or suffering, however that's how your original comment read and I thought it was an unfair evaluation due to how subjective the character actions are in this story regarding the interactions you described. For example, let's say in my mind I considered the MC to be a very lonely person who appreciated the MC being there despite his draining presence, and did not mind the sexual encounters whatsoever because he was appreciative of the ML and held much underlying affection for him. Now this was not my mindset, but this is one way I could have read it and never picked up on any dubious consentage, except for maybe in the sleeping scene. Obviously I dont want any naive readers believing SA is good or healthy, but I would rather that your reply to me was what you had said in your overall review so people would have taken it much easier and therefore would have considered this perspective before reading, instead of demonizing it completely.
Anyways, I'm just gonna end it here because I do tend to drag on, but feel free to message me with anything else(pretty sure theres a message thing on here), I do find your perspective interesting and I am open to further discussion, I just think you would have had an easier time if you expressed that your view was the result of writing that can display subliminal SA storylines as opposed to being so outright against it. I think many more would have agreed with you or opened their perspective to recognize these things more often!

I wrote that in a ragefit, it could be picked up on from how I have resorted to insulting people who defend rape. I did not mean to write a well thought out evaluation, rather I wanted to vent my frustration as I read because I did not have any other outlet to do so. I don’t mean to be rude but I genuinely cannot fully fathom the perspective you have of their dynamic, maybe to some extent I understand the loneliness and the yearning for a company, it is an interesting way to look at it but I don’t believe that is what the author had in mind. This such trope is something I have seen time and again with manhwa bottoms where they are complete pushovers against the tops. This guy is probably not fully fleshed out like the others but it’s there. It’s not a personality flaw, i think of it as the author’s incapability to develop a character. It could also be because I had high hopes and it got shattered that I got so pissed. My standards are quite high, even the andrew people praise isn’t the perfect man in my eyes. I prefer hetero manhwa ML’s, they tend to be well written even if the FMCs aren’t so. Whether this is how most BLs are or not doesn’t concern me, nor does it move me from the fact I have low tolerance of anything that are absolute greenflags or doesn’t have good (justifiable) character development, even so no character development will make me look away if the top or bottom was a rapist/coercer at one point of the story. But majorly I do understand where you’re coming from now, and I also enjoyed this conversation so don’t think of it as draggy. I am not sure about the message thingy since I don’t use this site often, but we can continue to talk here if we cant figure it out.