whatevermans's Topics (300)

Just curious, what do u mean by shaming people? So far in the latest chapter all of the art discussed was centered around political issues and the like, I don't see how there'd be much shaming outside of critiquing or attempting to bring to attention flaws in the larger systems like the government and justice system?

Yatora said that he felt ashamed after attending the exhibition. He also got massively guilt-tripped. That's not right. Do we need to learn about each and every war happening on the planet? Feel bad if we have more than our neighbor? We got it all shoved down our throats each day every day lately. And I don't see how it helps anyone at all.
Imagine all art, music, literature, cinema becoming war-themed. Sounds like hell.

But what’s the difference between being taught vs being guilt tripped? Yatora himself was just exposed to how much bigger the world is than him and his own personal struggles, and yes, that’s nothing to be ashamed of. But it’s disingenuous to say that these works are intended to guilt trip the audience

Art is expression, too. The artist can use it to cry out or to rage on, but they cannot control the reaction fo the viewer. As humans, we can connect through someones crying and the feeling of guilt comes from empathy, and the reflection of feeling priviledge comes from wanting to share it with someone whose relaity is digfetent. Its not necesarily art made to guilt trip others when it coems to war and social art. Its art that screams of pain, because they cannot keep holding back. Its beautiful and sad and human.

Imo it's way more nuanced than that. For example, Guernica is an excellent piece that's considered the most moving anti-war painting in the world, and yet it accomplishes its purpose in a truly powerful way without making you feel ashamed and guilty, and without being an in-your-face work that simply screams "PEOPLE ARE DYING OUT THERE YOU PIECE OF SHIT!!!!!!!!!" Art can and should (though not always of course) serve activism, but it shouldn't be JUST activism.
And also, when art burdens people without inspiring, it turns people away so it's counterproductive too. As you can see Yatora only got more spirited when Hashida told him that he too has a meaningful piece. He got mentally crushed at these exhibitions instead of getting inspired! So in the end he got caught between two fires - from one side it's the soulless art fair, and from the other a gazillion 'activism pieces' that scream "you are not enough and you are not doing enough and you should be ashamed for living a good life". Great!

I disagree. I think the shame Yatora has is a very natural one when someone is confronted with the reality of how privileged their situation is and it is a great motivation for him to connect with the issues that he didn’t think much about. It wasn’t him being guilt-tripped but him showing his empathy and reflecting on his place in the world outside of his immediate environment.

The scene about his art being praised wasn’t to inspire him after being “punched down” but to highlight how Yatora, who previously thought he was ignorant and removed from social issues, was actually observing and connected to aspects of society in his own way.

The art in the exhibition simply conveyed the harsh reality of marginalized people without sugar coating it. Nowhere did they criticize or punch down on people ignorant of their cause. And honestly artists who are affected by those circumstances shouldn’t be asked to be responsible for their audience’s mental state or emotions anyway. I believe it’s a very self-centered thing to demand of them.

Maybe I'm too sensitive but Guernica also made me feel ashamed and guilty, also powerless. I do not think the art pieces shown in the chapter were made with shaming in mind. To me it felt more like showing the artists own experiences and thoughts to show things around the world. Not every piece will inspire everyone, doesn't have to. But art should serve it's purpose to broaden your horizon, and sometimes the only way to do it is to make you uncomfortable. I do not think any of the highlighted pieces say "people are dying you piece of shit, you should stop being comfortable" I saw them more as "remember those who are dying in vain" the same way Guernica does. Sure using actual names and making a list of the dead is pretty on the nose, but to me Guernica was a symbol for the collective and this piece is to remind people of their individuality, that they are not just statistics. But at the end of the day everyone experiences art differently and there's no correct way to do so. I do agree with the gazillion activism pieces and both characters also acknowledged they weren't getting it (probably performative pieces) but the two that were highlighted felt much more nuanced. The grenade one I interpreted as even during war life goes on and the war still continues. Also the people who went to this fair knew it's going to be mainly activism pieces, there are people who like those. Rather than the artists fault id say it's more of the shock yatora got from sudden exposure. Sorry for the yap I thought Ur thoughts were fascinating and wanted to add my worldview too.

Ashamed Not in a you're living comfortably and you shouldn't way but I meant it evoked the same feelings in me as djd the other pieces. I also think to people living in the tiny Guernica it would've carried shame and guilt to. We are only able to look at it objectively cos we didn't experience this first hand

Thank you everyone for the responses. Especially bored_sloth, I really appreciate your input. I guess because recently I had to live for some time at the location where war drones could show up at any time and inflict damage, I'm perceiving this all a bit differently. But I'll think about it all more, keeping in mind your raised points.

Ofc! I understand and please stay safe!

Thank you! I'm back to safety now. I'm also an artist so I got a lot to reflect upon...

and bunny thank you for uploading, as usual

What are you talking about?

they think they are in love but in fact they are two trauma-bonded broken ppl, irl they would never spend that long in peace, it would be a shitshow all day every day like in the earlier chapters

Yes, they have problems, you're right, but that doesn't mean they can't be overcome. I don't know where you got the idea that they don't love each other. If you want to talk about real life, then they would never have separated like they did in the middle of the season because in real life the couple would try to talk and understand each other, avoiding all that conflict. But you know that this whole plot is precisely to create a fictional story, and that's why we saw this happen and it gives that impression. But they are in love, and that's a fact. Don't confuse silly plots and character personalities created to lengthen and differentiate the story from others with things from real life.

Realest shit ever. The mc fr needs someone better imo

You guys are too stupid to understand things, stop comparing plot devices created to lengthen stories with real-life issues.

That's such a shame, cuz unfortunately real life DOES reflect fiction in some shape or form. U need ur head to get out of the gutter if u can't accept the fact that the characters has clear issues that ppl have picked on. We do understand it, and even accept how toxic these two r for each other.

Doesn't mean that we don't also recognized how BAD it is, and how pitiful the mc is.
Also, it's ironic that ur calling me stupid, cuz did u fr think this type of relationship doesn't exist irl? How laughable.

Mind u, nobody said anything about the author's decision on how to engthen their story, it's the fact that we PITY the characters. Dumb asffff that's embarrassing.

it's understandable why they would do that but it just comes out poorly. imagine ppl are already waiting for proper updates and then an unfinished chapter with no initial disclaimer appears.